Interesting conversation ref; Medical Insurance cover?. (1 Viewer)

[PeteH]

Been looking into getting some travel insurance cover online, so went on a well known "Over 50`s" site to see what the potential cost would be. I had a query about an operation carried out about 18 months back and now fully discharged. This site has a "Chat" facility, so I woke it up and went "Chatting" the result:- ( it`s verbatim so the spelling is uncorrected)

(ME)- Hi. Have a query over declared medical conditions. Does a condition for which there is a Medical discharge confirmation still need to be declared?

Jae: Good evening

→Yes?

Jae: anything that you have suffered form/seen someone about or taken anything for in the last 2 years needs to be declared

→Even if it has been operated for and the patient is now discharged?

Jae: yes

→So every bout of cold or flu? ( I was being mischievous but did not expect this answer)

Jae: yes if you have siffered form this in the last 2 years

→How can this be? can you remember every ache and pain for which yoy may have been given a short course of (say) antibiotic, and for which a full recovery has been made. That would not only impractical but will take about 6 months to complete for the average customer?

Jae: you would be able to obtain this information from your GP

→In a purely practical sense. I can see the UK`s overwhelmed Medical system being very grateful for that request from every traveller who wishes to go on holiday. Surely you are joking?

Jae: if you are unable to provide us with a full medical declaration it may result in claims being declined as a result of missed information, the receptionist should be able to provide you with the information

→If I was a betting man. I would wager that this type of request is probably a breach of the unfair terms clauses in the unfair contract legislation?. I will probabaly have to consult with Trading Standards. to ascertain this.

→ Thank you and have a nice day.


I was about to sign off when this reply came:-

Jae: If you are happy you can provide the information to the best of your knowledge then you can book a policy but we ask that anything is declared from the last 2 years, some of our customer prefer to obtain the information from their GP

→I cannot see the need to have a record of every sneeze and cold etc. but OK major stuff requiring hospital clinical attendance OK the rest is IMV just Bureaucratic Nonsense.

Jae: this is the information our underwriters request i'm afraid to ensure you obtain full cover

→I will have to reconsider, as I cannot see the pint of typing up screeds JUST to get cover.

→Anyway as I said earlier have a good day Bye.

Jae: have a good evening

→Yes I have transcribed this, for future reference cheers (End of "Chat")

Opinions please?.

My take would be extreme "botty covering". But on a serious note if you break something serious and have to be medi evacued , then the fact that you where treat for (say) Herpes (cold sores), but hadn't said, after all most kids get a cold sore? and parents don't think twice about it. Could be reason to refuse cover?. Thereby saving (them) thousands?. Is that reasonable?.

What is being said effectively is that unless YOU declare every "sniffle" you are NOT guaranteed cover if the worst happens?. Surely, there has to be "reason" in this?. Or will it take a Court Action and Parliamentary changes to clarify?.

 

[Landy lover]

Interesting - So on that basis if you have had cancer and are in remission and you have a check up every 3 months to confirm you are still in remission that would need to be reported and therefore anything that remotely could be connected to cancer even in a different location would be excluded from cover.

Something that also I find interesting is the variations on the 'cut off age date' because of the amount of traveling we do we have for the last 20 years had a 12 month travel policy with the NFU that dictates over 70 you have to contact them for cover. We get 'free' cover from Natwest but over 70 you have to contact them and pay a surcharge. Nationwide also cover us for free up to 75 and you have to notify of any 'health conditions'.

Now the Gov wants us all to work until we are 70 before retiring - at 70 we are no longer deemed to be fit for driving unless we have some medical checks. What is it about 70 do we all fall apart at 70 ??

Strikes me we should have an update on that 70 thing !!!

 

[mikebeaches]

Regardless of the precise content of the conversation you had with the agent at the insurance company, I'd suggest what you need to consider is every interaction you've had with your GP, the NHS in general and or any private medical treatment which will be on your medical records.

It is your medical records that the insurer will check if you make a claim.

So if you took a couple of paracetamol because you had a cold; but you didn't need to contact your doctor then, personally, I'd suggest no need to declare.

But if you've had any prescriptions during the period indicated, even if it was, for example, for a medicated shampoo for a scalp condition or bad dandruff, then it would be sensible to declare it. There will be a traceable record that the insurer can follow.

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[Mikeco]

Tried to sort out medical insurance last September just before we set off for our 5 month trip to Spain. In the end I gave up as it was too complicated so we are here without any.

 

[Lenny HB]

Something that also I find interesting is the variations on the 'cut off age date' because of the amount of traveling we do we have for the last 20 years had a 12 month travel policy with the NFU that dictates over 70 you have to contact them for cover. We get 'free' cover from Natwest but over 70 you have to contact them and pay a surcharge. Nationwide also cover us for free up to 75 and you have to notify of any 'health conditions'.

Lloyds Bank cover you up to 80 and have the biggest list of conditions you don't need to declare I have seen.
A friend had first hand experience of a claim when he had a serious head injury in Barbados, the service was excellent, after he came out of hospital, they flew a nurse down from Canada to accompany him home and flew them home first class.

 

[mikebeaches]

Tried to sort out medical insurance last September just before we set off for our 5 month trip to Spain. In the end I gave up as it was too complicated so we are here without any.

Good luck!

Elderly brother-in-law made a similar decision last year on a short 5-night holiday to Tenerife. Tripped over and broke his hip, which had to be replaced. Cutting a long story short, there was little change from £25k after medical treatment, hospital fees, weeks to recuperate before he could get a 'certificate of fitness' to fly home and special arrangements on the plane etc etc. And of course my sis had to stay on there too in order to look after him.

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[Ralph-n-Bev]

I replied to an earlier thread on the same matter.
http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum...ver-65s-travel-insurance.146188/#post-2197983
Ralph had a very similar conversation to you , @PeteH with the insurance company.
"Even if you have asthma , depression, had a slipped disc in the past .......anything ."
the man said, it needs to be declared.
If not , and god forbid anything terrible happens it could cost thousands to get your body back . Even if you were alive and just ill, the bill could run in to many thousands.

 

[PeteH]

I don`t have a particular axe to grind with the company concerned, In fact they insured me for the USA, AND paid up with no hassle when I was bitten by a (potentially rabid) dog!. (not, as it happens) but I got the full treatment and sat around "****ing bricks for 14 days until they told me the dog was clear, just badly trained and kept (normally) in a hot tin box! of a Camper with no air conn for days on end! Along with a final bill in excess of 2.5K Pounds!. But I was taken a-back with the trend of the conversation. I can see the requirement to know about (potential) life threatening afflictions, But the "common" cold
F*S!. Or something which responds to a short course of antibiotics never to return?. Cut`s which require a stitch and a "Booster" Jab?. That is beyond ridiculous!.

 

[Riverbankannie]

I have to admit to not getting insurance for Europe in MH. However for a trip to Florida October 2015, I obtained a printout of our medical records and declared everything that was on there. It took me a long time!

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[PeteH]

Good luck!

Elderly brother-in-law made a similar decision last year on a short 5-night holiday to Tenerife. Tripped over and broke his hip, which had to be replaced. Cutting a long story short, there was little change from £25k after medical treatment, hospital fees, weeks to recuperate before he could get a 'certificate of fitness' to fly home and special arrangements on the plane etc etc. And of course my sis had to stay on there too in order to look after him.

Tenerife is Spain? is it not? and is therefore covered by the E111. For all Emergency treatment. The bill may be 25K. but the largest amount, actual Medical cost, will be Recoverable from the UK Gov`t under reciprocal means?. As I recall, even "your" UK Insurers will want, even require you to present the E111, In Europe, So that their "contribution" will be reduced by HMG.

Just "found" This :-
In Summary, the EHIC will cover:

• Any medical treatment that becomes necessary during your stay because of either illness or an accident.
• The card gives access to reduced-cost or free medical treatment from state healthcare providers.
• It allows you to be treated on the same basis as a resident of the country you are visiting i.e. you may have to pay a patient contribution (also known as a co-payment). You may be able to seek reimbursement for this when you are back in the UK if you are not able to do so in the other country (and limited to the equivalent cost on the NHS).
• It includes treatment of a chronic or pre-existing medical condition that becomes necessary during your visit.
• It includes routine maternity care, (provided the reason for your visit is not specifically to give birth).
• It includes the provision of oxygen, renal dialysis and routine medical care.

It does not cover:

• The EHIC is not a substitute or replacement for private travel insurance. You should always take out an appropriate private policy in addition to carrying your EHIC.
• It will not cover the costs of private healthcare or services that are not part of the state healthcare system.
• It will not cover the costs of being brought back to the UK.
• It will not allow you to go abroad to specifically receive treatment (including going abroad to give birth).
• The card may not be used in some regions, as there may be no state provided healthcare available.

 

[Jenowen]

We didn't manage the 'cover their a**e' conversation with the specialist over 50s insurers. However, we did have an interesting conversation when we came to renew our 'Annual multitrip' policy. We noticed that Year 2s renewal notice had, on the front of the document, a bold statement which we hadn't seen on the previous year's document. This stated that the policy was only valid for a total of 42 days in the 12month period.
When we asked how we could use this policy to cover our 'annual multitrip' requirements where most trips lasted in the region of 42 days we were informed that we would need to buy a new policy for every trip!
Needless to say, we're now insured with another company. Also, I'm really pleased to report that we've been fortunate to never have a need to claim on any of these policies.

 

[Chris]

They are insurers. Insurers are shits.

I always expect the worse when dealing with them and they never disappoint.

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[Mikeco]

Good luck!

Elderly brother-in-law made a similar decision last year on a short 5-night holiday to Tenerife. Tripped over and broke his hip, which had to be replaced. Cutting a long story short, there was little change from £25k after medical treatment, hospital fees, weeks to recuperate before he could get a 'certificate of fitness' to fly home and special arrangements on the plane etc etc. And of course my sis had to stay on there too in order to look after him.

There is always someone from this site at La Manga having treatment in Cartagena hospital, some for more serious issues than others. Eventually most get fit enough to carry on or go home. You don't have to be 100% fit to travel in a motor home.

 

[Riverbankannie]

There is always someone from this site at La Manga having treatment in Cartagena hospital, some for more serious issues than others. Eventually most get fit enough to carry on or go home. You don't have to be 100% fit to travel in a motor home.

Yes, that's true. You don't have to worry about flights and accommodation and for those of us lucky enough, plenty of time. One of us always fit to drive.

 

[Xabia]

I rely upon the EHIC card and back up cover from http://www.ehicplus.com/.

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[gus-lopez]

Tenerife is Spain? is it not? and is therefore covered by the E111. For all Emergency treatment. The bill may be 25K. but the largest amount, actual Medical cost, will be Recoverable from the UK Gov`t under reciprocal means?. As I recall, even "your" UK Insurers will want, even require you to present the E111, In Europe, So that their "contribution" will be reduced by HMG.

Just "found" This :-
In Summary, the EHIC will cover:

• Any medical treatment that becomes necessary during your stay because of either illness or an accident.
• The card gives access to reduced-cost or free medical treatment from state healthcare providers.
• It allows you to be treated on the same basis as a resident of the country you are visiting i.e. you may have to pay a patient contribution (also known as a co-payment). You may be able to seek reimbursement for this when you are back in the UK if you are not able to do so in the other country (and limited to the equivalent cost on the NHS).
• It includes treatment of a chronic or pre-existing medical condition that becomes necessary during your visit.
• It includes routine maternity care, (provided the reason for your visit is not specifically to give birth).
• It includes the provision of oxygen, renal dialysis and routine medical care.

It does not cover:

• The EHIC is not a substitute or replacement for private travel insurance. You should always take out an appropriate private policy in addition to carrying your EHIC.
• It will not cover the costs of private healthcare or services that are not part of the state healthcare system.
• It will not cover the costs of being brought back to the UK.
• It will not allow you to go abroad to specifically receive treatment (including going abroad to give birth).
• The card may not be used in some regions, as there may be no state provided healthcare available.

If you have to pay for anything I don't believe you can claim reimbursement anymore. Stopped it a few years back.

 

[reckless]

For info, The medical declaration for ehicplus excludes 'minor ailments such as the common cold'. Common sense like this should be used by all insurers.

It also states you have to declare any change in medical health before booking a trip (for multi trip). I need to check this on our policy as hubby's hernia has recurred since we bought it.

I've just realised that I didn't declare osteoarthritis in my hip because it's been a while since it was diagnosed, I don't take medication and I'm not waiting for surgery. I need to check that too

We paid enough to get a 75 day maximum stay, probably not needed now as we had to cancel the winter trip. It's a rip off for sure.

Karen

 

[mikebeaches]

Tenerife is Spain? is it not? and is therefore covered by the E111. For all Emergency treatment. The bill may be 25K. but the largest amount, actual Medical cost, will be Recoverable from the UK Gov`t under reciprocal means?. As I recall, even "your" UK Insurers will want, even require you to present the E111, In Europe, So that their "contribution" will be reduced by HMG.

Just "found" This :-
It does not cover:

• The EHIC is not a substitute or replacement for private travel insurance. You should always take out an appropriate private policy in addition to carrying your EHIC.

The note you quoted from the EHIC information includes the very clear and specific Government advice:

"The EHIC is not a substitute or replacement for private travel insurance. You should always take out an appropriate private policy in addition to carrying your EHIC."

I am no great fan of insurers and agree many will frequently seek to avoid settling claims if they can find cause. However, personally, I prefer to have the comfort and security of knowing I have adequate medical cover when abroad. Overseas state health provision is not the same as the NHS; indeed some may be better, but not always.

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[DavidG58]

don't mean to create an argument here, but

he is only asking for trips to your doctors over the past 2 years

can you really not remember them?

 

[Minxy]

Its fine relying solely on the EHIC but if you are seriously injured and left requiring long term care, or die, that's when additional insurance comes into play.

 

[PeteH]

The note you quoted from the EHIC information includes the very clear and specific Government advice:

"The EHIC is not a substitute or replacement for private travel insurance. You should always take out an appropriate private policy in addition to carrying your EHIC."

I am no great fan of insurers and agree many will frequently seek to avoid settling claims if they can find cause. However, personally, I prefer to have the comfort and security of knowing I have adequate medical cover when abroad. Overseas state health provision is not the same as the NHS; indeed some may be better, but not always.

Mike, I am not trying to take issue with your Personal view here. If anything I am looking at the implications of "unfair" Small print, if you like. When I suggested to the operative about the "common cold", I was actually being a bit naughty. BUT it was the tenor of the reply that threw me and prompted the Post. I would normally not hesitate to take out personal cover, but for (MY) personal reasons (cover at one time actually refused altogether). We have to investigate all alternatives OR be forced to sit in the Cold all Winter!!

To that extent this is not a disagreement over the quality of care in the UK, v`s any other (European) country, that subject would be for a different post. It is to my mind knowing just how far to have go to achieve Guaranteed cover, without declaring reams of unnecessary detail over minor aliments. Bearing in mind it is not hard to genuinely "forget" some small detail that later comes back to haunt?. Not everyone keeps detailed records of their medical history, we have to, but only the more major stuff, because of My wife`s long term medical past, and that in it`self takes a lot of managing!. What we do NOT need is to find that because she or I didn't declare that we needed a Dressing and a stitch, for a bad cut. We then lose everything when they decline to honour the Policy!. That for me is the nub of the matter. I also think it is unfair (of insurers) to even suggest the OVERSTRETCHED G-P service to supply up to date detailed output for every Patient who wants to go on holiday?, in our local practice they are running to keep up most days of the week.

BTW, I am pursuing this in the hope of getting clarity form the (potential) provider, so watch this space. I am not so adverse to be costed extra for pre-existing medical conditions, just concerned that a genuine error could jeopardise the end game.

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[PeteH]

There is always someone from this site at La Manga having treatment in Cartagena hospital, some for more serious issues than others. Eventually most get fit enough to carry on or go home. You don't have to be 100% fit to travel in a motor home.

How is La-Manga these days?. We had several winters (or parts thereof) on there in the "90`s/naughties".?

 

[PeteH]

don't mean to create an argument here, but

he is only asking for trips to your doctors over the past 2 years

can you really not remember them?

That, on the face of it, is a fair question, but. For example, I had a period of foot soreness, which turned out to be nothing more than extremely dry skin. However, I asked the Doc to take a look when I was in for "Review" (Blood pressure=OK). Now that could be on the record?. IF I fail to remember such a minor ailment, I have TECHNICALLY committed an error and Potentially when I break my leg in Spain, they can refuse to pay out!. THAT is the root of the dilemma. Forget something Minor and they COULD refuse.

 

[DavidG58]

That makes a lot of sense, as said by others above some insurers do seem to look at how not to pay rather than how to best help

maybe we should all be asking for a printout of our last 2 years records whenever we go in to see a doctor, not too onerous for the doctors as we are sat with them already, not much difference to getting a prescription

not sure if that is already an option that nobody has thought to ask for, or the doctors do not advertise, or more likely they would charge for

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[mikebeaches]

That makes a lot of sense, as said by others above some insurers do seem to look at how not to pay rather than how to best help

maybe we should all be asking for a printout of our last 2 years records whenever we go in to see a doctor, not too onerous for the doctors as we are sat with them already, not much difference to getting a prescription

not sure if that is already an option that nobody has thought to ask for, or the doctors do not advertise, or more likely they would charge for

As I understand, anybody is entitled to a print-out of their own medical record. Which, as you say, is a pretty straightforward request.

 

[Camdoon]

The monkeys who man these chat lines cannot deviate from their script. As you say you have a print out of what they have written and could use this in the event of a court case so no-one interfacing with the public is going to deviate from what is written on the policy. If you write "should I do xx or do I need to mention xx", they will say yes.

 

[Jenben]

Re the EHIC, personally I wouldn't rely on it. Our experience in France is that some hospitals/clinics are run privately and you'll only be able to reclaim costs via private health insurance. Do you really want to be running around trying to find a state run hospital next time you have a serious emergency?.

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[Sandancers]

Pretty similar to getting Motorhome Insurance then.

They ask you what, if any, modifications you might have made to the vehicle. If you do not declare, for instance, the shining new alloy wheels then the Insurance Co might reject a claim which you might make later on. Or perhaps you forgot to mention the new gas set-up you had installed which then leaked and caused an explosion ? Try getting a claim out of them then !

 

[Franck]

If you are unlucky enough to need doctor/hospital treatment abroad be careful of what you tell the medical professionals. My cousins mother in law had a stroke while on holiday and her husband told the hospital about the Medicines she took including the daily aspirin she took herself, not prescribed by her GP. The insurance refused to pay out for her treatment and air ambulance home because she had not declared taking regular aspirin. The final bill was in excess of £20,000.

 

[maison]

@PeteH
What infuriates me about travel insurance is ......

My wife suffered from Viral Myocarditis about 45 years ago. A viral infection of the myocardium around the heart it cleared up after a period of rest and a reduction in activity. Within three months she was given the all clear.

She has had no recurrence in the last 44 years and our GP and, indeed, the Cardiologist at the time, said there were no lasting effects.

However, when we declare, it her premium is increased, on average, by £130 for annual cover. This applies to all companies we have tried.

As soon as anything referring to "Cardiac" is entered in their computers common sense goes out of the window.

We could, of course, choose not to pay the extra premium but, if we do that, they will not cover any illness affecting the heart. At our age, probably not a good choice.

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