Discussion in 'Motorhome Chat' started by GWAYGWAY, Oct 31, 2018.
Yes they do. & I've seen one run out of both electric & fuel for the engine/charger on the M4.
Sorry, I dont think i have explained properly....charging battery in Hybrid gives help to the petrol engine for 300-400 miles
Last user did 1000 hybrid miles and used petrol at 78 mpg on 3 x 3hour charges
Never once had to worry about range
Currently all-electric cars are a nonsense in the real world, imagine the trip hazard on a terraced street, but more seriously, if eveyone bought an electric car tomorrow, there are not enough kilowatts to go around.
I think I understood.
Obviously you don't worry about range because it's a petrol car ( or diesel ) but 9kWh of electricity is so little it means nothing compared to the high cost/complexity of the vehicle.
78 mpg, OK very impressive but now factor in the cost compared to a normal vehicle.
Ah well, just saying
sorry replied in wrong place
Not going to respond to your entire post but will just pull out a few points.
There has been many many electric cars produced over the last couple of decades. It wasn't until the Tesla Roadster came out and used LiIon batteries that the flood of new ones started.
These were not produced to test the market, they were what is known as compliance cars. California was suffering from major smog problems and the CARB (Carlifornia Air Resource Board) brought in rules to control emissions. The EV1 was a compliance car produced to satisfy the new regulations. The rest of the industry fought the new regulations and won. GM promptly pulled back all the leases for these cars and destroyed them all. They didn't want any part of this unprofitable market segment. They Used NiMH batteries not LiIon.
This is a story spread by those who don't actually know the facts and are just negative on ALL forms of EV. When you look at the weight of the Engine, Gear box, Transmission and other parts of the drive train, the weight is equivalent to that of an electric motor and batteries. With an electric truck you also lose a fair bit of weight from the braking system due to regen braking etc. Lose the HUGE fuel tanks and you gain some more weight for batteries. The list goes on. Believe me when I say this, Tesla have pre-sold a load of their trucks with a 500 mile range. The companies that they have pre-sold to will have asked about this extremely basic and core question. What payload will I have? They have obviously received an answer they are happy with and then placed hundreds if not thousands of orders. The truck has just completed a round trip in the USA and did this with only a driver and no team of technicians so it is obviously close to ready.
The second had value of a battery remains high and will do for the foreseeable future. Current batteries have an 8 year warranty on them, so we can't expect to see masses of them hitting the second hand market until 8 years from now when the 100'000 Model 3 batteries start to pass through end of warranty. Even then there will not be a sudden huge rush.
Demand for second life batteries outstrip supply by such a magnitude we can genuinely see them maintain value for the next 10 to 20 years. Even after they have lost enough capacity to mean they are not suitable for second life usage they still have high value for their core materials. The cobalt alone is worth the recovery process and Tesla amongst others is working to improve the recycling process. Because each manufacturer will have a decent supply of identical batteries hitting end of life they be able to automate and standardise the recycling process making it much more practical than it is today. Full recycling of LiIon batteries will become a reality of the next 3-5 years according to the reports I have seen.
We have had a Nissan Leaf tekna for a month now and simply LOVE it. Even getting free electric charging at Lidl.
Done 1300 miles in the last four weeks. Brilliant vehicle
Not going to get one now, sticking with the Fiesta as it is still as strong as ever and suits me for the moment
Isn't that a hybrid?
As far as I can see there are 2 ways of doing hybrid ( unless I don't understand the terminology ).
1. Almost normal petrol car with an electric motor feeding power into the drive train -- very complex.
2. Normal electric car with a neat efficient gennie hidden somewhere -- mega simple. Just a question of how big the battery is and how big the gennie is.
Horse and cart it is then
Sorry I am late to this thread. I have quickly read most of the messages, so I hope I do not drone on about stuff other people have covered already.
I have had my Zoe for just over three years, have now done about 20,000 miles and I love it. The driving experience is quiet, nippy and smooth, and IMO better than any average ICE cars.
Owning a EV at this point in time is still 'horses for courses', and it depends on the type of travelling people do and their charging facilities at home (is the car usually parked on or off the public roads, can a charger be installed close to the parking spot, do they live in a upper floor flat etc. etc.).
I own the battery in my car (a 'Zoe i' version), so do not have to worry about the Renault rental system, which to be perfectly honest would have been a deal breaker if that was the only option available to me when I was in the market to buy. I was also very fortunate that I was able to buy and had the cash available when Renault had one of their short special deals, offering a grant of £7,500 deposit + the government's grant (at that time £5,000) + free install of the charger, which brought the car down to a very affordable level.
The car is charged from the PV solar array on my roof unless I am on a longer journey, so I get the benefit of 'free' electricity to keep the battery topped up.
99% of my journeys all year (not in the MH!) are less than 50 miles round trips, so an EV fits in with my lifestyle because when I get home, I just plug the car in and forget it until I need it again. The only bother I have had with it since new was a couple of months ago when my home charger decided to misbehave (it has now been replaced under warranty) and it scrambled the software in the car, causing it to show all sorts of strange warnings on the dash. It went into the dealers workshop on the back of a flatbed and was sorted (also under warranty) in a couple of days. It had to have all its software and firmware completely reformatted and reloaded; it is after all, a mobile computer. Since that reload the car been great, I detect it is driving better and charging quicker than it ever has done, so I am wondering if the charger problem had been arising for some while.
The longest journey I have done without charging was a journey from near Penzance in Cornwall to Padstow and back (49 miles each way) and with some to'ing' and fro'ing' while in Padstow, I got home with 103 miles showing on the trip dial, and it had an estimated 12 miles range left in the battery. That was driving in my normal manner, I was not attempting to drive especially frugally or carefully.
I have done several long trips where I have covered several hundred miles each time (Somerset, Dorset, Hampshire), charging up at publicly available rapid chargers (time for a pee and coffee) about every 70 - 90 miles, but obviously, for anyone in a hurry, that will not work.
As I said above, owning and using an EV is 'horses for courses', and if it does not fit into your lifestyle, then it would be the wrong choice. However, if the majority of your journeys are short, and/or if you have access to a ICE car for longer journeys, and you have somewhere to install a charger at home, then go for it, you will not regret it.
That's as I understand it. I thought, because of the way you stated it, that you were coming up with an alternative to current hybrids. A friend bought an early Honda hybrid. The electric motor / generator was concentric with the flywheel end of the crankshaft. Even back then (probably 10 years ago) it was pretty sophisticated in that there were no choices to be made by the driver. From his description it normally used the petrol engine to both power the car and to re-charge the battery and only when the little 3 cylinder engine couldn't meet the requirements of the driver did the electric motor assist. He said it was seamless and the vehicle responded to the accelerator in the same way as if the petrol engine was much bigger. A reversal of how I normally think of hybrids.
There is the third way as well- LNG( Liquid Natural Gas) / Electric
And the 4th way- CNG(Compressed Natural Gas)/Electric
This is another scam by the government to fleece us all again,once upon a time diesels were better then petrol for the environment now they are demons on the road after we all changed to diesels,
now we are told to go electric so the government can rip us all off again by road pricing per mile, pay as you drive which will net the government billions a year,and costing us a fortune per day.
1. HEV. Hybrid. No plug in, supposedly "self charging". Basically battery assistance. e.g. Most Lexus.
2. PHEV. Plug in hybrid. As the name suggests. Allows around 10 to 30 electric only miles, depending on manufacturer, or combo hybrid driving. e.g. Golf GTE.
3. REX. Range extender. Runs on electric only, with a small "generator" engine to extend range. e.g. Ampera and some BMW i3's.
4. BEV. Battery electric vehicle. Full electric only, now with real world ranges of over 300 miles on a single charge! e. g. Tesla, Hyundai Kona 64, Kia e-Niro 64.
Probably not really worth mentioning Diesel hybrid or Hydrogen.
That kind of sums up the main choices.
Good chance that trucks will go gas/electric
@Cheshirecat57 I think Tesla are already testing some in The States, 500 mile range from what i hear. I guess the next thing will be mild hybrid Ducato/Sprinter/Transit type vehicles, which will be directly transferable to motorhomes. The usual problem applies though... weight! Even the batteries in a mild hybrid are very heavy, so can't see how they could do it at the present 3.5 ton limit!
Just in the news. Suggesting some businesses were buying PHEV vehicles just to get the grant and we’re never using their electric capability at all
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