I have a cunning plan. (1 Viewer)

[6pm Cowboy]

Maybe not original but obviously not being done.

Question – What is Britain sadly missing ?
Answer – Aires.

Question – Is it worth trying to get them ?
Answer – Probably not. The cost of laying on sewage disposal etc would put any council off.

But that doesn’t mean we should do nothing. There are alternatives.

Just down the road from my house in a small Oxfordshire village is a small car park ( maybe 30 cars ). It sits on the banks of the river Thames with good fishing and pleasant walks along the towpath in both directions. 200 yards away is a nice pub that does good meals A market town is only 1 hours stroll along the river. It would make an ideal stopover for touring motorhomes ( and caravans – ducking ) but there is a hieght barrier and anti sleeping notice on the car park.

Scenes like this must be repeated all over the country. Useful / scenic / conveinient / economy boosting places that frequently sit empty overnight just because of some ‘pointless’ rule.

Equally there must be thousands of inner/outer city car parks, park and rides, detached lay byes, etc, etc, all over the country that could be allowed / converted to suitable tourist stopovers at ZERO cost to councils or whoever.

They would have none of the facilities of a proper campsite. They would not be considered wild camping by most people…. But they would, I suspect, be welcommed by many.

I have retirement creeping up on me and I need something to think about, something to do, and maybe a small cost covering income otherwise, motorhome or no, I am going to vegitate into a grumpy and even more insular old man.

So I am going to start a campaign to get some of these underutilised spaces turned into ‘authourised stopovers’ and produce a book / cd / poi for general use. It will take a while, and build up slowly but I thinnk it is a good long term project.

Fire away folks.

 

[yorkshirepudding]

Good luck. Sounds like it will take up a lot of your impending retirement.

 

[Geo]

I think you will find it is being looked at
Graham on here has something running alreadyoh:
I may be wrong, so good luck with your campaign
Geo

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[twooks]

GYPSIES !!
TRAVELLERS !!

a two word answer received from Preston Borough Council and York P+R when I raised the issue of using car parks overnight to bring / encourage tourism

Can only stand back and admire persistence shown by people like Graham chipping away at these jobsworths

I did hear - admittedly about 3rd hand - that CC had raised objections to P+R being used to allow over-nighting near cities, can't imagine why

 

[zaskar]

..........and the very best of British luck to you:thumb:
Though frankly, i think a good starting point would be the purchase of a white coat and a black leather couch on castors.
the coat is to give you that "proffesional" look.
The castors on the couch will enable you to wheel it into every council office in the UK where you can hypnotise the beaurocratic halfwits with the words...........
Look into my eyes, lookinto my eyes, not around the eyes, but in the eyes CLICK your under.
OK, repeat after me............
"motorhomers are good, hardworking decent people who KNOW how to look after the countryside. They're not EVIL!"

Good luck mate, you'll need it!

 

[6pm Cowboy]

Hi all.
thanks for the quick ( if somewhat negative ) responses.

I have just spoken to Graham (GJH) , his site is doing sterling work but is listing what 'IS' rather than what I would like 'TO BE'.

All positive (and negative) vibes welcome, as would be any advice and suggestions.

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[GJH]

I think you will find it is being looked at
Graham on here has something running alreadyoh:
I may be wrong, so good luck with your campaign
Geo

My web site is aimed mainly at daytime parking - though there is a skeleton letter which could be used for approaches re Aires.

"6pm Graham" (as opposed to this Graham) is approaching the subject from a different angle, which is likely to be complementary and I wish it all the best.

One comment I will make is that calling council officers "jobsworths" or "bureaucratic halfwits" is number one in the recipe for failure. I've witnessed at first hand the problems which councils have with illegal campsites and the drain which they impose on funding (including the council tax we all pay). They are bound to want to avoid such problems when considering provision of facilities. The potential problem arose when we were having discussions with Redcar & Cleveland Council regarding Guisborough - and we overcame it by being constructive.

Motorhome parking facilities (both daytime and overnight) have increased in number over the last three years (if you don't believe me look at how my PoI set has grown). That is through the efforts of several people who have made positive approaches to councils. Absolutely nothing has come from whingers complaining about how unfair councils are.

Graham

 

[6pm Cowboy]

Thank you for your comments Graham. I will make a point of not heading my letters 'dear jobsworth;

A trade secret if you will..... have you found any difference between paper letters and emails ?

 

[twooks]

:Blush:sorry,
I think it's a great idea, but I think that there are too many vested interests against the prospect of people being Free to move around, stay when and where they want within reason and doing it all cheaply

the answer would seem to be to get teh council jobsworths to talk - no make that Listen - to their opposite nubers in other countries
The Netherlands started to introduce a scheme of Aires last time we were there, it may be instructive to know how and why.

Next year the Tall Ships are heading for Hartlepool [ yeah I know oh:] plan A included a Motorhome parking area with toilet / shower block along the prom about a mile from the harbour / marina. I wrote to them a couple of months ago asking for info and update - I know there is a loo block but no mention of overnight camping in recent brochures so what happened to this woooonderful idea.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..

.. .. .. .. .. ..

still waiting.

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[GJH]

Thank you for your comments Graham. I will make a point of not heading my letters 'dear jobsworth;

A trade secret if you will..... have you found any difference between paper letters and emails ?

I don't send paper letters - e-mail is cheaper and quicker. Worth putting a Return Receipt flag on though so that you know it's got there as sometimes e-mails can go missing.

When asking for information (FoI) there is absolutely no difference between paper and e-mail (though it may be necessary to provide a geographic address if information is only available in hard copy).

For approaches to councils which do not request information there isn't the same legal requirement but they should still respond. Worth putting a "what do you think of my idea" type comment in the message though.

Graham

 

[GJH]

sorry,
I think it's a great idea, but I think that there are too many vested interests against the prospect of people being Free to move around, stay when and where they want within reason and doing it all cheaply

Vested interests:
a) What are they?
b) Who holds them? Is it just public sector organisations?
c) How can they be overcome - as opposed to just complaining that they are there?

the answer would seem to be to get the council jobsworths to talk - no make that Listen - to their opposite nubers in other countries
The Netherlands started to introduce a scheme of Aires last time we were there, it may be instructive to know how and why.

Why not get in touch with the Dutch government to ask? By e-mail to their London embassy will probably be easiest.

Next year the Tall Ships are heading for Hartlepool [ yeah I know oh:] plan A included a Motorhome parking area with toilet / shower block along the prom about a mile from the harbour / marina. I wrote to them a couple of months ago asking for info and update - I know there is a loo block but no mention of overnight camping in recent brochures so what happened to this woooonderful idea.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..
.. .. .. .. .. ..

still waiting.

Again, why not get in touch with them to ask? Contact details for FoI at Hartlepool BC Link Removed.

Graham

 

[twooks]

PS to my [non] smoggy mate
didn't call 'em jobsworth to their faces - honest -
in fact I said I thought their approach was excellent and forward looking

..
..


so, on 2nd thoughts - perhaps I frightened them off oh:



'vested interests' - the ubiquitous 'they' I actually got on 1st name terms with the girl in Preston - and she did actually use the term 'more than my jobsworth' although she was laughing at the time - never got any names named tho
can possibly be overcome by establishing opposite vested interests - something like ooh CC or C&CC no! perhaps not

MHF did moot this idea once - banding together to present united front as did MMM re parking and height barriers - don't think either got very far - inertia is a powerful enemy
no longer 'member' with either


good idea about Netherlands :thumb:


still waiting for Hartlepool, .. .. ..
[also spend a lot of my time waiting for responses from their Social services too



keep taking the tablets :hug:

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[buttons]

Great idea but you are only thinking from a Motor home owner’s perspective. Believe it or not we are a minute part of the vehicle owning population.
I can only assume that this well maintained car park is there for a reason, you say it is a great spot plenty to see and do, sounds very nice, the sort of place that I would love to spend a summer’s day. Park the car, walk into the village spend some money, generally have a good day out. Problem is with these popular destinations you have to get there early or all the good spaces are full, end up walking miles into town. Bank holidays are the worst for getting parked, kids moaning about the walk, dad moaning about having to carry the picnic, wife getting her heals stuck in the mud.
Excuse my cynicism but why would local councils risk upsetting the majority of the voting population just to satisfy a few rich motor home owners. Not to mention the problem that travellers would created by taking the barrier down.
If this place is as nice as you say then I’m sure some forward thinking entrepreneur has already set up a nice site with all amenities close by. Car parks are by definition for cars and caravan sites are for caravans and motor homes simples.

 

[bigfoot]

If I may make a suggestion. with the increasing number of all singing and dancing out of town shopping centres,which have cinema and restaurants as well as the 'new leisure' pursuit of shopping,why not aproach the owners ( who generally are not local authorities) of these locations first. They have 24 hour security and additional facilities would be minimal. Using the examples of Walmart in the States and Canada especially those sited on their retail parks. MacArthur gGen did support CC club members by offering discount vouchers for their 'shopping villages' they obviously see the tourers pound as valuable.

 

[hilldweller]

All positive (and negative) vibes welcome, as would be any advice and suggestions.

Lovely idea - no chance.

How's that for negative !

As I see it, you have to convince a council employee and committee. Could you go out of you way and pick a worse task. No. The employee wants a simple life and a good pension, no stress ( they get time off for that anyway ), no ripples. The counsellor wants as many expenses as he can wring from the system, glory and re-election.

The first hint that "travellers" are going to be invited to squat in their idyllic village and the press has a field day. A residents committee headed Colonel Lionel Blimp-Hart III ( my grandfather, Lionel I, got rid of the blighters in Mafeking. No Blimp-Hart has ever failed I'll have you know ) will start a campaign to get the council employee fired, the counsellor thrown out of the masons and you frog marched out of the county.

If you pull it off I'll be the first to send you a bottle of Champagne. And deliver it in person on you new facility.

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[GJH]

.............As I see it, you have to convince a council employee and committee. Could you go out of you way and pick a worse task. No. The employee wants a simple life and a good pension, no stress ( they get time off for that anyway ), no ripples. The counsellor wants as many expenses as he can wring from the system, glory and re-election.............

Fountain Street at Guisborough, New Dover Road P&R at Canterbury, Ram Meadow at Bury St Edmunds. Just three examples of why that assertion is wrong.

Graham

 

[Wildman]

Good luck with the project.:thumb:

 

[6pm Cowboy]

Lovely idea - no chance.

How's that for negative !

As I see it, you have to convince a council employee and committee. Could you go out of you way and pick a worse task. No. The employee wants a simple life and a good pension, no stress ( they get time off for that anyway ), no ripples. The counsellor wants as many expenses as he can wring from the system, glory and re-election.

The first hint that "travellers" are going to be invited to squat in their idyllic village and the press has a field day. A residents committee headed Colonel Lionel Blimp-Hart III ( my grandfather, Lionel I, got rid of the blighters in Mafeking. No Blimp-Hart has ever failed I'll have you know ) will start a campaign to get the council employee fired, the counsellor thrown out of the masons and you frog marched out of the county.

If you pull it off I'll be the first to send you a bottle of Champagne. And deliver it in person on you new facility.

Thank you Brian. I knew I could rely on you

The traveller problem is an obvious drawback and the reason I was asking about laybys. Many car parks are chargeable and I dont see the allowing of overnight sleeping privileges changing this but I take your overall point and will bare it in mind.

I will hold you to the champaign. How many constitutes success ?

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[nozzmoking]

Sounds like a monumental task, so good luck with this. :thumb:

Re: French Aires. Does anyone know how long they've been in existance? Did they start off on a local basis and then spread nationwide, or was it a Government incentive at some stage? Just wondered about the history of Aires, and how they came into being.

 

[hilldweller]

Fountain Street at Guisborough, New Dover Road P&R at Canterbury, Ram Meadow at Bury St Edmunds. Just three examples of why that assertion is wrong.
Graham

That's good but I could say three exceptions that prove the rule. Rings a bell, is there not a P&R at Huntindon York as well ? Chester P&R ?

How many such opportunities in the UK ? 100,000 ?

Good luck to our resident cowboy outfit, it would be good to be proven wrong.

 

[barryd]

Good luck with this! If the French can do it why cant we? The gypsie / traveller argument doest stack up as in France they are loads of gypsie camps but I have never seen any on an Aire. They dont drive motorhomes for a start so the same rules could apply here. No Caravans, just motorhomes.

Clearly the French think it worthwhile to put in free Aires in many places and a small charge for Aires in popular premium sites such as Mont St Michel.

I have thought about tackling Barnard Castle council near where I live but havent got around to it and dont really know where to start.

Mind you my one concern is that yes it works in France and everybody seems to respect the rules and I have never seen any bad behaviour or people abusing the system. Can we Brits be trusted to act the same way over here. Jury is still out on that one IMO.

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[hilldweller]

I will hold you to the champaign. How many constitutes success ?

Just one and you've earned it.

Every single one makes another that much easier. Terrible time scale for us Olde Fartes. It needs a good year to be able to say "look at the benefits to the community", or not as the case may be.

Using them in France I've always been aware of the pros and cons. One I remember we arrived late afternoon. Walked around but chose to eat at home so no benefit to the community and no loss either. Then another we could not find anywhere we fancied eating but we spend a good bit in the supermarket. Another, we enjoyed a meal in a local restaurant. Just a different world over there. My advice is don't waste your time hitting your head against a UK brick wall, get over there and enjoy what the French have already. Then the Germans ( don't mention the war ) and the Italians.

 

[buttons]

The gypsie / traveller argument doest stack up as in France they are loads of gypsie camps but I have never seen any on an Aire. They dont drive motorhomes for a start so the same rules could apply here. No Caravans, just motorhomes.e IMO.

Bit naive perhaps but. Why no caravans. Surly they have as many rights to use public overnight facilities as motor homes. If they remain hooked up then what is the difference between the two?
Second point, many travellers do drive motor homes, it is a better option for a lot of them.

 

[ShiftZZ]

This may be of intrerest

http://www.airedrivewaysuk.co.uk/

Northern Ireland

Broughshane
Houston Mills. Just follow the brown tourist signs to Houston Mills (at the Larne end of the village) and park in its attractively arranged grounds.
Euro-Relais bourne (service point) for fresh water and grey and black water disposal.
Free overnight parking
£1 charge for services


And

http://www.prlog.org/10050593-repub...ice-to-be-established-in-county-limerick.html

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[6pm Cowboy]

Bit naive perhaps but. Why no caravans. Surly they have as many rights to use public overnight facilities as motor homes. If they remain hooked up then what is the difference between the two?
Second point, many travellers do drive motor homes, it is a better option for a lot of them.

hi buttons. My original post did include caravans. I am in full agreement with you.

 

[6pm Cowboy]

Fountain Street at Guisborough, New Dover Road P&R at Canterbury, Ram Meadow at Bury St Edmunds. Just three examples of why that assertion is wrong.

Graham

I take great comfort from that list Graham. it will be very usefull to quote a few councils already doing it when I write.

 

[GJH]

I take great comfort from that list Graham. it will be very usefull to quote a few councils already doing it when I write.

See Here for the full list of places I know of. Note, not all are council facilities so follow the links to check before quoting. Otherwise, please make free use of the information.

Graham

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[barryd]

Bit naive perhaps but. Why no caravans. Surly they have as many rights to use public overnight facilities as motor homes. If they remain hooked up then what is the difference between the two?
Second point, many travellers do drive motor homes, it is a better option for a lot of them.

I based my thoughts on the very successful French Aire formula. They do not allow caravans and it works. Caravans tend to want to stay in one place for longer and are less self contained than motorhomes. A caravan thats still hooked up could be considerably longer than a MH. The majority of Travelers have caravans and even if the odd one does have a MH he is likely to be with a large party dominated by caravans so a MH only Aire would be no good for them and they couldn’t park there. Finally and I am going to stick my neck out here. You can buy a cheap caravan for a couple of hundred quid. This may open up the Aire to dare I say it less desirable clientele. Follow the French formula and perhaps it has a chance, open it up to Caravans and no council anywhere will even entertain it. Sorry, just my opinion.

 

[buttons]

I based my thoughts on the very successful French Aire formula. They do not allow caravans and it works. Caravans tend to want to stay in one place for longer and are less self contained than motorhomes. A caravan thats still hooked up could be considerably longer than a MH. The majority of Travelers have caravans and even if the odd one does have a MH he is likely to be with a large party dominated by caravans so a MH only Aire would be no good for them and they couldn’t park there. Finally and I am going to stick my neck out here. You can buy a cheap caravan for a couple of hundred quid. This may open up the Aire to dare I say it less desirable clientele. Follow the French formula and perhaps it has a chance, open it up to Caravans and no council anywhere will even entertain it. Sorry, just my opinion.

Barryd. "You can’t be serious"

One other point. The French eat Frogs snails and horses and pee at the side of the road. We barryd are not French and this is definitely not France.

 

[twooks]

Barryd. "You can’t be serious"

One other point. The French eat Frogs snails and horses and pee at the side of the road. We barryd are not French and this is definitely not France.

not keen on snails, [or whelks for that matter] but what's the problem with the rest of the list
they haven't seen their currency devalue at breakneck rate in the last year either
they can get fresh bread at civilised hours
they appear to have more civic pride - certainly their towns and villages invariably appear cleaner and tidier
their diesel is a better price
they weren't stupid enough to support GWB and his plonkers
they welcome motorhomes
they're a republic


there are undoubtedly many things that are not so good in France - but give credit where and when it is due

vive la difference, and cherry pick the best bits :thumb:

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