Irish passport (1 Viewer)

[Steve devon]

Good morning, being the proud owner of an Irish passport can I travel for more than 90 days in Europe? Also my dear wife does not have an Irish passport , but as we are married can she also travel more than 90 days piggybacking, so to speak, off of my Irish passport? Thank you

 

[Boris7]

Yes you can, but I don’t think your wife can (Like to know for sure as I’m in the same position)

 

[Steve devon]

Yes you can, but I don’t think your wife can (Like to know for sure as I’m in the same position)

I’ve heard a lot of rumours, saying she can , just want to be sure

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[Boris7]

I’ve asked Irish Community Services, but everyone seems to give a different answer

 

[PJGWiltshire]

I posted this on the thread " Travel to Spain and Portugal '

marchie said:
If one of you has an Irish passport, you can do the 6 months within the EU as long as the Irish passport holder is present throughout. If that person has to return to UK [e.g. family emergency] then the British passport holder only has right to stay for the balance of the 90 days, IIRC. The EU clarified the arrangements about 2 weeks ago and published the Regs, along with several very helpful examples of how to calculate your stay. Link below



Specifics on page 17 para 2.1.2

Steve [UK Passport] & Elaine [she of the Irish Passport]
Click to expand...

Indeed very useful

1. 2.1.2. In the case of third-country nationals who are family members of EU, EEA and CH citizens, they have the right of residence in a Member State for a period of up to

three months if they are in possession of a valid passport and are accompanying or joining the EU, EEA or CH citizen, without any limitation to 90 days in a 180-day period.
To be noted that, third-country nationals who are family members of EU, EEA and CH citizens are entitled to accompany or join the EU, EEA or CH citizen for consecutive periods of up to three months per Schengen States without any conditions or formalities (except the need to have a visa for third-country nationals from a country subject to a visa requirement).
. When the family member travels on his/her own, the normal regime concerning the length of the short stay will (re)start to apply, as the conditions for benefiting from the facilitations concerning the free movement of the EU, EEA and CH citizens and their families are not met anymore.
The previous stays performed in the area without internal border controls accompanying or joining the EU, EEA or CH citizen should not be taken into account for the sake of the calculation of the compliance with the 90/180-day rule which is applicable to the short stay only.
*Examples
An Indian national married to a French citizen may accompany his French spouse to Germany for three months, Spain for two months and Italy for three months, thus staying in the area without internal border controls for a total consecutive period of eight months.
A Japanese citizen is married with an Estonian citizen and has never come to the EU before. The Japanese citizen accompanies his Estonian spouse to Italy for one month. Just after that month, the Estonian spouse leaves Italy and returns to Japan to work. The Japanese citizen can remain alone for another 90 days (the limit of 90 days in any 180-day applies).
A Chinese citizen married to a Swedish citizen spends alone, for business purposes, 15 days in Austria. The Swedish citizen then joins him and they spend one month in Portugal. Just after that month, the Swedish spouse leaves the EU. The Chinese citizen can remain alone for the remaining 75 days in the 180-day period (the limit of 90 days in any 180-day
18
period applies, but the stay performed together with the EU citizen should not be counted (in this example, the one month period) when assessing the respect of the limit of 90 days in any 180-day period.).

 

[PJGWiltshire]

Yes you can, but I don’t think your wife can (Like to know for sure as I’m in the same position)

see my reply above

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[Steve devon]

Herself found this on europa.eu which basically says the same thing........I think

Travelling in the EU with your non-EU family members​

Under EU rules, you have the right to travel together with your core family members (non-EU spouse, children, dependent parents or dependent grandparents) to an EU country other than the one you are a national of. If you have moved to another EU country, they can also join you there. These rules also apply to your non-EU registered partner if the country they are travelling to considers registered partnerships as equivalent to marriage.

Other non-EU extended family members - such as siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, as well as your non-EU registered partner (in countries where registered partnerships are not considered as equivalent to marriage) - may under certain conditions be entitled to have their entry facilitated when travelling together with you of when joining you in another EU country. EU countries do not automatically have to grant this right but they do at least have to consider the request.

Your non-EU family members must carry a valid passport at all times and, depending on the country they are from, they may also have to show an entry visa at the border.

There are a number of countries (see Annex II) whose nationals do not need a visa to visit the EU for three months or less. The list of countries whose nationals require visas to travel to Ireland differs slightly from other EU countries.

Contact the consulate or embassy of the country you are travelling to well in advance to find out which documents your non-EU family member will be asked to present at the border.

Read more about your non-EU family members' residence rights if they move with you to another EU country.

 

[Boris7]

1. 2.1.2. In the case of third-country nationals who are family members of EU, EEA and CH citizens, they have the right of residence in a Member State for a period of up to

three months if they are in possession of a valid passport and are accompanying or joining the EU, EEA or CH citizen, without any limitation to 90 days in a 180-day period.

this appears to say your wife can only stay 3 months, but others say she can stay as long as she likes, so long as your with her.

An Indian national married to a French citizen may accompany his French spouse to Germany for three months, Spain for two months and Italy for three months, thus staying in the area without internal border controls for a total consecutive period of eight months.

This seems to say she can stay as long as your in the EU

On ICS they seem to think there are different restrictions by country ^ Germany 3 months, Spain 2 months, Italy 3 months etc...

My own thoughts are to do a short trip first, go to French Immergration and ask them.

 

[PJGWiltshire]

The document is guidance to EU border force. Like everything with the EU they have written a directive down but in practice impossible to govern. So yes EU National can leave their home country with spouse who is non EU passport holder. Upto three months in one country in the EU then move onto another for three months and on and on and in. Now as there is no border control how are they going to know how long you have been in the country for. I now interpret it that as to be so long as you are with your spouse you can stay as long as you like. The only challenge that could be if you have say entered through France. Your Spouse passport in my case UK would be stamped and dated. Spend 100 days in France then get stopped by authorities. Could I prove I had been out of France after 90 days. Who is to say after I entered France via say Calais Iwe went to Belgium for a while. So it’s impossible to police criss border. So now having had this guidance pointed out long term travel with a EU National should not be an issue. Coujd see some quick marriages coming up fir some who have lived in Sin for years

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[PJGWiltshire]

A

 

[Pooh]

I believe this was posted on another motorhome site and as my wife has an Irish passport allows me to stay in Europe and have the "advantages" of an EU citizen:

Don't Let Schengen Ruin Your European Holiday of a Lifetime

Learn about Schengen rules, the countries that are in Schengen, and how to extend your holiday and stay within the boundaries.

www.travel-cook-eat.com

 

[Carpmart]

Good morning, being the proud owner of an Irish passport can I travel for more than 90 days in Europe? Also my dear wife does not have an Irish passport , but as we are married can she also travel more than 90 days piggybacking, so to speak, off of my Irish passport? Thank you

My wife and I are in exactly the same position, all be it inverted, she has the Irish passport. My ‘interpretation’ is that provided I am always travelling with her, I am not regarded as third country national. She and I are then ‘only’ governed by the same rules that exist for all EU nationals staying for 90 days in each others counties. The 90/180 rule does not apply. I intend to keep any receipt etc that can show I didn’t outstay the 90 days in any one state, just as evidence at EU border exit and if required.

I hope I am correct with all this and will test Jan - May next year!

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[Steve devon]

Herself has just instructed me to post that she was told you should take a certified copy of your marriage certificate and also if the woman has changed her name, a certified copy of her birth certificate so the names match on both.this only makes sense if the wife is English

 

[gus-lopez]

Good morning, being the proud owner of an Irish passport can I travel for more than 90 days in Europe? Also my dear wife does not have an Irish passport , but as we are married can she also travel more than 90 days piggybacking, so to speak, off of my Irish passport? Thank you

Yes

1. 2.1.2. In the case of third-country nationals who are family members of EU, EEA and CH citizens, they have the right of residence in a Member State for a period of up to

three months if they are in possession of a valid passport and are accompanying or joining the EU, EEA or CH citizen, without any limitation to 90 days in a 180-day period.

this appears to say your wife can only stay 3 months, but others say she can stay as long as she likes, so long as your with her.

Yes it does appear to say that but it is very badly written.
What it means is that like any national she can only be in ONE EU state for a maximum of 90 days. that is why it goes on to state" without any limitation to 90 days in a 180-day period."

 

[marchie]

*Examples
An Indian national married to a French citizen may accompany his French spouse to Germany for three months, Spain for two months and Italy for three months, thus staying in the area without internal border controls for a total consecutive period of eight months.

This is one of the examples to demonstrate that an a 3rd country national can stay longer than the 90 days in 180 days Rule, PROVIDED that they accompany an EU partner/spouse. The 3/2/3 months is merely illustrative.

The Regs provide anothe example where the EU citizen has to leave the 3rd country national:

A Japanese citizen is married with an Estonian citizen and has never come to the EU before. The Japanese citizen accompanies his Estonian spouse to Italy for one month. Just after thatmonth, the Estonian spouse leaves Italyand returns to Japan to work. The Japanese citizen can remain alone for another 90 days (the limit of 90 days in any 180-day applies).

The last example covers a 3rd country national who starts a solo stay, is then joined by the spouse who then clears off again. Note that the 3rd country national reverts to the balance of the 90 days stay, BUT the joint stay DOES NOT count for '90 days in any 180 days' calculation, very useful in eliminating a month of 'retrospective' deduction of entitlement. E.g. Solo stay starts 17th Jan so 15 days finishes on 31st Jan. Portugal stay finishes 2nd Mar to use 30 days, then solo stay 30 days in Mar [2nd Mar counts twice under part of day Rule when you transfer from joint to solo & vice versa], 30 days in Apr, and 15 days in May.

Solo return trip later on EXCLUDES previous joint Portugal stay so new solo trip on 8 Aug does not look back to 10th February for 180 days start of stay entitlement. 17th Jan to 31st Jan solo trip has expired, and Portugal 30 days joint trip not counted; so 'countback period' starts 2nd Mar. So, 16 days Aug solo stay permissible, even though the 3rd country national will have spent 120 days in preceding 180 days.

Had the 3rd country national been a solo traveler throughout, the 17 Jan stay would have had to finish by 14 Apr [90 days] instead of 15 May; but the next solo trip on 8 Aug would give a new 90 days solo stay period [confirmed with the Schengen Calculator]! The Calculator doesn't appear to cope with the 'Joint Stay Period', it reported a 12 days overstay using the Joint Stay dates!

A Chinese citizen married to a Swedish citizen spends alone, for business purposes, 15 days in Austria. The Swedish citizen then joins him and they spend one month in Portugal. Just after that month, the Swedish spouse leaves the EU. The Chinese citizen can remain alone for the remaining 75 days in the 180-day period (the limit of 90 days in any 180-day period applies, but the stay performed together with the EU citizen should not be counted (in this example, the one month period) when assessing the respect of the limit of 90 days in any 180-day period.)

All a bit bizarre. Hope the Schengen Calculator is updated to cope with Joint Stays!

Steve

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[marchie]

*Examples
An Indian national married to a French citizen may accompany his French spouse to Germany for three months, Spain for two months and Italy for three months, thus staying in the area without internal border controls for a total consecutive period of eight months.

This is one of the examples to demonstrate that an a 3rd country national can stay longer than the 90 days in 180 days Rule, PROVIDED that they accompany an EU partner/spouse. The 3/2/3 months is merely illustrative.

The Regs provide anothe example where the EU citizen has to leave the 3rd country national:

A Japanese citizen is married with an Estonian citizen and has never come to the EU before. The Japanese citizen accompanies his Estonian spouse to Italy for one month. Just after thatmonth, the Estonian spouse leaves Italyand returns to Japan to work. The Japanese citizen can remain alone for another 90 days (the limit of 90 days in any 180-day applies).

The last example covers a 3rd country national who starts a solo stay, is then joined by the spouse who then clears off again. Note that the 3rd country national reverts to the balance of the 90 days stay, BUT the joint stay DOES NOT count for '90 days in any 180 days' calculation, very useful in eliminating a month of 'retrospective' deduction of entitlement. E.g. Solo stay starts 17th Jan so 15 days finishes on 31st Jan. Portugal stay finishes 2nd Mar to use 30 days, then solo stay 30 days in Mar [2nd Mar counts twice under part of day Rule when you transfer from joint to solo & vice versa], 30 days in Apr, and 15 days in May.

Solo return trip later on EXCLUDES previous joint Portugal stay so new solo trip on 8 Aug does not look back to 10th February for 180 days start of stay entitlement. 17th Jan to 31st Jan solo trip has expired, and Portugal 30 days joint trip not counted; so 'countback period' starts 2nd Mar. So, 16 days Aug solo stay permissible, even though the 3rd country national will have spent 120 days in preceding 180 days.

Had the 3rd country national been a solo traveler throughout, the 17 Jan stay would have had to finish by 14 Apr [90 days] instead of 15 May; but the next solo trip on 8 Aug would give a new 90 days solo stay period [confirmed with the Schengen Calculator]! The Calculator doesn't appear to cope with the 'Joint Stay Period', it reported a 12 days overstay using the Joint Stay dates!

A Chinese citizen married to a Swedish citizen spends alone, for business purposes, 15 days in Austria. The Swedish citizen then joins him and they spend one month in Portugal. Just after that month, the Swedish spouse leaves the EU. The Chinese citizen can remain alone for the remaining 75 days in the 180-day period (the limit of 90 days in any 180-day period applies, but the stay performed together with the EU citizen should not be counted (in this example, the one month period) when assessing the respect of the limit of 90 days in any 180-day period.)

All a bit bizarre. Hope the Schengen Calculator is updated to cope with Joint Stays!

Steve

Update:

To get the Schengen Calculator to work, ignore the dates of the joint travel and enter the dates of the first solo trip and the proposed stay and the Calculator will produce both the 180 days and 90 days periods!

Steve

 

[DerryW]

Brilliant news