Hymer Mercedes Turbo Woes (1 Viewer)

[DavidG58]

Seeing problems with Mercedes is prompting some "no problems with Fiat " but dont forget the reversing saga a few years back

IVECO it will have to be then, any N+B Flairs for sale ?

 

[Vouty]

hi david, sorry to hear of your turbo woes. getting our van back tomorrow after our fuel pump started playing up a couple of weeks back and sent us into limp mode on the mother of all hills with lots of angry HGVs behind. ours is a mercedes too, but you kind of expect some issues on an 18 year old van regardless of make. hope you get it fixed soon.

 

[fifthwheel]

Thanks, I was confused by your reference to checking vanes and presumed you meant the whole turbo, I sent both links through to my fitter will discuss further on Monday

I don't know which turbo you have fitted to your engine but I have just changed a Garrett turbo fitted to a 220cdi Merc. That had vanes in it that when connected to the actuator via a rod it regulated the air boost to the engine. These vanes can stick sometimes through lack of use and when the actuator tries to move the rod the plastic gears inside fail. Not all turbos operate like this some are controlled by vacuum instead of an electronic actuator and in turn dump the surplus air through a waste gate. You can check which one you have by checking to see if yours has an air pipe or a wire to operate it. I would think from what you say you have the electronic version. I will try to find a drawing on line and come back to you.

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[fifthwheel]

Vacuum controlled. http://www.gap-turbos.com/find-your...part-number/?gclid=COytpMnal8cCFWoJwwodyh0KBw

Electronic controlled

 

[fifthwheel]

Have a look at the link above the pic of turbo it shows both types further down the page. regards john.

 

[DavidG58]

Vacuum controlled. http://www.gap-turbos.com/find-your...part-number/?gclid=COytpMnal8cCFWoJwwodyh0KBw

Electronic controlled

I have to presume you are right, I have zero knowledge of under bonnet goings on, even filling screen wash has its hazards

but I am really grateful for your input and have passed it on

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[funflair]

IVECO it will have to be then, any N+B Flairs for sale ?

Not ours that's for sure, but go on "you know you want to".

To be fair I think the Iveco is a pretty good base but nothing mechanical is 100% reliable, and more and more electronics are creeping into these vehicles.

Martin

 

[Neilfg]

Looked up sanguine cant drink it, it can't apply to me

Typed it and thought is that right (looked it up to check).

Carthago very nice, as is Rapido, but layout is king and when its right you have no choice as we found out with Frankia. Although you do appear to have been changing van this year, just bit by bit rather than all in one go.

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

This appears to be an electronic control for a variable vane turbo. The idea is that the rotor vanes take lots of air at low revs to spool up quickly and adjusts the vanes to accept less air at high revs. The connection between the electric motor and the turbo is through plastic gears which have failed.
I believe the turbo is a Garrett unit and would be looking for a Garrett turbo dealer to supply either a new unit or repair the one you have. I guarantee that Mercedes do not make the turbo ( possibly they have the sole rights for supply but unlikely) so if you can buy direct, you should be looking at least 30% cheaper. Have a look but you really need the part number off yours to make sense of it as there are so many almost the same but not quite.

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[jongood]

IMO, They all have their issues mechanically. They are complex and expensive vehicles and these days it doesnt matter what you ve got - its all expensive to fix when it goes wrong.

At the end of the day engine stuff can be changed and the real issue here is a reluctance to stump up the couple of grand ( fitted?) to fix it, yes I know its annoying but you might as well just grin and bear it and get it back as soon as possible.

Consider the enjoyment you get from it, the quality of the fittings and the layout that suits you. Do you want to be the guy whos driving the pre- electronics version. in lane 1 doing 50mph with his earpphones on for the noise and a constant smell of damp or do you want to be the guy that sweeps past him in your palace on wheels?

Jon

.

 

[DavidG58]

No real reluctance Jon, the thread was a way to spread my pain and for others maybe to learn something

I don't really mind the money bit, although it would be nicer to spend it travelling, but I do recall any number of comments when I bought this MH, from MHers and others asking what on earth will you do if you need serious engine work, due to access issues

Well now I guess we will have to find out, maybe my next one will not be an A class, but that would be a shame , in reality when mended I doubt I will be changing having added E + P jacks and VS air suspension this year already I think we are more or less committed to it

I like the idea of getting a turbo direct from the manufacturers, but it opens up another level of risk of it being very slightly modified by Mercedes to stop me doing just that, probably simplest just to get on with the Mercedes part in the first place

Having originally feared my gearbox had failed and thinking figures much higher, in a funny way I am sort of pleased with a £2K bill

 

[DavidG58]

This appears to be an electronic control for a variable vane turbo. The idea is that the rotor vanes take lots of air at low revs to spool up quickly and adjusts the vanes to accept less air at high revs. The connection between the electric motor and the turbo is through plastic gears which have failed.
I believe the turbo is a Garrett unit and would be looking for a Garrett turbo dealer to supply either a new unit or repair the one you have. I guarantee that Mercedes do not make the turbo ( possibly they have the sole rights for supply but unlikely) so if you can buy direct, you should be looking at least 30% cheaper. Have a look but you really need the part number off yours to make sense of it as there are so many almost the same but not quite.

I am not even so sure the gears have failed, as the condition is intermittent although getting more permanent, when I started up yesterday to go to workshop, I went 5 miles r so before the limp mode cut in and management light came on

But a refurb would be a reasonable option, although it might delay things too much, we have travel plans, that saving a few £100 in the whole of lifes financial package doesn't really make sense

I still favour repairing ours when out somebody must need the same as I am just buying, might recover some of the money that way, or maybe even the Garrett dealer might buy it faulty

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[funflair]

Hi David

You said earlier that your mechanic did a lot of Mercedes work so just go with his recommendation as he should know what he is doing.

I don't think you will gain anything by changing vans, they are all complicated beasts and yours is a nice van with a nice engine gearbox package and you are just getting the spec (toys) as you want it.

Martin

 

[fifthwheel]

This appears to be an electronic control for a variable vane turbo. The idea is that the rotor vanes take lots of air at low revs to spool up quickly and adjusts the vanes to accept less air at high revs. The connection between the electric motor and the turbo is through plastic gears which have failed.
I believe the turbo is a Garrett unit and would be looking for a Garrett turbo dealer to supply either a new unit or repair the one you have. I guarantee that Mercedes do not make the turbo ( possibly they have the sole rights for supply but unlikely) so if you can buy direct, you should be looking at least 30% cheaper. Have a look but you really need the part number off yours to make sense of it as there are so many almost the same but not quite.

The OP if I am understanding correctly has been told the actuator is at fault. The turbo is ok so my the links to the two companies is really all he needs. Why would he need to spend unnecessary money on a new turbo? The gears in the actuator don't often fail but the electronics do, his nearest company is ECU testing they do a good job. Most turbo main agents will not or can not sell you an actuator on its own from my experience. I really cant see your point directing him this way.

 

[fifthwheel]

The OP if I am understanding correctly has been told the actuator is at fault. The turbo is ok so my the links to the two companies is really all he needs. Why would he need to spend unnecessary money on a new turbo? The gears in the actuator don't often fail but the electronics do, his nearest company is ECU testing they do a good job. Most turbo main agents will not or can not sell you an actuator on its own from my experience. I really cant see your point directing him this way.

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[DavidG58]

The OP if I am understanding correctly has been told the actuator is at fault. The turbo is ok so my the links to the two companies is really all he needs. Why would he need to spend unnecessary money on a new turbo? The gears in the actuator don't often fail but the electronics do, his nearest company is ECU testing they do a good job. Most turbo main agents will not or can not sell you an actuator on its own from my experience. I really cant see your point directing him this way.

First thing Monday my engineer is calling ECU, he has heard of them but not used them.

See what they have to say and go from there

The other and still a major potential issue, he has no idea how to get access to the turbo, through what I know as the bonnet he is calling a letter box, in fairness to him you cant even get your head in to look at anything

Will update when I next know any more

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

The OP if I am understanding correctly has been told the actuator is at fault. The turbo is ok so my the links to the two companies is really all he needs. Why would he need to spend unnecessary money on a new turbo? The gears in the actuator don't often fail but the electronics do, his nearest company is ECU testing they do a good job. Most turbo main agents will not or can not sell you an actuator on its own from my experience. I really cant see your point directing him this way.

I am not directing him in any way just offering some advise in that Mercedes do not make the turbo so using Garrett would be cheaper if his mechanic told him one was needed. The main problem with offering these pearls of wisdom is that as far as I can tell the fault has not been conclusively diagnosed.
What I do know is that the unit is designed to be fitted as a complete unit and fitting the actuator may work but also there is the possibility that the vane angle adjusting eccentric has caused the original problem. If partially seized, this would also create an intermittent fault. Until it is removed and tested, the condition is unknown and possibly not ok.
I have rebuilt two engines where the turbo has failed and can assure you that if the turbo 'lets go', the cost is a lot more than the turbo. Fitting a new or exchange unit will have a warranty. Fitting selective parts will have warranty on them only and if something more serious happens, the chances of compensation is usually nil.

 

[rolandrat]

Some years ago I had a turbo blow on a Rolls Royce Eagle that was fitted in an ERF tractor pulling a loaded ADR tank going over the high level in Middlesboro. There was no warning just an all mighty bang and a cloud of blue smoke. I stopped the engine straight away. A recovery company towed me to a garage where a new turbo was fitted. No damage had been done to the engine so I was on my way in no time.

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[fifthwheel]

I am not directing him in any way just offering some advise in that Mercedes do not make the turbo so using Garrett would be cheaper if his mechanic told him one was needed. The main problem with offering these pearls of wisdom is that as far as I can tell the fault has not been conclusively diagnosed.
What I do know is that the unit is designed to be fitted as a complete unit and fitting the actuator may work but also there is the possibility that the vane angle adjusting eccentric has caused the original problem. If partially seized, this would also create an intermittent fault. Until it is removed and tested, the condition is unknown and possibly not ok.
I have rebuilt two engines where the turbo has failed and can assure you that if the turbo 'lets go', the cost is a lot more than the turbo. Fitting a new or exchange unit will have a warranty. Fitting selective parts will have warranty on them only and if something more serious happens, the chances of compensation is usually nil.

The unit does not have to be fitted as a complete unit. After all they were made separately. The actuator can be fitted to the turbo separately as we have done in the past. Just as long as the operating rod is fitted at rest and so that no strain is on the actuator, if not fitted correctly it will bring the engine light on. A few posts back I mentioned checking for seized/sticking vanes, its easy to check as the operating rod moves very freely when disconnected from the actuator. I do know what its like to have turbo failure I have been self employed over 45 years and have run earthmoving machinery and road trucks during this time. Believe me I have had plenty "let go" in that time. Without reading every post I don't know if this van has been plugged in to Mercedes Star diagnostics, if not I would suggest doing so as some garages test with what they have and sometimes don't find the fault. There are some good independent Merc garages with Star diagnostics nothing beats the real thing.

 

[DavidG58]

Latest position, is this, the box of too clever for their own good electronics have been removed from the side of the turbo. Apparently an awful lot easier than removing the whole turbo

Been sent to ECU testing for investigation, arrived with them today.

Will post more when known, but feeling confident, my man is confident it is electronic, based on the resets we could do until recently, sticking vanes he feels would still be stuck if the engine was turned off and on again

With a bit of luck we could come in way under budget

 

[DavidG58]

Latest, ECU Testing have a 4-6 working day turn round, they should have received the bit on Tuesday so tomorrow will call to see what is happening

Looking like we might have to cancel another weekend away B + B next weekend, so everything crossed

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[funflair]

Come on @DavidG58 at this rate I am going to logging in from the Czech Republic just to make sure that you get sorted OK .

Martin

Ps have not got a clue what Czech RED is like, but might find out.

 

[DavidG58]

Come on @DavidG58 at this rate I am going to logging in from the Czech Republic just to make sure that you get sorted OK .

Martin

Ps have not got a clue what Czech RED is like, but might find out.

Got me? No idea what this reference is about it appears to be a breed of rabbit?

Enjoy your travels, we will be sorted before you get back

 

[Wyaye wires]

IVECO it will have to be then, any N+B Flairs for sale ?



You can't have mine!!!




But an excellent choice...

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[Wyaye wires]

At least with the Flair I've found that access to under the bonnet stuff is much easier and more spacious than any other A class that I've seen...

 

[Allan & Loren]

Hi David, sorry to here your troubles, you seem to have had a couple since falkirk, this and the skylight water!
I'm sure it'll be sorted and it's all part of the fun eh!

 

[Debs]

Latest, ECU Testing have a 4-6 working day turn round, they should have received the bit on Tuesday so tomorrow will call to see what is happening

Looking like we might have to cancel another weekend away B + B next weekend, so everything crossed

Any update yet David?

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[DavidG58]

Any update yet David?

Everything crossed for a fix by tomorrow, back to my guys Friday morning latest, then we still have a chance of getting to the B + B, bit of a risk going so far maybe, but gotta trust it sometime. I am actually not very confident about getting it done this week though, but I am always uhber cautious (very negative)

 

[Mousy]

Really hope you get it sorted David in time for wrenbury, looking forward to catching up.

 

[Debs]

Everything crossed for a fix by tomorrow, back to my guys Friday morning latest, then we still have a chance of getting to the B + B, bit of a risk going so far maybe, but gotta trust it sometime. I am actually not very confident about getting it done this week though, but I am always uhber cautious (very negative)

Everything crossed for you then (I thought of you when I passed Heanor Gate this afternoon)
.....it's not being negative, I call it being a realist (from a fellow sufferer)

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