Hymer pursuing the cheapening of their best models

[StephDeLux]

Hi

It's official:

• no more AL-KO
• simplified furnishing, look at the bedroom and compare to the one in Exsis-t 588. Other parts as well
• no more 2 meters long bed
• cheaper fridge

The perfect way to ruin a good name.

 

[Speve]

Unfortunately I think it’s all about weight and using lightweight materials that don’t cut the mustard as you say a shame.?

 

[Lenny HB]

Losing the Al-Ko not good & the Fiat chassis will add 50kg to the weight.

They have been making the furniture lighter & crapier for a few years now.

They are only showing one model at the moment, 2m beds were only in the longer ones anyway, so there probably will be one.

They have been fitting Thethfordfridges in the base models for years if you have the bigger fridge upgrade you get a Dometic.

Our DL looks nice inside but the lightweight furniture is still crap.

 

[bellabee]

Am I right in understanding that this chassis is specially designed for motor homes? Is it a brand new design, or one which is already being used? They 're claiming in the catalogue that it is 'optimal in terms of cost, comfort and safety'
Is it just the cynic in me that thinks that cost might be the priority for them, or is it also better than Al-ko in terms of comfort and safety, too?
I'm a non-technical person, so bow to the superior knowledge of others.
What I do like, though, is that they seem to have got rid of the drop-down bed, and the living area is 'step-free.'
Having said that, I know that the Exis is hugely popular, but it's never really appealed to me.

 

[StephDeLux]

The Fiat camper chassis they use now is the base of most motorhomes in circulation. It is not a bad chassis, but there are 3 things that make it worse than the Al-Ko:

• it remains pretty utilitarian with its rigid axle and leaf springs. I remember having it in our Burstner and it wasn't kind with the furniture. Losts of bangs and crashes.
• it is much heavier than the Al-Ko, eating into the payload.
• It sits on top of the axle, making the motorhome higher in the rear

The Al-Ko, conversely, has the following advantages:

• Independant suspension with torsion bars. Still prettu stiff, but more civilized.
• Lighter and made of galvanized iron, very rust resistant,
• Lower, alllowing for deep double floors
• Customizable to the motorhome biulder specifications

Of course it is more expensive.

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[StephDeLux]

Losing the Al-Ko not good & the Fiat chassis will add 50kg to the weight.

They have been making the furniture lighter & crapier for a few years now.

They are only showing one model at the moment, 2m beds were only in the longer ones anyway, so there probably will be one.

They have been fitting Thethfordfridges in the base models for years if you have the bigger fridge upgrade you get a Dometic.

Our DL looks nice inside but the lightweight furniture is still crap.

Inidentally, the new cheaper Exsis having the exact interior of the MC-T 580 shows what a rip-off the Moderncomfort line is.

 

[Jaws]

Like I have said many times before, I never buy or seriously look at ANY motorhome built after 2007
Lets face it , the base vehicles are designed to do a million miles, so not an issue.
Motorhoming took a massive leap in popularity in 07 and not one of the builders could keep up with demand
The build quality took a dive as did the component quality..

Whilst I am sure there are many many good motorhomes out there with a later build date, you only have to read this or any other forum to see how things went down hill..... and I canna see things getting any better as the great god Moola dictates all things more and more

 

[hymerman]

I think that the quality of Hymer declined from about 2007, around the time that Erwin Hymer stopped running the company and accountants not engineers were put in charge. I've had a number of old Hymers and couldn't fault any of them, good solid construction. I believe that to remain competitive they've had to cut costs, maybe I'm wrong but even a dealer agreed with me. My current van is 2001, no damp and everything works as it should.

 

[Jaws]

I think that the quality of Hymer declined from about 2007,

So I am not the only one who has that year marked down as the last of the good 'uns then

 

[Blue Knight]

On a positive note it's nice to see the rest of the world trying to copy the UK and reproduce the same crappy standards as found in a typical Brtiish van.

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[ianthebuilder]

Does that mean my old Helga is holding her money better now!! Lol

 

[Emmit]

Don't write off ALL 57 vans.
Our Hobby is from 2005 but they were that busy trying to churn out X250's our X244 got left behind and didn't get on the road until Sept 2007.
No "Juddergate" with our 2.8 lump.

 

[wiljoy]

On a positive note it's nice to see the rest of the world trying to copy the UK and reproduce the same crappy standards as found in a typical Brtiish van.

The problem now is most of the foreign manufacturers own nearly all the British crap manufacturers. Hymer are churning out leaky vans near me (Elddis/Compass) with the so called Solid constriction falling apart. The whole industry is making rubbish. Van conversions are the way to go.

 

[StephDeLux]

The problem now is most of the foreign manufacturers own nearly all the British crap manufacturers. Hymer are churning out leaky vans near me (Elddis/Compass) with the so called Solid constriction falling apart. The whole industry is making rubbish. Van conversions are the way to go.

We visited a Carthago dealer yesterday and came way impressed. I'm sure they are not like they used to be, but they remain impressive. Of course they do not make budget motorhomes.

The big problem with PVC is using them in winter, especially in continental winter at the mountains. They are really not made for that.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

The model you mention is the same as my MLI 580 and the ML 580, from the seats back No problem with the space really, it wouls be nicer to have more but going into smaer places made me appreciate the total width of the whole van,

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[StephDeLux]

The model you mention is the same as my MLI 580 and the ML 580, from the seats back No problem with the space really, it wouls be nicer to have more but going into smaer places made me appreciate the total width of the whole van,

I'm not criticizing the space, really. And the MC 580 (which I criticized)is not the same as the ML 580, an older model, which is kind of halfway in design between the 2019 Exsis 588 and the MC 580.

The ML series share the same width as the Exsis series, while the MC series is wider.

In the ML series we already find the cheaper Thetford fridge but at least we keep the nice bedroom, albeit without a 2 meters long bed, which makes it difficult to use for tall(ish) people.

 

[maison]

We visited a Carthago dealer yesterday and came way impressed. I'm sure they are not like they used to be, but they remain impressive. Of course they do not make budget motorhomes.

The big problem with PVC is using them in winter, especially in continental winter at the mountains. They are really not made for that.

We have never been in the high mountains in winter but last December we were in Belgium, (Bruges, Ghent and countryside), in temperatures during the day of -4C and nighttime temperatures of as low as -10C.

We were perfectly warm in our PVC although I accept high mountain temperatures could be much lower than we experienced. However, as we are not skiers we are unlikely ever to have the need to be in the mountains in winter.

 

[StephDeLux]

We have never been in the high mountains in winter but last December we were in Belgium, (Bruges, Ghent and countryside), in temperatures during the day of -4C and nighttime temperatures of as low as -10C.

We were perfectly warm in our PVC although I accept high mountain temperatures could be much lower than we experienced. However, as we are not skiers we are unlikely ever to have the need to be in the mountains in winter.

I wasn't saying it is not possible to use a PVC in continental winter. I was saying they are not designed for that. And I know from experience they quickly become uncomfortable when there is a cold wind, not even freezing. But anyway, PVCs were not the topic.

 

[maison]

I wasn't saying it is not possible to use a PVC in continental winter. I was saying they are not designed for that. And I know from experience they quickly become uncomfortable when there is a cold wind, not even freezing. But anyway, PVCs were not the topic.

I fully accept your comments re PVCs maybe not being the best choice for winter use in high mountains but, uncomfortable in a cold wind??

 

[StephDeLux]

I fully accept your comments re PVCs maybe not being the best choice for winter use in high mountains but, uncomfortable in a cold wind??

We were in the Loire region in France in May 2010 with a rented Pössl 2Win. It was an unusually cold May with a very frequent strongish North wind. Temperatures around 2-3°C at night, maximum 10-12°C during the day. That Pössl model was equipped with 2 gaz bottles of like 6kgs, or was it 7? Anyway, we had planned 2 weeks and the gaz did not last that long. Of course I had to go out and change during a night. The heating, being 4Kw, was of course easily able to get the interior warm enough, but my spouse could not sleep on the door side, too cold.

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[tony_g]

We'll, our 67 reg Exsis 564t on the ALKO chassis has held up well round France, Spain, Austria, Germany, France, Switzerland, Italy, Greece, Italy, Switzerland, France, Germany, Belgium, France. 14000 miles since 01/18. Lifesaver when I got to 70 and couldn't confidently hope to keep my 'grandad rights'. The new Exsis looks like a backward step, though.

 

[StephDeLux]

The new Exsis looks like a backward step, though.

Quite.

 

[CazPaul]

Like I have said many times before, I never buy or seriously look at ANY motorhome built after 2007
Lets face it , the base vehicles are designed to do a million miles, so not an issue.
Motorhoming took a massive leap in popularity in 07 and not one of the builders could keep up with demand
The build quality took a dive as did the component quality..

Whilst I am sure there are many many good motorhomes out there with a later build date, you only have to read this or any other forum to see how things went down hill..... and I canna see things getting any better as the great god Moola dictates all things more and more

Yes fully agree with all that, that's why we have a 2005 model, built like a tank.

 

[maison]

We were in the Loire region in France in May 2010 with a rented Pössl 2Win. It was an unusually cold May with a very frequent strongish North wind. Temperatures around 2-3°C at night, maximum 10-12°C during the day. That Pössl model was equipped with 2 gaz bottles of like 6kgs, or was it 7? Anyway, we had planned 2 weeks and the gaz did not last that long. Of course I had to go out and change during a night. The heating, being 4Kw, was of course easily able to get the interior warm enough, but my spouse could not sleep on the door side, too cold.

I accept your personal experience but would point out that insulation values have improved considerably since 2010. Anyway I don’t want to “highjack the original thread any further so this will be my last post on this thread.

 

[wiljoy]

We visited a Carthago dealer yesterday and came way impressed. I'm sure they are not like they used to be, but they remain impressive. Of course they do not make budget motorhomes.

The big problem with PVC is using them in winter, especially in continental winter at the mountains. They are really not made for that.

Totally agree. We have a Carthago and it us the worst van we've ever owned for the insulation quality.
The interior feels as if they haven't fitted any. Freezing in winter and boiling hot in the summer. Our other 12 vans performed very well in every climate especially the Bentley models.
We've never hesitated to change our van after 4 years but are now terrified as there is so much junk for sale in the new market.
We've decided to go down the van conversion route with a local converter when we change.

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[StephDeLux]

Totally agree. We have a Carthago and it us the worst van we've ever owned for the insulation quality.
The interior feels as if they haven't fitted any. Freezing in winter and boiling hot in the summer. Our other 12 vans performed very well in every climate especially the Bentley models.
We've never hesitated to change our van after 4 years but are now terrified as there is so much junk for sale in the new market.
We've decided to go down the van conversion route with a local converter when we change.

So, what I was saying was that the Carthago vans have positively impressed us.

And that using Panel Van Conversions in winter can be a challenge.

 

[CazPaul]

Totally agree. We have a Carthago and it us the worst van we've ever owned for the insulation quality.
The interior feels as if they haven't fitted any. Freezing in winter and boiling hot in the summer. Our other 12 vans performed very well in every climate especially the Bentley models.
We've never hesitated to change our van after 4 years but are now terrified as there is so much junk for sale in the new market.
We've decided to go down the van conversion route with a local converter when we change.

That the first time I have ever heard anyone saying a Carthago was cold, did it have Alde?

 

[Lenny HB]

Totally agree. We have a Carthago and it us the worst van we've ever owned for the insulation quality.
The interior feels as if they haven't fitted any. Freezing in winter and boiling hot in the summer. Our other 12 vans performed very well in every climate especially the Bentley models.
We've never hesitated to change our van after 4 years but are now terrified as there is so much junk for sale in the new market.
We've decided to go down the van conversion route with a local converter when we change.

I don't see that they use RTM hard foam insulation, no cold bridges on the body joints, a double floor. Insulation levels are better than Hymers and far superior to any British built van.

 

[wiljoy]

So, what I was saying was that the Carthago vans have positively impressed us.

And that using Panel Van Conversions in winter can be a challenge.

Sorry I misread you. We bought ours based on the name but the tool box that I carry is still as big as ever.

 

[Blue Knight]

I don't see that they use RTM hard foam insulation, no cold bridges on the body joints, a double floor. Insulation levels are better than Hymers and far superior to any British built van.

Is it true that you've just put a deposit down on an Autotrail Lenny

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