Is the Butane in gas bottles 100% butane? (1 Viewer)

Douglas

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Does anyone know if the butane in gas bottles is 100% butane or is it a mixture of propane and butane.

I recently bought a local bottle as a backup to the bulk storage and and the fridge flame in not correct on this gas and I believe that it is 100% butane were as the butane in the UK is a mixture.

Doug
 

scotjimland

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Hi Doug

As I understand it, Butane is 100% butane, likewise Propane is 100% propane.
I presume you filled the bulk storage tank with LPG ? .. which is a mix of butane and propane.. depending on country and season the ratio is different and changes.. ie it has more propane in winter.

You may be able to adjust the air / gas mix to get a better, cleaner flame.. when I run on bottled propane rather than LPG I get a sootier flame ..

hth

Jim
 
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Douglas

Douglas

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Ok, more detail.

In the UK,Portugal and Spain the butane gives no problem but in Tenerife the butane is making so much soot that I have to clean the fridge chimney every 10 days, and as there is no autogas in Tenerife it has become a problem.

Doug

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madbluemad

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Hi Doug

The atomic structure of Butane is diferent from that of Propane and so they are both two totally different gases.
It may be that in the manufacture of the batch of gas that you are using enough care hasn't been taken and there are trace elements that should have been filtered therefore giving you a problem.
Dont suppose this hepls you much but its a try.

Jim, dont know what you mean by LPG, LPG is just an anacronym for Low Pressure Gas and could be either propane or butane but its unlikley to be both. Autogas is propane.
I'm sure you will put me right
Cheers

Jim:Smile:
 
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Campingaz is butane in bottles but a mixture of propane and butane in the smaller canisters used for stoves and lights etc.
 

scotjimland

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Jim, dont know what you mean by LPG, LPG is just an anacronym for Low Pressure Gas and could be either propane or butane but its unlikley to be both. Autogas is propane.
I'm sure you will put me right
Cheers

Jim:Smile:

:roflmto::roflmto:

Hi Jim

LPG = Liquid Petroleum Gas = Auto Gas, I think that's a trade name but it's the same stuff

It is a mix of butane and propane , IIRC about 80 % butane 20% propane, but the ratio varies from country to country and by season..

Another interesting fact, both are odourless, the 'stench' ( yes it's called stench) is added at the refinery.

One of the problems with LPG, if it's used in sub zero temperatures, the butane content stops boiling off and it remains in the tank until the next fill, subsequent re fillings will get smaller as more butane collects in the bottom of the tank.. it will collect and stay there until the ambient is warm enough to allow it to boil off...

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MicknPat

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Jim,

I'm sure that someone over here (USA) told me that American RVs cookers, hobs, fridges and funaces should ONLY be run on porpane and NOT butane, is this true?

Mick
 

madbluemad

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Hi Jim

LPG = Liquid Petroleum Gas = Auto Gas, I think that's a trade name but it's the same stuff

It is a mix of butane and propane , IIRC about 80 % butane 20% propane, but the ratio varies from country to country and by season..

Another interesting fact, both are odourless, the 'stench' ( yes it's called stench) is added at the refinery.

One of the problems with LPG, if it's used in sub zero temperatures, the butane content stops boiling off and it remains in the tank until the next fill, subsequent re fillings will get smaller as more butane collects in the bottom of the tank.. it will collect and stay there until the ambient is warm enough to allow it to boil off...

Woops, LPG= Liquid Petroleum Gas.

We have a Calor Gas place down the road from us and I went down there to ask them a few questions, one being what is Autogas.

They absolutley assured me that Autogas is Propane and that the gas in the Autogas pump is exactley the same as the gas thats in the Propane cylinders.

I'm rapidly starting to lose the point that I was trying to make now but in the interests of my education I'll crack on.

If Liquid Peroleum Gas is a mixture of propane and butane and Autogas is Propane how can this be calassified as LPG. Even though it is?.

Maybe I should bail out of this one Jim. Give myself a chance to figure out what I'm ramblin on about. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Cheers

Jim :thumb:
 

madbluemad

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Jim,

I'm sure that someone over here (USA) told me that American RVs cookers, hobs, fridges and funaces should ONLY be run on porpane and NOT butane, is this true?

Mick

Hi Mick
Thats my understanding of it. My owners manual tells me that under no circumstances should butane be used. Thats what drew me to this post.

Cheers

Jim :thumb:

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scotjimland

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Jim,

I'm sure that someone over here (USA) told me that American RVs cookers, hobs, fridges and funaces should ONLY be run on porpane and NOT butane, is this true?

Mick

Hi Mick

I can only go on my experience, 'needs must is a great master' ..

rightly or wrongly I've ran on

Butane, (several months in Spain and Morocco),
Propane. (several months in the UK) and
LPG (touring France) ..

so I don't know if it's true or not .. maybe Dunc or Lynda will enlighten us :Smile:

but you have no need to run on pure Butane.. LPG or Propane is available in most places.
 
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scotjimland

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Woops, LPG= Liquid Petroleum Gas.

We have a Calor Gas place down the road from us and I went down there to ask them a few questions, one being what is Autogas.

They absolutley assured me that Autogas is Propane and that the gas in the Autogas pump is exactley the same as the gas thats in the Propane cylinders.

I'm rapidly starting to lose the point that I was trying to make now but in the interests of my education I'll crack on.

If Liquid Peroleum Gas is a mixture of propane and butane and Autogas is Propane how can this be calassified as LPG. Even though it is?.

Maybe I should bail out of this one Jim. Give myself a chance to figure out what I'm ramblin on about. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Cheers

Jim :thumb:


When in doubt.. get the Wiki out :roflmto:

Liquefied petroleum gas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

small extract

Varieties of LPG bought and sold include mixes that are primarily propane, mixes that are primarily butane, and the more common, mixes including both propane (60%) and butane (40%), depending on the season—in winter more propane,
 
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Douglas

Douglas

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Hi Doug

Jim, dont know what you mean by LPG, LPG is just an anacronym for Low Pressure Gas and could be either propane or butane but its unlikley to be both. Autogas is propane.
I'm sure you will put me right
Cheers

Jim:Smile:

And I always thought it stood for Liquid Petroleum Gas

Doug

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Douglas

Douglas

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I will start the thead again

I will Start the thread again as no one actualy addressed what I wanted to know!!!
______________________________________________________________________



Ok, more detail.

Does anyone know if the butane in gas bottles is 100% butane or is it a mixture of propane and butane.

I recently bought a local bottle as a backup to the bulk storage and and the fridge flame in not correct on this gas and I believe that it is 100% butane were as the butane in the UK is a mixture.

Then I went on to say


In the UK,Portugal and Spain the butane gives no problem but in Tenerife the butane is making so much soot that I have to clean the fridge chimney every 10 days, and as there is no autogas in Tenerife it has become a problem.

Doug

So, Does any one know if the butane gas as sold in bottles in the UK is 100% butane or is it a mixture of propane and butane, please try and stick to the thread as it is important to me, if you don't know please do not post, thank you.

Doug..
 

madbluemad

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I will Start the thread again as no one actualy addressed what I wanted to know!!!
______________________________________________________________________





So, Does any one know if the butane gas as sold in bottles in the UK is 100% butane or is it a mixture of propane and butane, please try and stick to the thread as it is important to me, if you don't know please do not post, thank you.

Doug..

Its Butane and its a pleasure
 

scotjimland

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I will Start the thread again as no one actualy addressed what I wanted to know!!!
______________________________________________________________________





So, Does any one know if the butane gas as sold in bottles in the UK is 100% butane or is it a mixture of propane and butane, please try and stick to the thread as it is important to me, if you don't know please do not post, thank you.

Doug..

With all due respect, I answered in the first post..

Butane is 100% butane, likewise Propane is 100% propane.

but will respect your wishes ..

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:roflmto::roflmto:

One of the problems with LPG, if it's used in sub zero temperatures, the butane content stops boiling off and it remains in the tank until the next fill, subsequent re fillings will get smaller as more butane collects in the bottom of the tank.. it will collect and stay there until the ambient is warm enough to allow it to boil off...

According to what I have read the two gases mix freely together, and the overall boiling point decreases with the increase in the Butane content.

Olley
 
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Douglas

Douglas

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From the site below I found that Butane is infact a mixture of gasses and I am now quite satisfied that my particular problems with my fridge are due to the gas in Tenerife being of a different mixture that that of Europe.



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Commercial butane contains mainly N-butane, isobutene and butene as well as some propane, pentane and odorant. This product typically exhibits the following average physical properties:

* boiling point: between -8° C to 0° C at 1.0133 bar
* flammability: between 1.8 and 9.0 % of butane with air

When stored (either in tanks or in cylinders), butane exists in both a gaseous and a liquid state, with the pressure of the gas being a function of its temperature (see table 3). For example, at O° C, the pressure is 0.4 bar; at 15° C, it is 1.2 bar. When gas is extracted, the balance is disrupted and the liquid begins to bubble. The heated needed for this vaporization is provided by the combination of the liquid and the reservoir, which reduces the temperature and causes a thermal exchange with the ambient air until the balance is re-established.
 

scotjimland

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From the site below I found that Butane is infact a mixture of gasses and I am now quite satisfied that my particular problems with my fridge are due to the gas in Tenerife being of a different mixture that that of Europe.



Link Removed

Commercial butane contains mainly N-butane, isobutene and butene as well as some propane, pentane and odorant. This product typically exhibits the following average physical properties:.

Doug
I doubt very much if Tenerife has a refinery .. in which case the Butane will come from Europe in bulk tankers.. or perhaps in bottles .. but it's likely that any gas coming in bulk could be contaminated by other gases, eg propane that has been carried in the same tank.

As far as Butane goes, I did say it was 100%, obviously it's not 100%. I meant it's not deliberately mixed with propane.. and there will always be traces of other gases, distillation is an expensive and lengthy process, and to it get it 100% pure would be nigh on impossible and not required to meet the standards to class it as Butane. Only hospital and scientific gasses are refined to the nth degree and said to be 99.99% pure.. this is reflected in the cost.

Bulk containers at refineries are used for different gasses at different times so contamination is going to happen but for all practical purposes it isn't a problem..

So, the Butane in Tenerife may well have more contamination than the same gas in Europe.. but it's not a deliberate blend with propane..

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acdcdave

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Doug

Having done my 25 years in Shell including a fair bit of time in the LPG area my thoughts are as follows. Firstly, as you surmise Butane LPG is usually a cocktail with a predominance of C4's particularly butane and butene but with a compositional spread from lighter C2(Ethane) up to around heavier C8 (Octane) the 'heavier ends' are in solution in the bulk propane. When you use the bottle, the lighter stuff tends to evaporate first and the heaviest last. This accounts for the greater smell when the bottle dies as the stenching agent e.g. mercaptan is itself fairly heavy. So the flame will vary somewhat even during the life of the bottle. It may that your new bottle had a lot of light stuff in which was going early on. It's unusual to have pure gases as LPG's are extracted from gas fields or the refinery process as a cocktail which is then partially refined to e.g. the British Standard spec for commercial propane or butane. Pure gases are used in analytical labs but are very expensive due to the additional purification steps required.

Hope this helps, Regards Dave
 

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