Hymer Exsis-I Audio Upgrade Questions (1 Viewer)

[Abgs]

Right ho ….. Lockdown 3, The Project ….

I really need to upgrade the Audio in my Hymer Exsis. It’s so tinny it gives me a headache to listen to it. I’ve fitted car audio before so quite happy to get stuck in.

Headunit is a Zenec Z-E3726. Budget doesn't allow to change this - it's not brilliant but I reckon with an amp and better speakers it will sound pretty good. The sat-nav is pretty poor but I can use my phone screen as a sat-nav when needed. I rarely use sat-nav as rather like getting lost a bit from time to time. Music is mostly streamed from my iPhone via Spotify and Radio from the BBC sounds app when we are in mainland Europe.

Speakers are, two Visaton FX 13 4 OHM in the front cab area side panels along with Two Electro dynamical exciter Visaton EX 60 S units in base of the over-cab drop-down bed and two more Visaton EX 60 S in the head-board to the fixed bed in the rear of the van. The speakers are shockingly bad.

I am planning on adding an 4 channel amplifier by connecting to the RCA out sockets on the back of the headunit and then connect the amp speaker outputs to the four speakers - Front Right, Front Left, Rear Right and Rear Left. I’d then connect an active base speaker (or may two) the Subwoofer RCA output.

I figure this is do-able from the Zenec Head unit as I have all the connections needed. So I’m thinking ….

4 Channel Amplifier - Juice Car Audio JA1504 4 Channel 1500W

Active Bass Speaker - In Phase Car Audio USW10 300W Underseat Subwoofer

Front Speakers - Alpine Car Audio Systems SPR-50C 300W 13cm 2-way Component Speakers with Tweeters and Crossovers

Rear Speakers - Alpine Car Audio Systems SPG-10C2 180W 10cm 2-way Coaxial Speakers - These are the only ones that will fit in the back of the van without cutting the furniture.

But … I’ve hit a problem. My TV - an Alphtronic 22” is somehow also connected to the front cab speakers. If I have the Zenec on, turning on the TV will hi-jack the front cab speakers. I then get TV sound through the internal speakers on the TV and the front cab speakers. The Zenec will then continue to play but only on the speakers in the bedroom area. If the Zenec is off the TV will still play through the front speakers.

Strangely the only audio out connection from the TV is a jack plug into the headphone socket. My understanding is, if headphones are plugged in then the internal TV speakers would be shut off.

I assume must be some sort of control switching amplifier type unit wired into the front speaker cables somewhere after the Zenec, but before the speakers.

Does anyone know of such a unit?

I guess connecting an Amp to the RCA output of the headunit and then direct to the new speakers it would bypass this control unit. I don’t want to do that as I want the TV sound through the cab speakers as well.

Any ideas or pointers gratefully received before I start dismantling the dashboard area....

 

[Chipster]

I guess you have a dsp hidden somewhere in the van. We used to have a 2014 hymer tcl 614 (coach built) and it was in the offside footwell. A caratec unit.

 

[Speve]

We had the Caratec unit in our Hymer B678Dl and it is a digital signal processor for the Zenec and the alphatronic tv was connected to it. Our caratec was in behind the side panel passenger side. I took it out as the caratec did not work even after sending it back to makers who said nothing wrong with it(I beg to differ?) eventually the Zenec has deteriorated and the CD player keeps cutting out so I am going to fit a pioneer head unit when weather gets better.
The sound original system on our van is really good and speakers are ok it’s the radio and caratec that I’ve had problems with? Though others have them and had no problems

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[Lenny HB]

As Alan says the media unit is behind the panel passenger side (drivers side on a RHD).
The speakers Hymer fit aren't bad more likely to be the Zentec unit that is the problem.

 

[Abgs]

I guess you have a dsp hidden somewhere in the van. We used to have a 2014 hymer tcl 614 (coach built) and it was in the offside footwell. A caratec unit.

We had the Caratec unit in our Hymer B678Dl and it is a digital signal processor for the Zenec and the alphatronic tv was connected to it.

Thanks chaps ... that would make sense. I'll have a look for the DSP before I order any kit.

 

[Speve]

Thanks chaps ... that would make sense. I'll have a look for the DSP before I order any kit.

If you have the lift up lid locker by passenger window just lift out the bottom and it’s under there

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[Lenny HB]

If you have the lift up lid locker by passenger window just lift out the bottom and it’s under there

Your memory is fading the Exsis doesn't have the locker, just an open shelf with shock cord across it.

 

[Speve]

Your memory is fading the Exsis doesn't have the locker, just an open shelf with shock cord across it.

I think his is one of the newer Exsis I Lenny HB so thought they may have

 

[Lenny HB]

I think his is one of the newer Exsis I Lenny HB so thought they may have

Missed that, just had a look, yes it's the same as the DL so it will be behind the black panel.

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[Abgs]

I've been working on this for days now ....

Ran into problems with my original spec. which was -

4 Channel Amplifier - Juice Car Audio JA1504 4 Channel 1500W

Active Bass Speaker - In Phase Car Audio USW10 300W Underseat Subwoofer

Front Speakers - Alpine Car Audio Systems SPR-50C 300W 13cm 2-way Component Speakers with Tweeters and Crossovers

Rear Speakers - Alpine Car Audio Systems SPG-10C2 180W 10cm 2-way Coaxial Speakers -

I'd not figured the sheer amount of power the amplifiers would draw. This isn't a problem when driving but they'd quickly flatten the starter battery when parked up. The head-unit switches over to the Hab battery and whilst I could probably make the amplifiers do the same they'd kill the Hab battery pretty quickly.

So new plan ..

Downgrade the amplifier to this one:

Vibe Optisound Micro 4 Channel Amp​

Ditch the Active Bass speaker and and upgrade the main Cab speakers to these, which should handle the bass a little better.

DB Audio Systems T-Rex 5.2C 230W 13cm 2-way component speaker system​

The Vibe amplifier is wired inline with the head-unit as it doesn't draw a huge amount of power. It auto-senses sound input to turn it on, and off when none is detected.

What a pain to fit ..... the wiring from the Zenec head-unit is not plug and play with Vibe wiring harness whatever they say! In the end I bought a second harness cable for few quid off Amazon and made my own power lead connector.

Attaching the speaker inputs was not that straightforward either - the instructions say to wiring the amplifier input from the head-unit speaker output and the amplifier output to the speaker connections in the vehicle.

As the Hymer has a Caratec digital signal processor which links the TV to the front speakers I eventually figured the amplifier had to be fitted downstream of the Caratec.

i.e. Head-unit speaker connections connect to Caratec input, Caratec speaker output connections connect to amplifier input and amplifier output goes to speaker wiring harness.

Zenec Wiring Diagram ...

Amp connections:

Fitting the speakers was very longwinded. I had to brace the speaker cuts-outs with MDF rings and cover the rear of panels with sound deadener to kill any vibrations. While I was at it I also sound deadened under all the other dash panels.

Well ... it all works!

Zenec sounds much, much better, I reckon I'll hear it above the engine and road noise now. Bass is still a bit lacking but it's OK. The tweeters give a really good extra to the listening experience.

The TV takes the front speakers away from the Zenec if the TV is turned when the Zenec is already on. Zenec output still continues in the rear area. If the Zenec is off the TV turns the Amplifier on and off correctly.

Still putting it back together ...... I reckon another day's work. I'm determined it ain't gonna rattle no-more!

 

[Speve]

Well done you have obviously put a lot of research into your project looks like there are lot of cables to get into that little space at the back of the head unit.
I think I have solved my problem just awaiting delivery of an extra connection cable and hoping that’s a fix.
it’s a shame our Zenec is faulty as when it’s working it’s not bad however there is not much after sales support, and the Pioneer will meet our needs as we had one in our Exis that worked well.

 

[Abgs]

I put my back out so I've only just got round to piecing it all back together.

looks like there are lot of cables to get into that little space at the back of the head unit.

Amplifier fits stealthily under the base of the glove box.

The new speakers fit behind the original grills so the only giveaway are the tweeter pods mounted on the dash with velcro. Oh and the sound... it's so much better.

Bass is still lacking but I can't afford the current draw of another amplifier so thinking I may add a <Broken link removed> to the base of the over-cab bed using the existing speaker wiring that is in place. I assume I will need some sort of crossover to restrict the frequency range wiring in before the Visatons. As you can probably gather I'm learning as I go along .....

I even re-purposed an old iPhone holder and fitted it securely through one of the dash vents. It's angled exactly for facial and vocal recognition so I can use, hands free, Google Maps or Waze instead of the rubbish SatNav in the head unit.

I may have gone overboard with the sound deadening. It's under most of the dash and surrounding panels.

Only problem is I can't take it for test drive as I have no valid reason for using it on the road.

I probably wouldn't have undertaken this if it hadn't been lockdown as it was stupid amount of work to get it all in neatly.

But ... as we are only, at best guess, half-way through this current lockdown I'm going to start on sound deadening and sound proofing the rest of it as part two of this project.

I also need to do something with rear speakers. I've mounted a couple of pods in the rear corners just below the shelves above the windows. They were the only things that fitted so next job is to find the best speakers that will fit inside them.

I'm sure I'm dragging the job out and making it unnecessarily longwinded but if I can get it quieter inside it will much more pleasant to drive.

More importantly it's getting me out of the house!

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[Lenny HB]

I admire what you are doing, years ago I would have drooled over it. Ears aren't so good these days but I don't have a problem with the sound quality of the Hymer standard fit speakers sounds OK to me with my Clarion head unit.

Our first Hymer had a subwoofer with an amp under the bed it was a standard fit (special edition model) biggest problem was the only place you could use its potential was when wilding miles from anyone else.

 

[Abgs]

It just didn't sound right so I have given in and fitted a powered sub under the dinette seating. This is lightest, lowest power draw model I could find.

Lots of cabling to get it in neatly but worth the effort. It adds just enough depth the sound. It's wired to the leisure battery with an inline on/off switch for audio in power conserve mode.

 

[Roger20]

We have a Hymer Exsis T and upgrading the audio was one of the first the first big projects I did. High spec Pioneer HU with Alpine component speakers in the front and In Phase underseat subwoofer, all with dedicated HD wiring back to the twin leisure batteries.

The reason for posting is to suggest that one of the best improvements you can make is to remove the door cards and put in as as much sound deadening mat in the cavity as you can manage. This goes a log way toward the loss of bass in particular. When driving we are no longer fighting road noise as much by having to turn the volume up and it makes for much more pleasant listening experience.

I play FLAC (lossless) music files from a 256Gb USB stick and find that I can run them flat (ie without any DSP equalisation). I specced a Mk7.5 Golf a couple of years ago with an upgraded Dynaudio sound system and was hugely disappointed. I tried every combination of DSP setting and it was just impossible to get any sort of natural sound. Others agreed to there was a harshness which I just couldn't eliminate. So with lockdown I decided to bite the bullet and put massive amounts of sound insulation into the doors and the boot area. A huge amount of work, at least 3 days, but it has transformed the musicality of the system and it is exactly how I had hoped it would sound (still in a car though!). Most importantly all the DSP settings are now flat again.

One of the most impressive things was removing a tremendous amount of road noise (it's a GTi so running on low profile tyres is always going to be a challenge). On one stretch of familiar road with good new tarmac I was amazed that a 70mph it was virtually silent apart from a trace of wind noise around the door mirrors which now gives the music system a fighting chance.

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[Abgs]

The reason for posting is to suggest that one of the best improvements you can make is to remove the door cards and put in as as much sound deadening mat in the cavity as you can manage. This goes a log way toward the loss of bass in particular. When driving we are no longer fighting road noise as much by having to turn the volume up and it makes for much more pleasant listening experience.

I play FLAC (lossless) music files from a 256Gb USB stick and find that I can run them flat (ie without any DSP equalisation). I specced a Mk7.5 Golf a couple of years ago with an upgraded Dynaudio sound system and was hugely disappointed. I tried every combination of DSP setting and it was just impossible to get any sort of natural sound. Others agreed to there was a harshness which I just couldn't eliminate. So with lockdown I decided to bite the bullet and put massive amounts of sound insulation into the doors and the boot area. A huge amount of work, at least 3 days, but it has transformed the musicality of the system and it is exactly how I had hoped it would sound (still in a car though!). Most importantly all the DSP settings are now flat again.

One of the most impressive things was removing a tremendous amount of road noise (it's a GTi so running on low profile tyres is always going to be a challenge). On one stretch of familiar road with good new tarmac I was amazed that a 70mph it was virtually silent apart from a trace of wind noise around the door mirrors which now gives the music system a fighting chance.

My install started because I just couldn't hear the radio or music over the road noise - and the speaker quality was dreadful.

I have the Exsis-I so only one cab door and one habitation door. I haven't taken the door apart yet as there are no speakers in it but it's on my list to do just to eliminate and 'booming' panel noise.

I have already taken out most of the surrounding panels to the to the Ducato dash that you get with an A Class and fitted acoustic deadening under the plastic and long the main walls.

At the moment I've gone as far as I can - I really need to road test it so see what else might be needed. Its sounds great when parked on the drive though!

Next project is to tackle the car - I have a 9 year Merc E500 Cabrio with a factory fitted Harman Kardon system. I have 19" low profile tyres on my summer wheels - and 18" winter wheels. The audio is much nicer on the winter wheels so I think sound deadening is the way to go before I start spending money on better speakers and amps. On the other hand - sometimes I just listen to the V8 soundtrack!

 

[Lenny HB]

My install started because I just couldn't hear the radio or music over the road noise - and the speaker quality was dreadful.

I have the Exsis-I so only one cab door and one habitation door. I haven't taken the door apart yet as there are no speakers in it but it's on my list to do just to eliminate and 'booming' panel noise.

Surprised by your comments on the Exsis speakers.
We had a 2014 Exsis i678, hardly had to raise our voices or turn the radio up at 70 mph, impressed with the quietness of the van, current BDL was a little quieter more so since we fitted full air suspension.
Speakers were fine in the Exsis and the BDL (same speaker).
I know everyone has a different opinion on sound quality, I can't stand naff sound but as I get older I don't like too much bass.

 

[Roger20]

My install started because I just couldn't hear the radio or music over the road noise - and the speaker quality was dreadful.

I have the Exsis-I so only one cab door and one habitation door. I haven't taken the door apart yet as there are no speakers in it but it's on my list to do just to eliminate and 'booming' panel noise.

I have already taken out most of the surrounding panels to the to the Ducato dash that you get with an A Class and fitted acoustic deadening under the plastic and long the main walls.

At the moment I've gone as far as I can - I really need to road test it so see what else might be needed. Its sounds great when parked on the drive though!

Next project is to tackle the car - I have a 9 year Merc E500 Cabrio with a factory fitted Harman Kardon system. I have 19" low profile tyres on my summer wheels - and 18" winter wheels. The audio is much nicer on the winter wheels so I think sound deadening is the way to go before I start spending money on better speakers and amps. On the other hand - sometimes I just listen to the V8 soundtrack!

View attachment 470687

Sorry - I only realised later you have an A class. You sound as though you have put a lot of effort into sound deadening and that will go a big way toward improving clarity.

I don't know anything about speaker enclosures on the Exsis-I but with the big Ducato doors, one of the advantages of using extensive sound mat is that it tries to make a sealed enclosure which is more like a a normal speaker enclosure, avoiding the adverse resonances as the speaker cones move back and forth. Anything you can do to replicate some sort of speaker enclosure can only enhance the bass and mid range response.

When I was trying to improve the Golf I did do a bit of research into speaker enclosures which is clearly a dark art. The Dynaudio has a sub which is inside the spare wheel and it's a bit of a compromise. Someone suggested that filling the enclosure with a specific amount of packing might improve the bass response but I wasn't convinced at the time. However that was before I did the sound deadening and as the equalisation is now flat I might revisit this. That's the problem with seeking audio nirvana.

I think I would probably equally happy though if the Ducato had a V8 soundtrack .

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[Abgs]

Surprised by your comments on the Exsis speakers.
We had a 2014 Exsis i678, hardly had to raise our voices or turn the radio up at 70 mph, impressed with the quietness of the van, current BDL was a little quieter more so since we fitted full air suspension.
Speakers were fine in the Exsis and the BDL (same speaker).
I know everyone has a different opinion on sound quality, I can't stand naff sound but as I get older I don't like too much bass.

I'm wondering if the older Exsis models were better built. Mine, the facelift model, seems to have been built with view of shaving every last gram of weight out of it. I reckon I've put 15kg of sound deadening into it.

I've also added rubber floor panels to garage side walls and floor, partly for protection but also in an attempt to reduce road noise entering the cabin.

 

[Lenny HB]

I'm wondering if the older Exsis models were better built. Mine, the facelift model, seems to have been built with view of shaving every last gram of weight out of it. I reckon I've put 15kg of sound deadening into it.

I've also added rubber floor panels to garage side walls and floor, partly for protection but also in an attempt to reduce road noise entering the cabin.

View attachment 470708

I don't like the lightweight furniture construction in our current (2017) BDL the doors are thin ply with a polystyrene core, our Exsis had lightweight ply doors. The anti-slip mat in the garage was naff compared to the one in the Exsis, I fitted a Gel backed carpet on the floor and halfway down the back wall where bikes, ladder etc., rest against it.

 

[Speve]

I'm wondering if the older Exsis models were better built. Mine, the facelift model, seems to have been built with view of shaving every last gram of weight out of it. I reckon I've put 15kg of sound deadening into it

I would agree with Lenny HB comments on speakers also we had an Exsis I 698 and that as the B678DL are the quietest vans we’ve owned my only complaint is the rear speakers are better sound than the front?

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[Lenny HB]

my only complaint is the rear speakers are better sound than the front?

Especially outside the van, louder outside than in, stupid idea mounting them in the rear wall.
Just to be pedantic they are ceramic resinators.

 

[Speve]

Especially outside the van, louder outside than in, stupid idea mounting them in the rear wall.
Just to be pedantic they are ceramic resinators.

Thanks Lenny did not know that? I did wonder as there are no mesh covers.

 

[mkw1966]

Nice project! Looking to do something similar in our B Class. Did you access the exciters in the rear headboards? Seems quite challenging to remove the panelling.

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[Speve]

Nice project! Looking to do something similar in our B Class. Did you access the exciters in the rear headboards? Seems quite challenging to remove the panelling.

I took mine out just to see what was there , very easy to do prize off covering and then there are three screws to take out.
as Lenny HB says not a good idea mounting on back wall ours sound like a disco if your outside. I’ve put switches to turn them off when not required.

 

[Abgs]

I took mine out just to see what was there , very easy to do prize off covering and then there are three screws to take out.
as Lenny HB says not a good idea mounting on back wall ours sound like a disco if your outside. I’ve put switches to turn them off when not required.

I couldn't figure out how to get the covering off without damaging it. I looked at dismantling the shelf / cupboard unit but that seemed way to involved.

I went with a couple of speaker pods mounted up in the corners with a pair of Alpine Car Audio Systems SPG-10C2 plus sound dampening material inside the pods.

This, of-course, required two new cable runs from the head-unit to the rear of the van ..... worth doing anyway as the Hymer speaker wiring is a low gauge wire which doesn't help with sound quality.

 

[Speve]

You just need a set of plastic panel tools and lever it out it only pops on with plastic spigots
Amazon product ASIN B07R1XSYDZ

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[mkw1966]

Thank you all for your expert insight!

 

[Ian Bosman]

Right ho ….. Lockdown 3, The Project ….

I really need to upgrade the Audio in my Hymer Exsis. It’s so tinny it gives me a headache to listen to it. I’ve fitted car audio before so quite happy to get stuck in.

Headunit is a Zenec Z-E3726. Budget doesn't allow to change this - it's not brilliant but I reckon with an amp and better speakers it will sound pretty good. The sat-nav is pretty poor but I can use my phone screen as a sat-nav when needed. I rarely use sat-nav as rather like getting lost a bit from time to time. Music is mostly streamed from my iPhone via Spotify and Radio from the BBC sounds app when we are in mainland Europe.

Speakers are, two Visaton FX 13 4 OHM in the front cab area side panels along with Two Electro dynamical exciter Visaton EX 60 S units in base of the over-cab drop-down bed and two more Visaton EX 60 S in the head-board to the fixed bed in the rear of the van. The speakers are shockingly bad.

I am planning on adding an 4 channel amplifier by connecting to the RCA out sockets on the back of the headunit and then connect the amp speaker outputs to the four speakers - Front Right, Front Left, Rear Right and Rear Left. I’d then connect an active base speaker (or may two) the Subwoofer RCA output.

I figure this is do-able from the Zenec Head unit as I have all the connections needed. So I’m thinking ….

4 Channel Amplifier - Juice Car Audio JA1504 4 Channel 1500W
Active Bass Speaker - In Phase Car Audio USW10 300W Underseat Subwoofer

Front Speakers - Alpine Car Audio Systems SPR-50C 300W 13cm 2-way Component Speakers with Tweeters and Crossovers

Rear Speakers - Alpine Car Audio Systems SPG-10C2 180W 10cm 2-way Coaxial Speakers - These are the only ones that will fit in the back of the van without cutting the furniture.

But … I’ve hit a problem. My TV - an Alphtronic 22” is somehow also connected to the front cab speakers. If I have the Zenec on, turning on the TV will hi-jack the front cab speakers. I then get TV sound through the internal speakers on the TV and the front cab speakers. The Zenec will then continue to play but only on the speakers in the bedroom area. If the Zenec is off the TV will still play through the front speakers.

Strangely the only audio out connection from the TV is a jack plug into the headphone socket. My understanding is, if headphones are plugged in then the internal TV speakers would be shut off.

I assume must be some sort of control switching amplifier type unit wired into the front speaker cables somewhere after the Zenec, but before the speakers.

Does anyone know of such a unit?

I guess connecting an Amp to the RCA output of the headunit and then direct to the new speakers it would bypass this control unit. I don’t want to do that as I want the TV sound through the cab speakers as well.

Any ideas or pointers gratefully received before I start dismantling the dashboard area....

What size are the speakers and where are they sited. The tinniness can be down to poor speakers so I would always et the best quality you can afford, then look at the best amplifier you can afford working backwards