In your opinion re: A Frames (1 Viewer)

In your opinion are A Frames legal in the UK

  • No the only legislation mentioning them is for recovery only

    Votes: 7 12.3%
  • No there is no law covering them

    Votes: 12 21.1%
  • Yes they are treated as trailers

    Votes: 30 52.6%
  • Yes they are allowed under EU legislation

    Votes: 1 1.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 7 12.3%

  • Total voters
    57

DBK

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I didn't know there was a debate about their use in the UK - I thought the problems were about Europe and Spain in particular? I must pay more attention.

Not. :)
 

Jim

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It is pretty clear that Our 'opinions' count for nothing. It's the opinion of a judge that will make them strictly 'legal' or not. Meanwhile, VOSA, DVSA the DOT (whatever) have the opinion that they are legal (which will stop any judges getting near it in the UK) but acknowledge that should a court ever get near it (why would they) that might change.

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Snowbird

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It doesn't concern me one bit as I converted my Aframed Panda to cash years ago. I find it much easier to handle now :).
_Digimax S600 _ Kenox S600 _ Digimax Cyber 630__8.jpg
 
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It won't be considered by a court until someone is killed as a direct result of an a frame being either used or fitted to a vehicle.

Until that happens the grey area will remain in the UK
 

Steve N Tracy

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The basic facts on towing with a A frame are on this Broken Link Removed its a bit of a grey area on the brake efficiency of wheels in contact with the road you may not reach the required efficiency for the weight of what is considered to be a trailer on just the rear wheels brakes.

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Aug 6, 2013
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The basic facts on towing with a A frame are on this Broken Link Removed its a bit of a grey area on the brake efficiency of wheels in contact with the road you may not reach the required efficiency for the weight of what is considered to be a trailer on just the rear wheels brakes.
There's no grey area with regard to trailer brakes: if the trailer is over 750kg then all wheels in contact with the road must be braked. I don't think you'll find any A frame that brakes only the rear wheels of a toad.
 

Steve N Tracy

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There's no grey area with regard to trailer brakes: if the trailer is over 750kg then all wheels in contact with the road must be braked. I don't think you'll find any A frame that brakes only the rear wheels of a toad.

Yep your right for some reason I was thinking of the spectacle type lift. (n)
 
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sdc77

sdc77

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I didn't know there was a debate about their use in the UK - I thought the problems were about Europe and Spain in particular? I must pay more attention.

Not. :)
I think the poll speaks for itself tbh :)

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sdc77

sdc77

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It is pretty clear that Our 'opinions' count for nothing. It's the opinion of a judge that will make them strictly 'legal' or not. Meanwhile, VOSA, DVSA the DOT (whatever) have the opinion that they are legal (which will stop any judges getting near it in the UK) but acknowledge that should a court ever get near it (why would they) that might change.
Whilst I agree with you Jim I still think that even after the 2 zillion a frame threads .. people are still confused and/or have incorrect views of the current situation in the UK
 

Charlie

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Our opinions may not be valid but we are surely allowed to have them or what would be the point of a discussion or a forum on which to discuss ?

My view is they are not illegal therefore by default they are not illegal .

All the rest has been said . Not that I get into discussions on this topic though .. ..........
 

DuxDeluxe

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Our opinions may not be valid but we are surely allowed to have them or what would be the point of a discussion or a forum on which to discuss ?

My view is they are not illegal therefore by default they are not illegal .

All the rest has been said . Not that I get into discussions on this topic though .. ..........
As per English common law and also the document issued by the Government as previously referred. Not that the gainsayers will take any notice, of course.

  • I regularly tow on an A frame
  • I am happy with the braking efficiency as it uses the cars own servo and electronics for braking
  • I am happy that the government departments are OK with this
  • My insurance company is totally happy with both Van and car fully insured whilst towing and is written into the insurance documents
  • Insurance company also happy with the modifications to both as fully declared
  • If someone runs out in front of the car the extra screw hole will make no difference whatsoever to either the car or someone if hit
  • The courts will not come after me if the above happens and in any case as per item 4 above the insurance company will cover it as modifications etc fully declared. Insurance companies are risk averse and to write the coverage into the policy shows that they have investigated fully and got their lawyers to approve any wording
  • It is my choice to do all of the above and the gainsayers who simply do not understand common law should stop screeching that A frames are illegal where they clearly are legal under UK common law. Other countries have different views but in UK they are legal
*mic drop*
 

vwalan

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There's no grey area with regard to trailer brakes: if the trailer is over 750kg then all wheels in contact with the road must be braked. I don't think you'll find any A frame that brakes only the rear wheels of a toad.
in fact all the brakes must work on the car being towed regardless of weight .
if brakes are fitted they must work.
the 750kg is for unbraked trailers .

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big map

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Charlie got banned from the forum. How about a total ban on a/frame linked threads for one month too. Either some members that haven't got one are totally obsessed with this stuff or haven't a big enough garden to look after. Lets have a break.
But what will happen when I go on holiday if I get stopped and fined I wont be able to report back? :cry:

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Charlie

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Charlie got banned from the forum. How about a total ban on a/frame linked threads for one month too. Either some members that haven't got one are totally obsessed with this stuff or haven't a big enough garden to look after. Lets have a break.

The whole point of a forum is to discuss topics of all sorts whether we like the topic or agree or disagree.. Every one is entitled to thier view so placing an almost unenforceable ban on any particular topic would not be in the interests or spirit of a forum .

There does seem to be a pro or anti group and for the life of me I cannot understand why anyone who does not or does not intend to buy or use an A frame objects as much as is often the case.

There are lots of things in life I have no interest in and in no way intend to participate but I have to many other things to worry about to opine on them .
 
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jollyrodger

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There's no grey area with regard to trailer brakes: if the trailer is over 750kg then all wheels in contact with the road must be braked. I don't think you'll find any A frame that brakes only the rear wheels of a toad.


Em yes you do used them when on patrol ( AA ).A frame with overrun break cable you would attach to footbrake.Heavy duty .used the same for many years until going over to a chariot with brakes .
And tought they were for a disabled vehicle to tow no more than 40mph distance no more than 40 miles(AA rules to cover their rear end)then you'd get a call "do a direct Taunton to Birmingham"

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Derbyshire wanderer

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I 'A frame' in the uk and would in France but probably not Spain. Like many laws, they are not the same in each country and being in the EU does not mean that all countries have the same laws.
As with everything in life, you are expected to know the rules for wherever you are and if you decide to 'chance it' you will have to take the punishment if caught.
It would be interesting to see for instance who carries the high viz vest, spare bulb kit and warning triangle etc in all of the territories where required. Tbh, I would have to check up before going across Europe to know what the expectation is of what to carry.
The one thing for sure is that I would not ask on here for the answer as too many base their replies on what they want the law to be rather than what it really is. Just saying like :whistle:
 

Charlie

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I'm new to this game. What's an A Frame?

Its a device created by Satan on a day when he felt ....................Well devilish ! He must have been on an ultra bad day as the device causes more agro than religion... To some that is...

To others including me it allows us to take a small car away with is when we go away with the motorhome. This among other things means I can get my disabled wife around in the wee car and it helps minimise the pain she is constantly in. So created by a higher being on a day when he was in a great mood.

A couple of pictures for you delectation Sir .... Or Madam of course !







Isnt it a truly wonderous invention ?? :D(y)(y)(y)
 
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Em yes you do used them when on patrol ( AA ).A frame with overrun break cable you would attach to footbrake.Heavy duty .used the same for many years until going over to a chariot with brakes .
And tought they were for a disabled vehicle to tow no more than 40mph distance no more than 40 miles(AA rules to cover their rear end)then you'd get a call "do a direct Taunton to Birmingham"
Attached to the footbrake means all 4 wheels are braked - as I said.
 

vwalan

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i think most aframes sold in uk arent really legal except for recovery use as the cable and sliding hitch versions in my mind dont give the correct auto reverse that caravans and trailers require .
the electric operated ones do as the brake only comes on when you press the brake pedal.
my aframe is old big bumper pads chains and no brakes on towed vehicle . only had it 40 yrs . it works fine . ha ha .

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Charlie

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There is a built in gas ram on the caratow one. To reverse you simply pull forward a few inches to make sure the brakes are disengaged then reverse slowly. I say slowly cos if you try to go at it to hard the brakes will be brought on. I have tried it and it works perfectly. Of course we can disengage the cable in 2 seconds but that means of course it's not then automatic.

The outfit complies with UK legislation it they would not be able to sell them.

Whether mechanical or electronic braking is chosen there are pros and cons. I went mechanical for two reasons. 1 I can maintain it and importantly understand its workings and repair it if necessary. 2 the cost.
 
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The outfit complies with UK legislation it they would not be able to sell them.


No it doesn't because there is no UK legislation for A frames and there won't be until the subject tested by a court.

All there is at the moment is Department for Transport interpretation of current trailer legislation with particular reference to A frame towing. That isn't law because the DfT don't get to make law.

It's a grey area at best and, as I previously posted, will remain so until the DfT interpretation is tested by a court. Unfortunately that won't happen until something goes horribly wrong and someone is killed as a direct result of an A frame either being installed or used.

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