How to Make "A" Frames better (1 Viewer)

[Road Runner]

Well i use mine and very pleased with it.

Without it I would have to give up motorhoming as i couldn't struggle with a trailer and cannot be without a car.

This is a discussion with no end at present.

 

[Tony Hunt]

I second that. Theres no way that I shall stop using my A frame until its proven in a court of law that it definately is illegal to do so. A frames are a proven and safe method of towing a car behind a M/H. Order books are full to bursting at the manufacturers and will continue to be because they work so well for the job they were designed for. I didnt bother to read all the posts in this thread because I quickly got the gist of the way it was going to pan out, just like it always has in the past with one person being right and everybody else including the manufacturers of the things being wrong.

 

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Tony

Not just me, Construction and Use Marsham, National trailer and Towing association and just reading the regulations all say they are ilegal.

They may well be the best method of towing a car, but they are clearly not road legal.

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[American Dream]

I personally see no reason why A frames should be made, or be, illegal.

They are the logical choice of many an RV'er and motorhomer alike as well as recovery outfits.

As long as the vehicle towing it is up to the job brake wise and within it's towing capacity, and the A frame design strength is rated for the TOAD.

Far too many laws and regs in this country anyway.oh:

 

[Thepips]

Hi Tony

Not just me, Construction and Use Marsham, National trailer and Towing association and just reading the regulations all say they are ilegal.

They may well be the best method of towing a car, but they are clearly not road legal.

Fortunately, George your considered opinion matters not a jot and unless you are a judge it is only an opinion. Even silks only offer an opinion until a judge rules on it.
In the meantime my insurance company cover my car while it's being towed, my motorhome insurers don't have any objection. The policeman who stopped me for a faulty indicator on the Toad wasn't bothered either. There's never been a conviction for using an A-Frame.
On this basis I'll continue towing until it's proven illegal in a court of law.

Happy travels
Doug

 

[American Dream]

Fortunately, George your considered opinion matters not a jot and unless you are a judge it is only an opinion. Even silks only offer an opinion until a judge rules on it.
In the meantime my insurance company cover my car while it's being towed, my motorhome insurers don't have any objection. The policeman who stopped me for a faulty indicator on the Toad wasn't bothered either. There's never been a conviction for using an A-Frame.
On this basis I'll continue towing until it's proven illegal in a court of law.

Happy travels
Doug

Well said.Link Removed

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[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Pips, America dream

yes if something is open to different interpretations, but must have overrun brakes to prescribed braking force is very clear....

Must be capable of reverse under driver control is very clear (driver would have no way of controlling the drivers mate in a following car)

Brakes are covered by testing depts on mass produced cars, there is no way to test all the different Toad combinations...

Brake buddies which would solve 75% of problems are ilegal for a whole host of different reasons

A Framing is probably the best (easiest/most practical) method of towing a car, but I can see no way of making it legal, if it could only be moved into a grey area it would be something, if it only failed due to one ilegality, a workable solution may have been found, but its ilegal in at least 8 clear ways and I cannot see them changing EU directives just for a few motorhomers..

Its not a matter of being made ilegal, they already are. Ask the National Towing and Trailer Association (how many times were the NTTA thrown in my face as the experts when the NTTA said it was legal, nobody mentions them since I set them straight and they changed their website)

I have asked before for a volunteer to meet with a traffic policeman who as been briefed as to why its ilegal, strangely no-one ever volunteers, even amongst those who keep insisting that its legal....

 

[American Dream]

Morning George.

If they are "illegal" why are so many people using them and so many manufacturers producing them.

It's not like they can be hidden like the "illigal" cb radios of yesteryear.

I have not heard of anyone being prosecuted?

 

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Steve

we have touched on the lack of prosecution's before, but briefly there are many laws that are not enforced (this doesnt mean that they never will be enforced)

Police apathy, lack of knowledge...

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[American Dream]

Going on some of these facts,Why then aren't caravans illegal.

As far as I know there is no compulsory Brake test/mot for them to test braking efficiency.

They are but an "A" frame after all.

There must be lots of vans out there with faulty braking systems, going unchecked or with structurally weakened chassis, or being towed by unsuitable vehicles.

Ho Hum

Just thought.

This thread was started by ENODREVEN (Neverdone)

Is this why this thread keeps going in ever widening circles.

oh:

 

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Steve

Caravans are totally legal in principle (but as you say they can become ilegal through lack of maintenance)

a Caravan doesnt self steer randomly when reversed. It is equipped with a fully functioning auto reverse system, the brakes are TUV (or equivilent tested) and have been tested to provide the prescribed braking force.

I can see no ever widening circle, no-one as yet suggested a viable way to make them legal or even a grey area that could be exploited....

 

[Jim]

This thread is now way off topic. It was started as a discussion about how to make A frames better. It has now slipped back to the old Legal or not question. Please bring it back on topic.

You can of course start another thread about the legality of A frames, please ensure the title of the new thread reflects the topic, so that others like me that are totally bored by the same old arguments can avoid it. Thank you

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[American Dream]

This thread is now way off topic. It was started as a discussion about how to make A frames better. It has now slipped back to the old Legal or not question. Please bring it back on topic.

You can of course start another thread about the legality of A frames, please ensure the title of the new thread reflects the topic, so that others like me that are totally bored by the same old arguments can avoid it. Thank you

Sorry Jim.

My discussion on this subject is now closed.

"so that others like me that are totally bored by the same old arguments can avoid it."

With Deepest respect everyone knows the content and has a personal choice whether to follow the thread or abandon it as "done to death" and marking the thread closed.

Going back to the FUN Side.

:thumb:

 

[GeorgeTelford]

Hi Jim

This thread was started by Brian on the basis that A Frames are already ilegal, but lets find ways to make them better (ie a euphamism for legal...)

here is a quote from very first post

"put all of the expertises that exist on this site into finding a method for making them legal."

Obviously as each new post/idea comes along the legal issue is bound to crop up...

George

 

[Jim]

I agree the first post said

"put all of the expertises that exist on this site into finding a method for making them legal."

Like I said, its now off topic. Bring it back on topic or I will lock it.

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[American Dream]

I agree the first post said

"put all of the expertises that exist on this site into finding a method for making them legal."

Like I said, its now off topic. Bring it back on topic or I will lock it.

Better off locked IMHO.It seems all avenues of discussion have been exhausted.

 

[Road Runner]

George Telford

Done to death springs to mind so I wont use it

George

I think everyone who owns and uses an A frame has now seen your posts and considered your views on the matter fully.

Can you let us now just get on with lives and let us take our chances using our frames PLEASE!

Nearly every board related to motorhoming has a thread with your views on it so we ALL now know them and how you see it many thanxs

Can you just let us PLEASE have some FUN?

 

[Jim]

...sighs... Locks..

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