HPI Checks - I wasted my money & a warning to others! | MotorhomeFun | The Motorhome Support and Social Network

HPI Checks - I wasted my money & a warning to others!

Mar 12, 2012
891
948
Bridgend, South Wales
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20,125
MH
Coachbuilt
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Just started!
Regrettably we're selling our motorhome due to business commitments. I listed the motorhome on Ebay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Burstner-Argos-2-748-Motorhome-Tag-Axle-October-2005-/121435604296?

You can read my horror story at the bottom of the ad under the heading - IMPORTANT INFORMATION.

John



Advert information added to this post before it disappears from eBay
IMPORTANT UPDATE.

Yesterday 15th Septemeber I received a call from Fuller Leisure Limited in Nottingham. They offered me £22,000 for the motorhome which I accepted and collection was arranged for Wednesday morning 17th Septemeber.

This morning, 16th September I received a call from Fuller Leisure informing me that my motorhome is registered as a category 'D' write-off. As you can imagine, I was totally shocked to hear this as, at the date of purchase I'd carried out a full HPI check and all was clear. I just looked at the original Ebay listing and the then owner included the information 'HPI clear, no finance outstanding'. He was evidently being ecconomical with the truth. Follows is the chronological purchase proces I followed in 2012.

26th February 2012 Travelled to Scunthorpe to view the motorhome advertised on Ebay. After the viewing and discussions agreed to purchase.

27th February 2012 Carried out an HPI check which was all clear so transferred the purchase monies to the seller.

1st March 2012 Travelled to Scunthorpe to collect the motorhome, all documents and returned home to Wales.

16th September 2014 Informed by Fuller Leisure the motorhome is recorded as 'Category 'D' Write-Off. The entry date was 8th March 2012 and the loss date recorded as 16th January 2012. This is the reason the HPI check I carried out was clear.

For further information on Category 'D'Write-Offs, take a look here:

http://www.rac.co.uk/community/blog/rac-blog/july-2013/what-is-a-category-d-car-insurance-write-off

As you can imagine, I'm devastated by this news and being an ex police officer, still working for the police, feel very angry that I've been duped and cheated!

Fuller Leisure inform me that as a trader they would have to disclose the fact that the motorhome was a category 'D' write off but a private seller need not. I can't do that as I wouldn't want honest buyers to fall for what's happened to me, hence this update.

I'm advised by Fuller Leisure that I should still expect to get £19,000 for the motorhome having disclosed the information. Accordingly I'm going to reduce the cost if Ebay will allow that.

To everyone who's viewed my advert, those that have visited and made offers, some pending the sale of caravans or smaller motorhomes, I can't apologise enough, I really am so sorry to have caused you inconvenience.

On a lighter, more positive note, my loss is perhaps your gain. The motorhome has obviously been repaired in accordance with the strict guidlines required when making a category 'D' write-off road worthy. Also, if you have researched category 'D' write-offs and what it means, you will have discovered that these 'write-offs' are often the result of very slight damage.
 
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DuxDeluxe

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Jul 10, 2008
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A very devious previous owner? Not a pleasant story at all. Best of luck with selling - it is still a cracking good van
 
Jul 23, 2013
362
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knaus van ti 600mg
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Getting There since 2013
Thanks for letting us know.

I read your update and how could they register it on the 8th when you bought it on the 1st? Is it a fraudulent act?

Best of luck with your sale :)

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Jan 28, 2008
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renault burstner delphin
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i would be questioning hpi as part of the fee you pay for their services is to have access to their insurance
 

Chris

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May 5, 2010
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Bloody hell!

Well done for being so up front about your discovery.

Good luck with the sale.

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Feb 7, 2012
1,226
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It's perfect
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Well thanks for that info and your honesty.....................sad for you but as you say could be a real bargain for someone.

We drove a Cat D car for some years...........................an accident stove in the drivers door and was not economical for the insurance company to repair. I had to stay insured with them for ease but replaced the door from a scrappy and pocketed the difference
 

Hollyberry

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Apr 24, 2011
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What a b*******. I 'd question the legality of their registering the damage after they'd sold the vehicle.
The HPI insurance is a good idea if you're up to pursuing it.

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OP
StitchUp
Mar 12, 2012
891
948
Bridgend, South Wales
Funster No
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MH
Coachbuilt
Exp
Just started!
Thanks for the replies.

It is a beautiful van and for the little use we had in it, always with 'the Funsters', we really loved it but, the business needs an injection of cash to do up the shop we purchased so sadly it has to go.

When I received the information from Fuller Leisure who by the way have been more than helpful, I started researching Cat 'D' write-offs http://www.rac.co.uk/community/blog/rac-blog/july-2013/what-is-a-category-d-car-insurance-write-off and the DVLA on how insurance companies should notify asap. I do question the delay to the 8th March 2012 before informing the relevant agencies when the loss date was 16th January 2012!

I have written to DVLA and HPI and await their replies.

Apparently a dealer has to disclose the fact that a vehicle has been a cat D write-off but private sellers don't have too - I just had to tell the story as I wouldn't sleep at night.

No indication at all on the V5C(W) registration document. I also discovered the vehicle had been re-registered from a personalised plate to it's present number on 3rd June 2011.

In short, the seller was/is a scumbag and I already have a judgement against him for not including parts that should have been. I'll investigate ALL ways of pursuing him.

I still believe someone will get a cracking deal especially now I've discounted the price having taken advise from Fuller Leisure.

As always, thanks for the support and understanding - I feel gutted just now :(

In short, do remember, HPI checks can be worthless - certainly was in my case as it gave me the confidence and reassurance I needed to make the purchase.

John
 

Jaws

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Sep 26, 2008
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A CAT D is 'cosmetic only'
It could well have been as simple as someone stole the wheels ( for instance, or a can of paint went pop and the whole van had to be re-upholstered..
With a MH those scenarios are unlikely to cause a write off but it will give you some idea..
One of my Smart cars was a cat d.. The wheels and seats had been stolen.. A Mini Cooper I had was a cat d.. A lorry loaded with tar chippings dropped a shed load and covered the front of the can.. Absolutely no REAL damage at all..

I am not belittling your awful situation in any way and really feel for you.. what I am saying is that it might be worth trying to find out exactly WHY it is a cat d.. If it was something of no consequence at least you can sell with a little more confidence and a clear mind (y)
 
OP
StitchUp
Mar 12, 2012
891
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Bridgend, South Wales
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Coachbuilt
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Just started!
I'm ringing my insurers Aviva now - they do underwrite a lot of motorhome policies and might be able to give me some assistance. Then an email to the Association of British Insurers for advice.

Problem is, it's all so time consuming and I've already accepted I have to discount the asking price by £3,000 from what Fuller Leisure offered.

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tambo

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Jun 21, 2014
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Admirable honesty ....

Such a great looking van too and well kitted out ....to be honest it was cheap at 22k

I sold mine a 2003 52 plate 747 (pic below ) for 32000 in march 2011....and it didn't have the extras yours has


I'd have snapped this up myself as I'd like another burstner but i doubt I'd sell mine in time ......i don't imagine you'll have it long at that price.
 
Mar 26, 2009
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Oh John & Ang what an awful thing to happen. Good luck in pursuing the previous owner and I hope it sells quickly so you can move forward with your new venture. When you have the time, buy another van and be sure to join us again(y)

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Chris

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May 5, 2010
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John - once you have sold it( so you know your loss) think about suing the guy who sold it to you.

He might not be worth suing but a claim of fraudulent or negligent misrepresentation can undermine any argument a private seller has to the standard defence of " Let The Buyer Beware".

Don't rule it out anyway
 
Feb 10, 2013
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John, we've never met. I just wanted to say that for people re-directed to mororhome fun via eBay.

Rarely have I seen such honesty and a creditable footnote to a sale. It does you proud as a person and a police officer.

The 'van is great and an absolute 'steal' for anyone interested. Solar panels, inverter and tons of extras that in themselves cost a fortune.

Good luck with the sale and the business venture. Feel for you
Regards
James

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Johns_Cross_Motorhomes

Trader - Motorhome & Accessory Sales
Jan 5, 2008
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If you did the full monte HPI check you should be covered if the information was incorrect.

You can have the van inspected and if the repair was back to original spec, the Cat D can be removed but it takes time

Good luck and an excellent listing!

Peter
 

Silver-Fox

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Sep 5, 2014
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All credit to you for being so honest, makes a change these days as you found out to your cost.

I would have no problem buying a cat D as said it would have been viewed as un economical to repair by the assessor for the insurance company.

It would not have been major work to repair other wise it would have been a higher cat listing.

Its a shame your MH isnt what im looking for as i would of been happy to buy it.

Good luck with the sale and as said before chase down the HPI people
 
OP
StitchUp
Mar 12, 2012
891
948
Bridgend, South Wales
Funster No
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Coachbuilt
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Just started!
Thanks again everyone for your kind and thoughtful words, it really is appreciated..

Just to be clear I'm not intending to 'knock' HPI specifically, it might be the insurance company that neglected to update the the relevant database, the Motor Insurance Anti Fraud and Theft Register in a timely fashion and in accordance with the code of practice.

When I carried out my HPI check, 27th February 2012 it was clear as the insurance company concerned had not recorded the information.

My current insurer AVIVA were very helpful today, they spent quite some time looking into the matter and advised it was Chaucer Insurance that created the record of a cat 'D' write off on 7th March - this was a week after I'd taken ownership. I guess what it does illustrate is that one shouldn't rely on HPI checks as the de-facto!

I rang Chaucer Insurance and they had no record of the vehicle - very strange! I'm now waiting on the DVLA to tell me what they've found.

At the reduced price I know the motorhome will sell, the saga has just caused me a loss of £3,000.

I'm sure the seller, Robert Bialoblocki of Scunthorpe was fully aware of the situation and simply chose to withhold the information. I noticed this evening that Ebay seller 'adies-loot' is still selling vehicles!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2009-FORD-C-MAX-ZETEC-MPV-FULL-MOT-39-000-MILES-SLIGHT-REAR-DAMAGE-CAT-D-/301312952855?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item4627a6ca17

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-FORD-FOCUS-C-MAX-STYLE-TDCI-BLUE-FULL-MOT-/301312953030?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item4627a6cac6

Buyer beware!

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Kool Kroozer

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Apr 19, 2014
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appalling mate, my thoughts are with you, if it were me i would be totally devastated - lets hope you can get most of your cash back - you deserve it for at least being honest, its a shame everyone's not the same as you :)
 
Apr 19, 2008
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So many people rely on HPI checks, MOT certificate checks and various safety nets to ensure they have not been conned with a cloned vehicle, a cut and shut or a complete write off that has been rebuilt. One of the checks we did in the past before HPI existed was to ask the person who they were insured with and then phone the insurance company asking if they were aware of any damage to the vehicle during the time it was insured with them - they could give the information legally as the information was not about a person but about an item.

Really feel for you having read what you have put on line and I hope there is some way legally for you to get some recourse and compensation.

The previous owner should have advised you before purchase that the vehicle had been in an accident/incident where damage was caused.

Where I think the system is let down is that HPI get their information from the insurance companies and/or underwriters who pay out the claims. It can take a few weeks depending on the company and vehicle type for a full assessment to be done and either a short or long time for all the repairs to be carried out where repairs are deemed viable/cost effective. Until the decision is made as to the category effectively the vehicle has not been deemed a "write off"

So with the information you have given it appears that the decision to class the vehicle as a category D write off was not given to until March with the entry being made on 8 March but if I read it correctly the actual date of damage causing the write off was 16 January.

I think insurance companies should have a duty to immediately inform HPI of any possible write off decision - "this could be listed as accident/incident damage - decision pending"

This would make a good story for BBC Watchdog - they would have the influence perhaps to get the above change made which could better protect us all.

There must be a way to find out the exact damage. Contact your local police see if there was an accident/incident report - you are asking for damage information I cannot see how that information could be refused under data protection. Also contact MIB Motor Insurance Bureau they may be able to help you on the exact damage and repair too.

Hope this has been helpful. Sending you big hugs.

BY the way - why reduce the price? Its well worth the original price. The repairs will have been carried out by reputable companies that Insurance Companies use and should be to the highest standard.

Remember there are insurance companies out there that will insure on a guaranteed price payout and they check the vehicle take photos and give what is called an "assured value" I think that is the correct term. Its the value to get an exact replacement vehicle should something really untoward happen that people want to ensure they get back.
 

Debs

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Jun 9, 2014
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Hi - this is a horrible thing to have to go through.......but is it definite that the mh is a cat d? And not some awful admin error?? Strange that chaucer can't find a record?

I'm only asking because one of the links for his other ebay items is listed as being a cat d - which makes me wonder why he didn't declare the mh?

Or did he buy the mh and then just pass it on and didn't do a hpi himself?

Either way not nice for you:(

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Feb 24, 2013
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It will be interesting to know what the write was for, it is hard to believe something cosmetic could write off a £20K MH, not sure how you will find out now though

as for Cat D it does not need to be checked when repaired so could quite easily have been done in someones back garden with second hand bits

one thing for sure the owner at the time was involved in both the write off incident and having the repairs done

my repeated best wishes for a best resolution for you
 

Chris

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Thanks again everyone for your kind and thoughtful words, it really is appreciated..

Just to be clear I'm not intending to 'knock' HPI specifically, it might be the insurance company that neglected to update the the relevant database, the Motor Insurance Anti Fraud and Theft Register in a timely fashion and in accordance with the code of practice.

When I carried out my HPI check, 27th February 2012 it was clear as the insurance company concerned had not recorded the information.

My current insurer AVIVA were very helpful today, they spent quite some time looking into the matter and advised it was Chaucer Insurance that created the record of a cat 'D' write off on 7th March - this was a week after I'd taken ownership. I guess what it does illustrate is that one shouldn't rely on HPI checks as the de-facto!

I rang Chaucer Insurance and they had no record of the vehicle - very strange! I'm now waiting on the DVLA to tell me what they've found.

At the reduced price I know the motorhome will sell, the saga has just caused me a loss of £3,000.

I'm sure the seller, Robert Bialoblocki of Scunthorpe was fully aware of the situation and simply chose to withhold the information. I noticed this evening that Ebay seller 'adies-loot' is still selling vehicles!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2009-FORD-C-MAX-ZETEC-MPV-FULL-MOT-39-000-MILES-SLIGHT-REAR-DAMAGE-CAT-D-/301312952855?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item4627a6ca17

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-FORD-FOCUS-C-MAX-STYLE-TDCI-BLUE-FULL-MOT-/301312953030?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item4627a6cac6

Buyer beware!
You might be able to argue that he is a trader if he sells lots of vehicles.

He can't then hide behind " Buyer Beware"
 
OP
StitchUp
Mar 12, 2012
891
948
Bridgend, South Wales
Funster No
20,125
MH
Coachbuilt
Exp
Just started!
Thanks again all.

I do have judgement against Mr Bialoblocki which he didn't pay a pany - I've just completed the court forms to send the bailiffs in.

Of course I have so many avenues to explore, letters and emails to put together and at the same time remain positive when viewers turn up, email or ring me :)

Cheers

John

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Feb 24, 2013
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not long enough
What about using the sheriffs we see on TV, they seem to short cut a lot of time when you already have a judgement (y)
 
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