Is this even realistically possible?

[WESTY66]

Hi in December I bought a new to me van (it’s a keeper) and over the next couple of years I’m going to invest in it. I don’t know if it’s possible (I thought I read it somewhere) but here’s an idea of what I want to do.
Fit a 320w solar with the appropriate MPPT controller and an inverter big enough to power coffee machine and a few more gadgets. Now here’s the thing, can it be wired into the 240 socket loom so I can use any plug socket? I KNOW I can’t have lots of stuff on at same time or indeed heavy load it but I fancy the idea of being able to use any socket (which inverter would you recommend)? More to the point if I bought all this stuff is there any place round Yorkshire area to fit it?
Thanks Ady

 

[Jev88]

Explain what you want to "wire in" ?
Solar? Mppt Controller?
-answer no because they are typically 12V.

 

[DBK]

Yes you can, it's what I did. I set mine up using a relay which connects to either the EHU or inverter output. Mine defaults to the inverter but when EHU is connected the relay coil is energised and it swaps over. There is a good argument for doing it the other way. See the link in my signature.

 

[WESTY66]

Explain what you want to "wire in" ?
Solar? Mppt Controller?
-answer no because they are typically 12V.

Sorry I want to put big solar on roof with the MPPT controller to my TWO 110 GEL batteries, THEN fit an inverter to power ALL the sockets. It probably can’t be done and I’m talking out my backside (nothing new in that??).?

 

[pappajohn]

You could wire it to the existing sockets but as it would back feed the whole 230v system you would need to fit a normally closed rwlay between the sockets and fusebox otherwise you will be powering ALL 230v appliances.
The relay would have to be switched by the inverter.
You would also need an auto changeover switch between the hookup socket and fusebox triggered from the hookup to prevent both power sources to be used simultaneously.

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[Jev88]

Sorry I want to put big solar on roof with the MPPT controller to my TWO 110 GEL batteries, THEN fit an inverter to power ALL the sockets. It probably can’t be done and I’m talking out my backside (nothing new in that??).?

I know that you need thick and short cables from leisure to inverter to avoid drop/loss.

But I guess once you have that you could add more sockets afterwards.
HOWEVER, inverters hammer leisure batteries which is why we use 12v solutions when possible.

 

[Stealaway]

HOWEVER, inverters hammer leisure batteries which is why we use 12v solutions when possible.

No they dont - its common misconception. There is loss of maybe 10% when any appliances are powered at 230 Volts though inverters.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Sorry I want to put big solar on roof with the MPPT controller to my TWO 110 GEL batteries, THEN fit an inverter to power ALL the sockets. It probably can’t be done and I’m talking out my backside (nothing new in that??).?

If you search the posts, Techno did a series of threads on his rapido electrics, inverter and ehu switchovers, quite a comprehensive description at the time. May give you some pointers, it was a couple of years ago though.

 

[9526]

You can do as you ask (as others have said), however care must be taken to ensure you are not feeding “mains power” to your 240v system at the same time as “inverted power” (your inverter will be fighting the grid, and the grid will win!)

You can have an automatic switch, or manual change over switch to do this.

Remember to turn of your battery charger when on “inverted power” though as you will simply flatten your batteries (inverting power to charger, then converting back to 12v by charger etc etc etc)

Also turn of any water heater, electric hobs etc

Some people simply run a short hook up lead from inverter to input socket at side of van.

 

[Silver-Fox]

Would it not be easier to just have one dedicated socket for the inverter.

Possibly safer as well as at worst you’d forget to turn off the inverter.

Just a thought ?

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[Littlewheels]

If you search the posts, Techno did a series of threads on his rapido electrics, inverter and ehu switchovers, quite a comprehensive description at the time. May give you some pointers, it was a couple of years ago though.

I think your asking the impossible! No disrespect to the OP or your goodself but Sooooo many threads are repeated because members don’t or can’t be bothered to search the past topics and 90% of the time they have been well covered ,the information is already out there and the shame is the Technical topics can get tiresome and repetitive and often to the point you have the same topic running along side each other by different OP’s and members that do/can/did give enormously drift away.

 

[pappajohn]

No they dont - its common misconception. There is loss of maybe 10% when any appliances are powered at 230 Volts though inverters.

Yes they do.....
An appliance rated at 230v 230w will consume 1ah at 230v
To power the same item via an invert will consume 19ah + losses.

 

[Littlewheels]

I must add that the Member you mention and gave so much to MotorhomeFun rarely comes on now,a perfect example.

 

[pappajohn]

I think your asking the impossible! No disrespect to the OP or your goodself but Sooooo many threads are repeated because members don’t or can’t be bothered to search the past topics and 90% of the time they have been well covered ,the information is already out there and the shame is the Technical topics can get tiresome and repetitive and often to the point you have the same topic running along side each other by different OP’s and members that do/can/did give enormously drift away.

But if it wasn't for members reiterating what's already been said the forum would be little more than a reference library.

 

[WESTY66]

I think your asking the impossible! No disrespect to the OP or your goodself but Sooooo many threads are repeated because members don’t or can’t be bothered to search the past topics and 90% of the time they have been well covered ,the information is already out there and the shame is the Technical topics can get tiresome and repetitive and often to the point you have the same topic running along side each other by different OP’s and members that do/can/did give enormously drift away.

I take on board the search thingy, BUT I’m afraid I don’t have a great success rate with the search button, probably because I’m lacking the correct terminology for the questions I ask. Must try harder!!
And I’m gonna stop watching @funflair’s Morelo video. My wiring is NOT the same????

My Sonic is not a Morelo
My Sonic is not a Morelo
My Sonic is not a Morelo
My So........... You get the picture?????

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[Jimbohorlicks]

I must add that the Member you mention and gave so much to MotorhomeFun rarely comes on now,a perfect example.

Methinks he has done all the conversions, additions, that you could possibly do to a MH and has taken up other hobbies. I think the last post was one about buying brandy and having it delivered to the UK. Maybe he has "retired" and is slowly getting through it. Lol.

 

[Stealaway]

Would it not be easier to just have one dedicated socket for the inverter.

Possibly safer as well as at worst you’d forget to turn off the inverter.

Just a thought ?

Just what I do. I have a pair of sockets mainly for the 230v TV and soundbar supplied by a separate lead simply plugged into the inverter. I turn the inverter off by a 12V battery isolator switch when it not needed. All the other sockets are left on the circuit to the EHU.

 

[deleted-member02]

Vanbitz will sort you out, costs a few quid though

Victron Phoenix Compact Inverter 12/2000 Non Technical - Van Bitz

www.vanbitz.com

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

I take on board the search thingy, BUT I’m afraid I don’t have a great success rate with the search button, probably because I’m lacking the correct terminology for the questions I ask. Must try harder!!???

I'm not good at links but if you type in "inverter" into the search title block and Techno in the member block. You will find what you are looking for, Sept 2016,or around then. It was a very comprehensive post with lots of photos, I think there were separate batteries for the inverter from solar panels and other hab batteries, several switch overs as I recall, but Andy ran lots of 240 electrical stuff in his van. He is an electrician by the way.

 

[romany]

I think your asking the impossible! No disrespect to the OP or your goodself but Sooooo many threads are repeated because members don’t or can’t be bothered to search the past topics and 90% of the time they have been well covered ,the information is already out there and the shame is the Technical topics can get tiresome and repetitive and often to the point you have the same topic running along side each other by different OP’s and members that do/can/did give enormously drift away.

Maybe more experienced/older forum members could put up the links to those previous threads + tend to agree with Pappajohn forum would just be a reference library and how would we show off how clever we all are

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[Littlewheels]

But if it wasn't for members reiterating what's already been said the forum would be little more than a reference library.

Perhaps, but isn’t that the past topics are still available for the purpose of reference,me thinks a few members are addicted to commenting on every topic thinking there contribution is needed as they know best and the cycle begins again.

 

[Littlewheels]

Maybe more experienced/older forum members could put up the links to those previous threads + tend to agree with Pappajohn forum would just be a reference library and how would we show off how clever we all are

I’m not savvy on this but Jim might be in that topics could be properly listed/referenced and I’m sure anyone looking for information wouldn’t simply research the Forum find what they need and then vanish without comment or in deed offering guidance themselves later.
Nothings forever,and as technology progresses the information harvested now by many informative members will be outdated, we do not want them Googling and then posting ,new more informed people will assist so the help and guidance will still continue,just saying.

 

[Raul]

Westy66
What you’re asking is possible, and that’s how a professional inverter works on boats RVs etc. That’s exactly what I got fitted on my van.
A inverter charger, that sincronises with the grid and supplies the hole 230v circuits, either EHU if is plugged in , or inverter power if is on. It has its own automatic transfer switch and works seamlessly as a UPS or power assist if grid is week.
The inverter is a victron multiplus compact, you can go for multiplus , Quattro or other make that is designed for grid AC in and battery power.

 

[Raul]

Your main hurdle will be battery storage. Two gel batts will not cut it.

 

[Jev88]

No they dont - its common misconception. There is loss of maybe 10% when any appliances are powered at 230 Volts though inverters.

Okay. So have you ever tried plugging something like a hairdryer in an inverter and seeing how long the battery lasts?
Not long, I can confirm from my own tests on the workbench.

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[Raul]

That because your battery is well undersized for the load you draw

 

[Raul]

A good inverter on 12v can go as high as 93% efficiency. So for every 100w of load, will tax you a additional 7-8w, that’s all. There is another consuption : no load or stand by consuption, mine is a 12w, but on search mode (if it’s got that feature) it can take as little as 2w of power, until it detects a load.

 

[Jev88]

A good inverter on 12v can go as high as 93% efficiency. So for every 100w of load, will tax you a additional 7-8w, that’s all. There is another consuption : no load or stand by consuption, mine is a 12w, but on search mode (if it’s got that feature) it can take as little as 2w of power, until it detects a load.

Perhaps we are talking cross purposes.
I am not talking efficiency of the inverter......

The 12-volt battery is just one twentieth of the level of mains voltage (240V) so, for the same power, the amps drawn at 12 volts will be twenty times as much. Hence my assumption that inverter driven devices out a heavy strain on the leisure battery?

 

[Raul]

Makes no difference if you draw 100a at 12v or 5a at 230v. The power is the same. Where it comes from is the bottleneck of supply( battery).
If you pull 100a at 12v or
You pull 5a at 230v , the battery is under the same draw 100a.
The point is, when you run a inverter, you tend to draw more power because the inverter CAN, but the battery CAN’T supply at that rate.
As a rule of thumb you can draw 10% of its rated capacity.
A 100ah batt can supply 10a at 12v=120w or 0,5a at 230v=120w.

 

[Stealaway]

Okay. So have you ever tried plugging something like a hairdryer in an inverter and seeing how long the battery lasts?
Not long, I can confirm from my own tests on the workbench.

A 1000 watt hair dryer will demand about 100amps from your batteries at 230v. It makes little different which voltage -- it's the Watts that flatten batteries

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