Interesting reply from Hymer today

[Speve]

I’m in the process of changing out my Zenec Head unit in our B678DL and on taking out the unit have discovered a cats cradle of cables and fittings including a Schaudt RAD 01 radio adaptor, I decided to enquire first with Schaudt who then referred me to ask Hymer regarding whether there was a specific wiring loom for a Pioneer Head Unit to replace what was already installed by the factory as the existing set up with DSP did not work.

I received this reply today interestingly Informing me that they will not release circuit diagrams after the Motorhome is six years old.
I had not been aware of this policy and thought it worth posting.


Thank you for your request.
In principle, we can unfortunately only provide you with circuit diagrams after the 6th vehicle year.
For this reason we have to ask you to visit an official Hymer dealer in your region for your project.
Please do not hesitate to call us at any time for further technical questions at the number below.
This is an extra service we have set up at the Bad Waldsee / Germany plant, under which all end customers can call us for technical questions of all kinds. There you can reach us directly at the plant, an office of engineers, technicians and mechanics.
We can offer you to speak in German or English

looking at this they appear to try to be helpful but are really tying buyers hands without knowledge of these systems, to use a costly dealer to replace faulty or unwanted items in their vehicles.

In my case not ideal as I would have liked a working wiring diagram, however I have researched the cabling and existing looms and have concluded that it’s going to take lot of time to get my head around this but will succeed in the end even without a wiring diagram
but perhaps having to call the help line that they suggest.

 

[68c]

Did you mean they will not release diagrams for vehicles younger than six years.

 

[Speve]

Did you mean they will not release diagrams for vehicles younger than six years.

Yes that’s correct have to say it surprised me their wording on the reply was a little confusing but that’s what they are saying.

 

[Skyway]

They probably mean they don’t have it on file no more

 

[Speve]

They probably mean they don’t have it on file no more

Don’t think so our van is only 2018

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[Otter Spotter]

Presumably their translation is a bit weak and they are trying to protect their dealers, which is daft as you cannot really visit the dealer anyway under lockdown.

 

[Abgs]

I found the instal manual for the Zenec in my Hymer. It shows all the connections leaving the head-unit.

Might be worth a google around for you Zenec model.

In theory a standard ISO adapter should connect the Pioneer into the Fiat wiring loom .... but between the head-unit and the speakers on my Exsis is a Caratec mc029145_ht unit. This unit takes the TV and head-unit inputs and distributes the sound to the speakers.

What this means is that, if the radio is on and I then turn on the TV, the TV takes over the front speakers and the radio is only on in the rear bedroom area.

The Caratec turns on when it detects a signal from the Zenec or the TV. So there is some wiring specifically for that in the Zenec output to Fiat wiring loom.

I'm in the process of upgrading the speakers and adding an amp into the system, I did look at replacing the Zenec but figured it was too integrated into the Hymer's audio / video wiring.

So far I have bought the speakers but I'm still pondering the best way to add the amp.

I can't find a wiring diagram for the Caratec mc029145_ht unit. I can see the speaker input and output wires but can't work out which is which.

I have removed most of the Hymer dash panels that create the join between the Fiat and Hymer bodies. I'm adding a load of sound deadener foam under to stop the resonance of the panels. They are very thin on the Exsis - probably to keep the weight down. Also I'm finding the build quality is a bit lacking - lots of wires and connector blocks just hanging loose and heater pipes that all rattle against the plastic trim panels. I'm aiming to get rid of all the rattles!

This should also help the sound quality of the audio system !

I can photograph the wiring connections and post them up if you want. I've still got half the dash in pieces.

 

[Abgs]

Ahh just realised you replied to my post on Audio upgrades the other day!

 

[CazPaul]

It says we can only provide you with circuit diagrams after the 6th vehicle year, so does that mean they don’t want anyone doing work on the van until after 6 years old?
Then after 6 years you can do work on it and they will provide the wiring diagram.

 

[Speve]

I found the instal manual for the Zenec in my Hymer. It shows all the connections leaving the head-unit.

Might be worth a google around for you Zenec model.

In theory a standard ISO adapter should connect the Pioneer into the Fiat wiring loom .... but between the head-unit and the speakers on my Exsis is a Caratec mc029145_ht unit. This unit takes the TV and head-unit inputs and distributes the sound to the speakers.

What this means is that, if the radio is on and I then turn on the TV, the TV takes over the front speakers and the radio is only on in the rear bedroom area.

The Caratec turns on when it detects a signal from the Zenec or the TV. So there is some wiring specifically for that in the Zenec output to Fiat wiring loom.

I'm in the process of upgrading the speakers and adding an amp into the system, I did look at replacing the Zenec but figured it was too integrated into the Hymer's audio / video wiring.

So far I have bought the speakers but I'm still pondering the best way to add the amp.

I can't find a wiring diagram for the Caratec mc029145_ht unit. I can see the speaker input and output wires but can't work out which is which.

I have removed most of the Hymer dash panels that create the join between the Fiat and Hymer bodies. I'm adding a load of sound deadener foam under to stop the resonance of the panels. They are very thin on the Exsis - probably to keep the weight down. Also I'm finding the build quality is a bit lacking - lots of wires and connector blocks just hanging loose and heater pipes that all rattle against the plastic trim panels. I'm aiming to get rid of all the rattles!

This should also help the sound quality of the audio system !

I can photograph the wiring connections and post them up if you want. I've still got half the dash in pieces.

Thanks for the offer but I removed the Caratec DSP last year after sending it to Caratec they returned it saying it was working I did try reconnecting but could not get any sound through it so tested speaker cabling each side of DSP and found DSP not working so took it out, Zenec is still working but has developed a problem with the CD/DVD player and can no longer obtain sound from TV so am replacing with a Pioneer.
the set up in our van has as I said a Schaudt RAD 01 adaptor which controls all three cameras and switching, the steering wheel controls and sound system, so I have worked out what I basically need to do, the main problem was discovering that all the wiring was incorporated in a specific loom for the Fiat/ Zenec head unit. So enquired as to whether there was a specific harness available to fit a Pioneer. Hymer‘s reply was as above.
I will let you know how I get on

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[Speve]

It says we can only provide you with circuit diagrams after the 6th vehicle year, so does that mean they don’t want anyone doing work on the van until after 6 years old?
Then after 6 years you can do work on it and they will provide the wiring diagram.

Yes that’s my take on it

 

[Larrynwin]

It says we can only provide you with circuit diagrams after the 6th vehicle year, so does that mean they don’t want anyone doing work on the van until after 6 years old?
Then after 6 years you can do work on it and they will provide the wiring diagram.

That’s the way I read it, up to six years it’s dealers work.

 

[Supaimpy]

Surely that's a breach of Block Exemption Regulations ?

 

[Speve]

Surely that's a breach of Block Exemption Regulations ?

They are certainly trying to corner the market for their own dealers however I have other plans

 

[nicholsong]

I enquired for a wiring diagram from N&B when my MH was about 15 years old and they said they will only supply them to dealers, so with them you can never get one I assume.

Even more ridiculous is when you want just a piece of paper relating to your MH they try to insist you request it through a dealer, who then wantsto charge for it.

Geoff

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[TheBig1]

in theory all the wires you need are there connected to the zenec specific plug. you could simply splice into that or trace the rats nest back to the fiat connector and buy a specific adaptor for that

 

[68c]

Yes that’s correct have to say it surprised me their wording on the reply was a little confusing but that’s what they are saying.

Perhaps they are worried about their designs, their intellectual property, being used by competitors. After six years it is considered old fashioned and so can be released.

 

[Larrynwin]

Surely there is an adapter to link Zenek/Pioneer .
May seem an odd statement but when I changed radio/navigation set in my American RV a plug/socket adapter was available off the shelf which linked all connections.

 

[Speve]

in theory all the wires you need are there connected to the zenec specific plug. you could simply splice into that or trace the rats nest back to the fiat connector and buy a specific adaptor for that

Yes that’s what I’m in the process of doing

 

[Speve]

Surely there is an adapter to link Zenek/Pioneer .
May seem an odd statement but when I changed radio/navigation set in my American RV a plug/socket adapter was available off the shelf which linked all connections.

I do have an adaptor but thats supplied for an original Fiat Ducato wiring however Hymer have concocted a complete loom of cabling incorporating the Schaudt RAD 01 adaptor, Caratec DSP and purpose built Fiat/Zenec head unit,
now I could go straight to the Fiat plug but I want to keep the Schaudt RAD 01 adaptor as the three camera switches are operated through it also there is a switch for Leisure and vehicle starter battery changeover run through it which is great as when parked up you run the head unit from leisure if you want the radio on.

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[Speve]

Perhaps they are worried about their designs, their intellectual property, being used by competitors. After six years it is considered old fashioned and so can be released.

I think it’s more to do with getting dealers the work as anyone that wants to see wiring could get details by looking at it although it is a rats nest of cables as TheBig1 says

 

[Abgs]

I do have an adaptor but thats supplied for an original Fiat Ducato wiring however Hymer have concocted a complete loom of cabling incorporating the Schaudt RAD 01 adaptor, Caratec DSP and purpose built Fiat/Zenec head unit,
now I could go straight to the Fiat plug but I want to keep the Schaudt RAD 01 adaptor as the three camera switches are operated through it also there is a switch for Leisure and vehicle starter battery changeover run through it which is great as when parked up you run the head unit from leisure if you want the radio on.

I've been working on mine again today and I just can't figure the wiring loom either. Like you I want to keep three camera and battery switch over system in place.

I have fitted the new speakers and a lot of sound deadening which has made a massive, massive improvement to the sound but I can't road test it yet to see if the acoustics while driving are better. I now have very decent speakers stealthy fitted behind the original Visaton grills along with separate tweeters.

I think I can add a powered subwoofer by direct connection to the head unit using they RCA outputs but I'd need to hard wire it to one of the batteries unless I can figure how to tap the power output from the Schaudt RAD 01 so its switchable.

It's keeping me busy in lockdown !

 

[Speve]

I've been working on mine again today and I just can't figure the wiring loom either. Like you I want to keep three camera and battery switch over system in place.

I have fitted the new speakers and a lot of sound deadening which has made a massive, massive improvement to the sound but I can't road test it yet to see if the acoustics while driving are better. I now have very decent speakers stealthy fitted behind the original Visaton grills along with separate tweeters.

I think I can add a powered subwoofer by direct connection to the head unit using they RCA outputs but I'd need to hard wire it to one of the batteries unless I can figure how to tap the power output from the Schaudt RAD 01 so its switchable.

It's keeping me busy in lockdown !

I’m still working on mine and if I find the solution I’ll post it on here good luck I have a few ideas to try tomorrow and hopefully have an answer

 

[Speve]

Al Bondigas this may be of help to you it’s the connection pins on the Schaudt RAD 01.

- Pin 1: RADIO ON switch

- Pin 2: starter battery + fused with max. 10 A.

- Pin 3: ground (GND)

- Pin 4: Not used

- Pin 5: RADIO ON switch

- Pin 6: living area battery + fused with max. 25 A - Pin 7: ignition ON (Kl 15)

- Pin 8: D + alternator

- Pin 9: supply to camera -

- Pin 10: supply to camera +

- Pin 11: supply to radio connected + (Kl 15)

- Pin 12: supply to radio permanent + (Kl 30)

 

[Abgs]

Al Bondigas this may be of help to you it’s the connection pins on the Schaudt RAD 01.

- Pin 1: RADIO ON switch

- Pin 2: starter battery + fused with max. 10 A.

- Pin 3: ground (GND)

- Pin 4: Not used

- Pin 5: RADIO ON switch

- Pin 6: living area battery + fused with max. 25 A - Pin 7: ignition ON (Kl 15)

- Pin 8: D + alternator

- Pin 9: supply to camera -

- Pin 10: supply to camera +

- Pin 11: supply to radio connected + (Kl 15)

- Pin 12: supply to radio permanent + (Kl 30)View attachment 460482

Very useful - thanks !

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[mitzimad]

your lucky i approached burstner for wiring diagrams of mine at 13 years old and they still refered me to main dealer

 

[Abgs]

Two things ......

Thanks for the offer but I removed the Caratec DSP last year after sending it to Caratec they returned it saying it was working I did try reconnecting but could not get any sound through it so tested speaker cabling each side of DSP and found DSP not working so took it out, Zenec is still working but has developed a problem with the CD/DVD player and can no longer obtain sound from TV so am replacing with a Pioneer.

Does this mean if i put a DVD in my Zenec it should / could play on the TV screen? It doesn't - it only plays in the Zenec screen.

I do have an adaptor but thats supplied for an original Fiat Ducato wiring however Hymer have concocted a complete loom of cabling incorporating the Schaudt RAD 01 adaptor, Caratec DSP and purpose built Fiat/Zenec head unit,
now I could go straight to the Fiat plug but I want to keep the Schaudt RAD 01 adaptor as the three camera switches are operated through it also there is a switch for Leisure and vehicle starter battery changeover run through it which is great as when parked up you run the head unit from leisure if you want the radio on.

Amazon suggests this plug is for a Zenec and Pioneer - does your wiring match these connections - if so the head units might be a might be a straight swap?

 

[Speve]

your lucky i approached burstner for wiring diagrams of mine at 13 years old and they still refered me to main dealer

Didn’t get any from Hymer they referred me to dealer

 

[Speve]

Two things ......



Does this mean if i put a DVD in my Zenec it should / could play on the TV screen? It doesn't - it only plays in the Zenec screen.



Amazon suggests this plug is for a Zenec and Pioneer - does your wiring match these connections - if so the head units might be a might be a straight swap?

(1) To be honest I have never tried as our tv has a built in DVD player.
(2) The problem I have found is that the Zenec is installed on a wiring harness specific to the Fiat/Hymer incorporating a Schaudt RAD 01 radio adaptor, I have tried all sorts of ways to connect my Pioneer via that loom but had no success, the reason for trying is to still use the adaptor for switching of three cameras and change of power supply from ignition to D+ using leisure batteries And also keep the steering wheel controls.
here is the problem I cannot find a connection for the D+ on the pioneer and their instructions are a bit vague to say the least. On the connectors I have the one that would fit the bill has a loom connector that I cannot find a male plug to put in it,Hymer and Schaudt are totally useless for any info so am trying to work it out still.
I will get there eventually

 

[Abgs]

1) To be honest I have never tried as our tv has a built in DVD player.

ahh - I’ve just found a DVD player built into the back of the tv!

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