Inverters... Just stand alone or light up your MOHO sockets? (1 Viewer)

[davidathomas42]

One of my upgrades on the list is an inverter so I can charge my laptop when off grid. Another item would be my Electric Skateboard as thats primary transport for me but that does have a 99wh Lithium Battery so might have to look at that later...

Anyway do people have these things wired up so it makes your motorhome plug sockets live all the time (or when the inverter is switched on)

Or do people just mount an inverter mounted somewhere convenient to be able to plug into it?

When ever I look at units they always seem to have sockets built in the side and not an option to wire into your existing circuitry.

 

[Bobby22]

It might not be practical to 'plumb' in your inverter. Maybe one socket mounted somewhere for convenience. Long periods of inverter use are not very practical, most will use them as they are travelling, unless you are @Robert Clark and have a massive battery bank..........ie 6 x leisure batteries.

 

[Wissel]

I'm planning on having an inverter feed all sockets in the van, but with a changeover switch to swap between it and EHU.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[stewartwebr]

It really depends on your requirements and budget. Systems range from small inverters which plug into your 12 volt socket to expensive (very) which powers all the vehicle sockets, can synchronise to the mains hook up using part hook up and part batteries to provide additional power if hook-up has insufficient power. You need to decide what best fits your needs and wallet. If you do design a system just ensure you have means of turning the inverter off during periods of no use as it will still consume valuable power.

 

[Linda and Steph]

If its just your laptop why not look for a 12 volt adapter? Using an inverter to take 12v up to 240v then back down to whatever your lappy needs (9v - 16v) will waste a lot power. What make / model laptop do you have?

 

[funflair]

Ours is a 2kw wired into the van circuits via an automatic changeover but missing out the battery charger, suits us as we use all or any of the sockets around the van when it is on, not all at the same time though and you do have to be a bit disciplined as it wouldn't run the heating so you need to make sure that is on gas.

Martin

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Mr Chrysalis]

I have a 240V outlet and a double 12 V outlet behind the TV. The TV and satellite dish are 12V; the Sky Box is 240V. I have mounted a 300W Pure Sine Wave inverter behind the TV. It plugs into the 12V outlet. The 240V side of the inverter is connected to a double 240 V socket outlet which also had 2 USB sockets by a short trailing lead from the 240V socket on the inverter. The SkyBox and a 240 WiFi router are plugged into this double socket. When I am on EHU the Double socket is plugged into the the 240V outlet and the Inverter is switched off. When not on EHU the Double socket is plugged into the inverter. I could also use the double socket for a laptop if I wanted to. This works for me. I could not afford a PSW 3kW inverter; neither from a cash nor leisure battery capacity. If I could, I would wire it in to all sockets on a switchover so I could use the Tassimo coffee machine.

 

[Two on Tour]

Our 1000 watt pure sine wave inverter is positioned very near to the leisure batteries to keep the 12 volt leads short but in an normally unusable space under our seating so as not to use up valuable storage space.
It has two 240 volt sockets mounted in the inverter casing one of which is not easy to get to so I have this one permanently plugged in and cabled to a 240 socket with a flip up cover flap to denote that it's the inverter and fitted just above a 240 EHU socket. This one is in a convenient for Yvette to use for her hair dryer when we are not on EHU. The other socket outlet on the inverter can be got at fairly easily.
Where we can we use the inverter to charge the laptop and bike batteries when on the move.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Mine's standalone but hardly ever use it, perhaps half a dozen times in three years. I keep thinking about ripping it out to save the weight.

We don't have any 230v appliances so don't really need it. It's only ever an overflow phone charger when we have a group of us and more phones than 12v/USB outlets.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[peterc10]

We only use our 2000/4000W modified sine wave converter for drying my wife's hair. Everything else we use 12v for, including shaver, laptop, ipad, phones, TV, charging batteries etc.

I fitted the inverter myself and wired it into one existing socket which is used solely for it. Wired via a standard plug into the inverter and fitted an in line RCD device for safety. When we want to use the socket I just switch on the inverter, check the RCD and plug in the hairdryer.

 

[JeanLuc]

I have a 150 watt psw inverter that is wired direct to the batteries with a relay-protected switch to activate it. The inverter feeds a dedicated twin 13 amp socket used for odd 230 volt jobs such as charging things.
Quite easy to do and much cheaper and simpler than trying to feed all the hook-up sockets. If you want to see how I did it, there is a write-up in the resources section called ‘instal a small inverter’.

 

[irnbru]

I ordered a camping heater and was sent this inverter by mistake. The company has now refunded my money and it looks like I have to keep the item

I already have an inverter so have no use for it so its Alans lucky day, he can have it.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lenny HB]

Far more efficentto us a 12v power supply to charge the laptop. We try to use everything on 12v when possible. We do have an inver and it is wired to all the sockets in the van and they auto switches over if on EHU. Only use the inverter for charging the e-bikes, vacuum cleaner & washing machine.
This showes how I wired mine, Here & Here

 

[Mr Chrysalis]

Far more efficentto us a 12v power supply to charge the laptop. We try to use everything on 12v when possible. We do have an inver and it is wired to all the sockets in the van and they auto switches over if on EHU. Only use the inverter for charging the e-bikes, vacuum cleaner & washing machine.
This showes how I wired mine, Here & Here

Nice installation. Is your inverter PSW? Many laptops and other electronic devices need that ( even pod coffee machines)

 

[peterc10]

Nice installation. Is your inverter PSW? Many laptops and other electronic devices need that ( even pod coffee machines)

I am not sure that info is correct anymore. Most laptops nowadays have external "brick" transformers that change AC voltage to whatever low DC voltage the laptop uses. By the time it gets into the laptop it is DC so no waves, sine or otherwise. Same applies to many TVs. And most other electronic gear like phones, speakers, tablets etc work on USB nowadays and again use external transformers. I have not heard of any problems with coffee pod machines either, after all they only have a heating element and a pump on AC, everything else will be DC.

The only problems with modified sine wave I have heard about are with some microwaves and the induction chargers of electric toothbrushes. We solved that problem by not using a microwave (we hardly use ours at home anyway) and by using electric toothbrushes with standard AA batteries (that we can charge via USB if we don't use disposables).

Having said that we, like Lenny, use 12V or gas for nearly everything nowadays when we are not on grid.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[davidathomas42]

I ordered a camping heater and was sent this inverter by mistake. The company has now refunded my money and it looks like I have to keep the item

I already have an inverter so have no use for it so its Alans lucky day, he can have it.

View attachment 204151

Who’s Alan? Am I Alan? Can I have it? My middle name is Alan

 

[peterc10]

I ordered a camping heater and was sent this inverter by mistake. The company has now refunded my money and it looks like I have to keep the item

I already have an inverter so have no use for it so its Alans lucky day, he can have it.

View attachment 204151

Looks similar to the one we have Sandra. Don't get excited by the 4000W claim though. I suspect that will be only for very short-term peak loads and the continuous rating will be more like 2000W.

 

[peterc10]

Who’s Alan? Am I Alan? Can I have it? My middle name is Alan

I think you will be the wrong Alan

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Lenny HB]

Nice installation. Is your inverter PSW? Many laptops and other electronic devices need that ( even pod coffee machines)

Yes it is a pure sine wave it's only a cheap one and I've not got around to putting a scope on the ouput to check how good it is, have plugged the the laptop in once (normally use a 12v supply) and the touch pad mouse was jittery OK with usb mouse, so I don't think the output is perfect but a lot better than a modified sine one.
As I said we try to run everthingoff of 12v only use the inverter when we can't get 12 v adaptors, don't like wasting power.

 

[irnbru]

Looks similar to the one we have Sandra. Don't get excited by the 4000W claim though. I suspect that will be only for very short-term peak loads and the continuous rating will be more like 2000W.

It says on it 4000w and 8000w surge . I guess I can't knock it considering its selling at £65. Cant believe I've just to keep it and not return it.

 

[peterc10]

It says on it 4000w and 8000w surge . I guess I can't knock it considering its selling at £65. Cant believe I've just to keep it and not return it.

That is very powerful. But you will need really hefty cables for it. And £65 sounds very cheap

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[irnbru]

@peterc10 Alan doesn't think he wants it LOL...He SHALL have it

Broken Link Removed

 

[peterc10]

@peterc10 Alan doesn't think he wants it LOL...He SHALL have it

Broken Link Removed

But not for a pound surely ..........

 

[hilldweller]

Or do people just mount an inverter mounted somewhere convenient to be able to plug into it?

Mount inverter near battery, use a short 240V mains extension. Simple and reliable.

KISS is good.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Mr Chrysalis]

I am not sure that info is correct anymore. Most laptops nowadays have external "brick" transformers that change AC voltage to whatever low DC voltage the laptop uses. By the time it gets into the laptop it is DC so no waves, sine or otherwise. Same applies to many TVs. And most other electronic gear like phones, speakers, tablets etc work on USB nowadays and again use external transformers. I have not heard of any problems with coffee pod machines either, after all they only have a heating element and a pump on AC, everything else will be DC.

The only problems with modified sine wave I have heard about are with some microwaves and the induction chargers of electric toothbrushes. We solved that problem by not using a microwave (we hardly use ours at home anyway) and by using electric toothbrushes with standard AA batteries (that we can charge via USB if we don't use disposables).

Having said that we, like Lenny, use 12V or gas for nearly everything nowadays when we are not on grid.

This is the best neutral advice I have seen which explains why PSW inverters should’ve used for most things other than “light bulbs and simple shunt motors”. I would agree with you about using a 12v dc input to a laptop in preference to an inverter, but if your laptop is not 12v dc and you already have a 240v to 12v D.C. “brick”, a PSW is better than non PSW
http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/Fact-sheet-Pure-sine-wave-VS-modified-sine-wave-/10000000177654483/g.html

 

[peterc10]

This is the best neutral advice I have seen which explains why PSW inverters should’ve used for most things other than “light bulbs and simple shunt motors”. I would agree with you about using a 12v dc input to a laptop in preference to an inverter, but if your laptop is not 12v dc and you already have a 240v to 12v D.C. “brick”, a PSW is better than non PSW
http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/Fact-sheet-Pure-sine-wave-VS-modified-sine-wave-/10000000177654483/g.html

Sorry but I remain unconvinced.

It gets nowhere near explaining why they are not advisable when the AC gets nowhere the appliance, as with items that have the brick. OK the brick (not the computer or TV) will get a bit warmer, but so what? And even then they seem to suggest that they use less power that sine wave inverters for the same appliance, yet get warmer. How can they do that? Things that get warmer usually have to use more power in order to get warmer. So that appears to makes no sense . And I am not sure that it is independent given that it is written by an Aussie company that sells pure sine wave inverters at a higher price of course than modified sine wave ones.

But, as I said, I only use my inverter for a hairdryer. I used to use it successfully with other things, such as TV, computer and phones, until I realised it is much easier and better to use 12V for those things.

 

[hilldweller]

It says on it 4000w and 8000w surge .

So 4000/13 = 333 AMPS !! and a surge of 666 AMPS. Good grief. I think you'd need a new battery each time you used it.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[william morgan]

The debate about PSW or MSW inverters intrigues me, I fitted a 300w MSW inverter to power just my tv, a 45w flat screen job it works perfectly,obviously it has not been told that it needs a PSW,all I have to do is turn off unwanted mcbs on consumer unit, simple job to wire it in being an electrical engineer.

 

[autorouter]

Sorry but I remain unconvinced.

I agree, this link is not very convincing, and gives a very superficial and inaccurate explanation.

Dumb devices like light bulbs and heating elements will work on any shape of mains waveform. They just need the total 'area' of the wave shape to be the same as the smooth sine wave shape. Smooth or jagged, makes no difference.

Laptop bricks, modern microwaves, and anything else that converts mains AC to DC, don't use the old transformer/rectifier/reservoir capacitor technology nowadays. Instead they use precision timing to slice the mains waveform to charge a storage capacitor, which then is used to feed a DC regulator that provides the DC output.

The designers kind of assume that the mains waveform will be a nice smooth sine wave, like normal household mains. If it's 'modified', such as a square wave, this precision timing will not give the right result. What happens then depends on the detailed circuit design, and is not in general predictable. In other words, suck it and see. If it works, fine. If not, you need a pure sine wave inverter.

Many modern appliances like pod coffee makers have an inbuilt digital control board, which gets its DC power by a similar method. So they may be affected by mains waveform shape.

I tried a 2000 watt modified sine wave inverter. A microwave (1500 watt input) worked, but needed 50% longer compared to a PSW inverter. An automatic Nespresso pod coffee maker (1200 watts) simply refused to work at all.

By the way, it's a shame the word 'transformer' has recently become the name of an AC to DC converter, and just when actual heavy iron-cored transformers are being phased out. Still, can't fight it, so go with it.

 

[Mr Chrysalis]

So the consensus seems to be:“ if it works on MSW; great. If not, use a PSW” I guess the extension is: “if it goes bang or bursts into flame on an MSW, then buy a new one and try a PSW.” I think I’ll stick to a PSW to power my Skybox and not bother with the coffee pod machine when I am not on EHU.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}