Wondered if anyone has an idea for getting to alter an adjustable panel on roof as cannot be reached from outside. Perhaps from the inside of van ? Just a thought at moment.. have fixed one on roof.
Idea for a tilting solar panel.
- Thread starter Chris51
- Start date
the ultimate would be adapting a motorised sat system replacing the dish with a solar panel and it auto tracking the sun.....
lunarman
LIFE MEMBER
I started to build a solar tracker a couple of year ago. It's partially built but in the back of the workshop somewhere. Like most things, gathering heaps of dust. My main interest was to determine if the claimed gains of 30% increased output were achievable. Obviously this wasn't to go on top of my van. I suspect many liability issues would need to overcome prior to getting to that stage. Maybe one day I'll resurrect the project and put it on the workshop roof.
denisejoe
LIFE MEMBER
I wouldn’t like to keep getting up on roofto adjust solar panel
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The tracker can be as much as 30% more harvest when compared to a fixed south azimuth with a incline of 30-40 deg. I have a single axis manual tilt for the season, and I can tell you I get at least 10-15% more harvest. This is fixed south. If you track the sun up-sun down, you get a lot more.
A tracker can do 10kwh out of 1kwp in a day compared to 6-7kwh fixed. If you compare to the flat fixed on the van, then a tracker can improve harvest by 50% at least.
The challenge would be implementation of the mechanism on the roof, keep weight down and to be super strong for winds. As soon as you lift it, is like a sail.
A tracker can do 10kwh out of 1kwp in a day compared to 6-7kwh fixed. If you compare to the flat fixed on the van, then a tracker can improve harvest by 50% at least.
The challenge would be implementation of the mechanism on the roof, keep weight down and to be super strong for winds. As soon as you lift it, is like a sail.
OP
OP
Not on about a tracker ...just a way of raising and lowering it --possibly from inside the cab ?
That is doable. If you after a manual tilt mechanism, have a look a those Ariel thru the roof. They allow to rotate the Ariel from inside the van. You could have the panel hinged at the front, and a arm actuated at the back to lift it. Or a 12v linear actuator at the back of the panel, just a switch inside to turn it on and off.
hilldweller
LIFE MEMBER
the ultimate would be adapting a motorised sat system replacing the dish with a solar panel and it auto tracking the sun.....
As done by Snowbird last century.
And even available as a satdish with a panel on it's back.
eddie
LIFE MEMBER
the ultimate would be adapting a motorised sat system replacing the dish with a solar panel and it auto tracking the sun.....
Our ALDEN system automatically tracks the sun and controls it’s elevation
It even has electromagnetic feet on the “open side” which turn on when the engine is started
We have one on the Van Bitz exhibition unit if people want a demonstration at shows.
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eddie
LIFE MEMBER
It is about five times more efficient than a conventional flat solar panel
hilldweller
LIFE MEMBER
Can you document FIVE times ? And of course it's a small panel so it would need to be FIVE times better.
- Feb 22, 2011
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I think there's a lot to be said for carrying a loose solar panel (flexible if short on space) and simply plugged it in when pitched for a boost. If you have a long cable it can be positioned in sun and angled, whilst your van is parked in the shade 
For simplicity, I think that's the way I'd go.
For simplicity, I think that's the way I'd go.
And more than 5 times the price
eddie
LIFE MEMBER
The panel is 100w so not that small. The reason that it is so much more efficient is that it is perpendicular to the sun so much longer
A 100w solar panel can only produce what a 100w solar panel can produce, and a 100w solar panel is most efficient when it is pointing directly at the sun, so midday in the middle of the Summer.
With the Phenix it is "midday" all day and that is the difference.
I have plenty of roof space so fitted 3 x 150 watt panels with decent regulators which is much cheaper, but, when solar is essential, and roof space is extremely limited, and price isn't the number one criteria for deciding what equipment is bought, there is a place for it in the market
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hilldweller
LIFE MEMBER
I quoted the maths on that this week, sin(57) = 0.84 so you gain 20% by making it perpendicular to the sun. I'm really curious where the other 4.8 times comes from.
Anyway, there's not much else to do so might as well get picky like everyone else on FUN.
eddie
LIFE MEMBER
The fact that (your
) 20% gain is all day long.
I think you mean "up to five times". I think it will only beat a flat panel by that amount at the extremes of the day. Of course, the marketing material might wish you to believe otherwise...
eddie
LIFE MEMBER
OK So, the "yield" apparently is, on average five times that of a conventional flat mounted 100w panel.
This is because the Phenix 100w panel is in a polar axis, which means that the surface spins on an axis facing south and is tilted at an angle equal to latitude.
The rotation is adjusted so that the with the terrestrial meridian containing the sun's speed is 15 ° per hour,
What this means in real terms is that, I could sit outside the van (don't have one on my current camper) and at Sunset the 100w solar panel would be at a right angle to the roof of the motorhome, as the sun is sliding down over the horizon, still working, prior to automatically returning itself to its park position.
It will be working as efficiently as a conventional panel is at midday, from first thing in the morning till Sunset.
Nothing to do with marketing material.
However, the clever man that designed the automatic solar charging system, a system that is changing its elevation and its direction hourly, all day long, for maximum efficiency, knowing when to put itself to bed when the sun goes, is French and is, like me in lockdown.
But, if any one has a question about his statement that on average a tracking panel will produce on average five times more power than the same 100w panel flat mounted I am happy to put them to him for a response if it is a mathematically based question, questioning the maths, rather than a "I ain't got one, I can't afford one, it's rubbish" type of question
My company installs them, we didn't and couldn't design one, and frankly trigonometry was my Nemesis in mathematics, I struggled with the concept even using a calculator at School
This is because the Phenix 100w panel is in a polar axis, which means that the surface spins on an axis facing south and is tilted at an angle equal to latitude.
The rotation is adjusted so that the with the terrestrial meridian containing the sun's speed is 15 ° per hour,
What this means in real terms is that, I could sit outside the van (don't have one on my current camper) and at Sunset the 100w solar panel would be at a right angle to the roof of the motorhome, as the sun is sliding down over the horizon, still working, prior to automatically returning itself to its park position.
It will be working as efficiently as a conventional panel is at midday, from first thing in the morning till Sunset.
Nothing to do with marketing material.
However, the clever man that designed the automatic solar charging system, a system that is changing its elevation and its direction hourly, all day long, for maximum efficiency, knowing when to put itself to bed when the sun goes, is French and is, like me in lockdown.
But, if any one has a question about his statement that on average a tracking panel will produce on average five times more power than the same 100w panel flat mounted I am happy to put them to him for a response if it is a mathematically based question, questioning the maths, rather than a "I ain't got one, I can't afford one, it's rubbish" type of question
My company installs them, we didn't and couldn't design one, and frankly trigonometry was my Nemesis in mathematics, I struggled with the concept even using a calculator at School
I have looked at these systems several times but have yet to be convinced.
I have similar doubts about the claims made by those selling flat panels.
It would be interesting to compare the power obtained from a tracking panel with that of a stationary flat one of the same spec, over the same period of time.
At mid-day flat panel owners reckon they get 100W from their 100W panels. If that is true, angling it to face the sun better would be a waste of effort. I think they may be kidding themselves but, whatever the case, I don't think there'd be much difference between a flat panel and one perpendicular to the sun at mid-day. The biggest difference will be towards the end of the day and it's then that I might expect the angled panel to capture up to five times more. If a tracking panel caught five times more, overall, it would need to catch considerably more at the extremes to compensate for the comparative lack of performance either side of mid-day.
When the sun is low, there is less energy to catch than at mid-day because more of it is lost in the greater amount of atmosphere it has to pass through.
I am not trying to nit-pick. This is an interesting subject that I'm very keen to understand better.
I have similar doubts about the claims made by those selling flat panels.
It would be interesting to compare the power obtained from a tracking panel with that of a stationary flat one of the same spec, over the same period of time.
At mid-day flat panel owners reckon they get 100W from their 100W panels. If that is true, angling it to face the sun better would be a waste of effort. I think they may be kidding themselves but, whatever the case, I don't think there'd be much difference between a flat panel and one perpendicular to the sun at mid-day. The biggest difference will be towards the end of the day and it's then that I might expect the angled panel to capture up to five times more. If a tracking panel caught five times more, overall, it would need to catch considerably more at the extremes to compensate for the comparative lack of performance either side of mid-day.
When the sun is low, there is less energy to catch than at mid-day because more of it is lost in the greater amount of atmosphere it has to pass through.
I am not trying to nit-pick. This is an interesting subject that I'm very keen to understand better.
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Well most of us have plenty of time on our hands at the moment, perhaps the more interested who have a portable panel coud sit in the garden tracking the sun and report accordingly. By changing it every five minutes from tracking to flat a graph could be produced showing the comparison. Unfortunately I have been diagnosed with serious laziness and so am unable to take part in the experiment.
Perhaps we could measure the rate of tanning then? 
hilldweller
LIFE MEMBER
Now that is what I was asking about. The case I said was midday, but of course the angle is constantly changing. Eddie 1 : Brian 0.
The tracking side is trivial, you can do a simple system with under £20 for the computer bits.
Here is a mega simple system that uses the light itself so does not matter if the MH is not level. The other way of calculating the sun's track is out there in the public domain. The hard part is the mount, that needs proper job engineering for a MH.
Arduino Solar Tracker (Single or Dual Axis)
Arduino Solar Tracker (Single or Dual Axis): If you’ve installed solar panels on a camper van to provide you with electricity on your camping trip or at home to supplement your electricity usage or take your home completely off grid then you probably know that the panels work the best when the…
I've noticed on my travels that the huge solar farms are all fixed. Adding more panels is more cost effective the tracking.
Our bottom line, 200W flat panel and in the summer we were always charged up by mid day.
eddie
LIFE MEMBER
We actually did some side by side tests a few years ago and have the data in work somewhere, if we are all still alive after all of this
Unless space is an issue, as I keep saying, more panels is cheaper. We were due to be fitting one the day after we shut down, so will be no don’t be installing it sometime in June, so perfect for some side to side comparison
But a 100w panel works best between 11am and 1 pm as a rule of thumb, working least efficiently at dawn and dusk, exponentially improving / decreasing. With a system that rotates and changed its elevation all day long it is at midday “sweet spot” all day long
Unless space is an issue, as I keep saying, more panels is cheaper. We were due to be fitting one the day after we shut down, so will be no don’t be installing it sometime in June, so perfect for some side to side comparison
But a 100w panel works best between 11am and 1 pm as a rule of thumb, working least efficiently at dawn and dusk, exponentially improving / decreasing. With a system that rotates and changed its elevation all day long it is at midday “sweet spot” all day long
- Feb 22, 2011
- 10,863
- 22,900
- Funster No
- 15,397
- MH
- Hymer B544 A Class
- Exp
- Since 2015
Fixed at about 30-40' of course to capture maximum solar for as much of the day as possible
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Buy a one piece ladder, got mine fixed to the back door inside the bike carrier
I can tilt my 255watt panel if I can be bothered, it only really makes a difference early or late in the year.
I use an app called simply solar, it tells you where to point the panel, basically south and what angle to tilt it for the time of year and your latitude.
For the solar farms or the panels on your house roof it’s a compromise on the average solar angle for best power production as the cost to move a whole solar array would eat into the power produced.
From April to September if the suns out my starter and leisure batteries both 110Ah are usually charged by 11am and that’s flat on the roof.
I would say our power usage is probably quite low.
Led lights, avtex 19” tv, phone or iPad charging, water pump usage and what ever the fridge needs when on gas plus the small phantom drain our van may have although this seems to be extremely light.
I can tilt my 255watt panel if I can be bothered, it only really makes a difference early or late in the year.
I use an app called simply solar, it tells you where to point the panel, basically south and what angle to tilt it for the time of year and your latitude.
For the solar farms or the panels on your house roof it’s a compromise on the average solar angle for best power production as the cost to move a whole solar array would eat into the power produced.
From April to September if the suns out my starter and leisure batteries both 110Ah are usually charged by 11am and that’s flat on the roof.
I would say our power usage is probably quite low.
Led lights, avtex 19” tv, phone or iPad charging, water pump usage and what ever the fridge needs when on gas plus the small phantom drain our van may have although this seems to be extremely light.
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eddie
LIFE MEMBER
There is no need to spend £300k on a Morello, chuck a matress and a bucket in the back of a discarded builders van.
Lidl's sell a suitcase satellite system for £70
So you dont need to spend three grand on an Oyster satellite system
Or you can!
Lidl's sell a suitcase satellite system for £70
So you dont need to spend three grand on an Oyster satellite system
Or you can!
A lot cheaper.
Tracking panels, side by side, would also end up putting each other in the shade for some of the time.
Having concidered a home brew version i am in the interested camp not believer or non believer my question is, the cost power wise of monitoring / moving the system versus additional power gained and how often adjustments are made
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