Interesting Video
- Thread starter Zepp
- Start date
R
Robert Clark
Deleted User
May I enquire as to how much they charge ?
Only getting the system fitted to run the beer fridge in the garage . £3,500 is a small price to pay for cold beer
Are you having 2 lithium fitted for that price including installation, they look really impressive batteries and a 10 year warranty too.
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Yes 2 batteries, charger and a few other items fitted
• 2 x Transporter Energy batteries
• Victron Smart BMV
• Upgraded split charge using a Victron Cyrix relay
• Victron MPPT charge controller for the 2 x 100w panels
Blue Knight
Free Member
That's a great video and I thoroughly enjoyed it; the guys clearly know their stuff too.
My observations as a new boy to this subject:
1. The video just goes to show how crappy the wiring sizes being used in that particular Swift Bolero are - not fit for any proper charging purpose IMO.
2. The Transporter batteries best be good units as they cost £1,199 apiece whereas the Victron 100Ah Superpack Lithium battery can be had for £350 less @ £850. (Serial Victron BAT512110705 refers).
3. I'm hoping that a lower locker of a Swift Bolero can keep the batteries above a 5C temperature threshold in winter or else they'll be destroyed in hours if they get charged in temperatures less than that, certainly anywhere close to zero.
4. Finally, they've mentioned a figure of 5,000 cycles but IMO that'll only be achievable if the battery SOC remains at 50% and above. If the bank goes down to 20% SOC then I reckon you'll get 2,500, possibly 3,000 cycles while down to 1%SOC will be much lower.
The Lithiums are great additions to any set-up but the user needs to know how to use them first, including environmental issues, if they are ever to get the best out of them.
A very informative video so thanks for posting it up.
All the best,
Andrew
My observations as a new boy to this subject:
1. The video just goes to show how crappy the wiring sizes being used in that particular Swift Bolero are - not fit for any proper charging purpose IMO.
2. The Transporter batteries best be good units as they cost £1,199 apiece whereas the Victron 100Ah Superpack Lithium battery can be had for £350 less @ £850. (Serial Victron BAT512110705 refers).
3. I'm hoping that a lower locker of a Swift Bolero can keep the batteries above a 5C temperature threshold in winter or else they'll be destroyed in hours if they get charged in temperatures less than that, certainly anywhere close to zero.
4. Finally, they've mentioned a figure of 5,000 cycles but IMO that'll only be achievable if the battery SOC remains at 50% and above. If the bank goes down to 20% SOC then I reckon you'll get 2,500, possibly 3,000 cycles while down to 1%SOC will be much lower.
The Lithiums are great additions to any set-up but the user needs to know how to use them first, including environmental issues, if they are ever to get the best out of them.
A very informative video so thanks for posting it up.
All the best,
Andrew
That's good info Andrew thanks, I don't know much about lithiums.
I never knew the temperature bit, so they need to be in compartments that are not freezing.
What about when storing the van in winter etc when it's freezing outside and you occasionally plug in whilst on the drive or start the engine etc.
Interesting, should these setups not have some kind of temperature protection like the frost stat at home or the 12v heater in motorhome water tanks. I would thought in the confines of a battery compartment it should be possible for the lithiums to provide the power to keep themselves warm (above 5c)?
Blue Knight
Free Member
Hi Paul, I'm on 'full absorb' when it comes to the Lithium subject as we plan to build a Lithium system into our new boat. The boating guys are hugely knowledgeable on the subject while some even work for Victron or have their own Lithium businesses.
The cold destroys Lithiums when the batteries are under charge conditions 'only' from what I gather, i.e. bung the charger onto charge when the batteries are in a very cold environment and say bye-bye to a few thousand quid.
Also, the SOC is important too. If you want to get close to the full number of cycles then it's important from what the professional boaters are telling me not to drop them to silly low levels but keep them at 50%SOC if you can.
That said, I'm still in learn mode at the moment so it's all new and interesting to me.
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Blue Knight
Free Member
Hi Bob, the whole charging system will come with a temperature protection facility but if it was my set-up then I would not stick the batteries in a lower outer locker (however, he example in the video looks as if they're more in-van mounted so will probably be warmer and happier batteries).
However, I certainly wouldn't bung expensive Lithium batteries (from what I read) in the lower side compartment of a normal MoHo, open to the elements and, unless you plan to operate in hotter environments. A winter in the Highlands on EHU charge would kill them in a lower locker position.
Lots of boats have their wet/AGM/Gel batteries located out of the cabin but the boaters who are buying Lithium systems are relocating their batteries fully inside instead, in a warm cupboard.
funflair
LIFE MEMBER
I thought this was a great read on Lithium, https://www.amumot.de/lipo-lithium-batterie-wohnmobil/
but you will have to read in in Chrome or similar so it translates, I found the reference to not storing in fully charged state interesting.
but you will have to read in in Chrome or similar so it translates, I found the reference to not storing in fully charged state interesting.
funflair
LIFE MEMBER
I believe that in most cases the BMS or the charger itself will prevent charging below a set temperature, our Buttner inverter/charger measures the temperature of the batteries but as they are in a heated garage they are unlikely to go below Zero deg C.
Blue Knight
Free Member
I do like the way Morelo mount their battery systems Martin. In all honesty I didn't take much notice of it until I started reading about Lithium.
Blue Knight
Free Member
This picture is not a great example Martin as the locker has an additional heating duct fitted but, I for one wouldn't bung my Lithiums in a similar unheated lower locker as this one.
I'll be visiting a place that does Victron fitouts in a few weeks and I'm hoping to come back with a cunning plan of how Nicky and I are going to manage our own winter power needs.
As sad as it may sound I'm quite excited by it all, lol
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Blue Knight
Free Member
That'll be a long Google translate session so I'll leave that for tonight Martin ;-)
funflair
LIFE MEMBER
I just read it in Google Chrome and it translates on the fly.
funflair
LIFE MEMBER
If thats sad i'm guilty as chargedThis picture is not a great example Martin as the locker has an additional heating duct fitted but, I for one wouldn't bung my Lithiums in a similar unheated lower locker as this one.
I'll be visiting a place that does Victron fitouts in a few weeks and I'm hoping to come back with a cunning plan of how Nicky and I are going to manage our own winter power needs.
As sad as it may sound I'm quite excited by it all, lol
View attachment 431234
all part of the fun.
R
Robert Clark
Deleted User
Our Tesla would only charge to 80% as standard.
If you were going on a long journey you could override this and charge to 100%
It's only a heated garage when you are using the van though Martin, not when its stored.
Good idea about the temperature sensor not charging below a set temperature.
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funflair
LIFE MEMBER
But when its stored it isn't on charge and it would have to be B cold to be anywhere close to Zero in the garage, we don't live in the wilds like you
, the ALDE radiators are below the batteries so a short drive with the heat exchanger on and it would be warming up nicely.
But when its stored it isn't on charge and it would have to be B cold to be anywhere close to Zero in the garage, we don't live in the wilds like you
I know our batteries are also in the heated garage alongside Alde but in winter when it gets to minus loads around here you couldn't just stick it on EHU as it would knacker the batteries?
House is well insulated but would still be freezing without the heating on.
Blue Knight
Free Member
That's a very good point Paul. Nicky and I were in the Highlands at the end of Oct-19 and the temperature hit -6C on the ground and then a few weeks later it went down to double figures.
Lots of people may be considering a Lithium option for their vans (with all the current hype as is) but the position of the Lithium battery in the van and how cold it will get in certain environments needs to be seriously considered.
Owners of MoHo's which have the lower vented skirt lockers would be unwise to fit batteries down there unless they were hot weather users only and even then I would think twice.
So the batteries in question on this thread Andrew, 10 year warranty, would that be void if they got destroyed due to cold weather?
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funflair
LIFE MEMBER
I don't think they would take charge at less than Zero deg C, below from Super-B FAQ's
The BMS will protect the system from short term over temperature and low temperature operations but the installation must keep the batteries within the recommended temperature.
Harley Davidson have developed E motorcycles which are being ridden by Ewan McGregor and Charley Boreman from the southern tip of South America to LA. They of course have Lithium batteries. The support vehicles Prototypes built by a US company called Riveran are powered likewise . They found that with temperatures well below freezing range was very limited . Charging was also a major problem outside , they had to resort to a king size genny on a Sprinter support van . The Riveran Pick ups had the same problem and several times ran out of charge. Luckily they had designed the pickups in such a way that they would charge quickly with a tow.
In the Temperaturs above 15 c no problem range nearly double.
Moral of the adventure seems to be Lithium does not like the cold. But it was minus 20c
at times. !
In the Temperaturs above 15 c no problem range nearly double.
Moral of the adventure seems to be Lithium does not like the cold. But it was minus 20c
at times. !
funflair
LIFE MEMBER
The Transporter data sheet says that they will charge from -4C it also says they have low temperature protection built in, I know that doesn't answer your question though, I think only Transporter could answer that.
The last bit would be the most important bit for me Martin, other than leaving the Alde on the lowest setting all winter or having it come on at set intervals with the remote panel as otherwise they would not stored within the required temperature.
funflair
LIFE MEMBER
You can discharge from them at -20,
| Operating temperature | -20 to 71C |
|---|---|
| Charge temperature | -4 to 57C |
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