How can I improve the quality of life for my leisure battery (1 Viewer)

[kitetraveller]

Currently have a Halfords battery charger running via mains hook up to keep the 85ah leisure battery charged on site (or at home). This is in our 2007 Citroen Relay PVC.

Also fitted is a Durite split charger, to help charge the leisure battery whilst on the move.

We are going to change to a 'big boy' (225ah) sealed lead acid leisure battery, and I am after advice regarding how best to look after this, both on hook up, and whilst travelling?

Any help/guidance gratefully received!

Kind regards
Abdy

 

[andy63]

Most probably the best advice on keeping lead acid batteries at their best for as long as possible is to discharge them as shallowly as possible and recharge them as soon as possible after discharge
But that said we end up using them to suit our particular need and that differs... some use inverters which discharge at a very high rate and possibly much deeper... so it follows that the battery may not have the life expectancy of one used for much lighter loads...
In either case it's important to fully charge them asap...
Couple of the main battery manufacturer's seem to be changing their stance on whether it harms a battery to keep it on a permanent trickle charge... with solar and the multi stage mains chargers it's been widely accepted as been OK but I've read in a couple articles now that that view is changing...
Ramble over lol..
Andy.

 

[kitetraveller]

Thanks Andy.
No inverters, just fridge (Waeco) some LED lighting, and 12 v to 5 v for charging igadgets.

I guess I need to understand the B2B stuff some more, and 3 or 5 stage chargers......

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[andy63]

just fridge (Waeco)

Is that a compressor fridge...? As opposed to a 3 way.... If so they can be quite a draw on the 12v system and a good charging system of solar and a proper battery to battery (as opposed to just a split charge relay ) charger would be worth while to keep your battery charged...
As you say a good multi stage mains charger built into the system for when you are on hookup. .
Andy.

 

[kitetraveller]

Yep, compressor fridge, only runs from 12v.

Sounds like I need B2B charger for when on the move; multi stage charger for when on hook up, and solar for top up when not on hook up.

Sterling for B2B?

Multi stage; Victron?

Solar; Bimble solar and not pwm?

Any recommendations for model numbers or alternative manufacturers please?

 

[iLondoner]

Leisure batteries are different beasts to car starter batteries. Have a read of http://www.campingandcaravanningclu...icalhelp/datasheets/charging-leisure-battery/

I have an intelligent Ctek charger that handles AGM batteries. MSX5.0, MSX7.0 or MSX10.0 are recommended for leisure batteries. When you are hooked up to electric, turn off the motorhome's in-built charger and charge the leisure battery from the Ctek plugged into a 240v socket.

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[Geo]

improve the "Quality" of life of a battery??
Try draining out the acid and replace with Campagne it will feel wonderful

 

[eddie]

Most motorhomes would benefit dramatically just by scrapping the converters split charger set up, install a really decent quality relay 100amp'ish connected up with a minimum 25mm2 multi strand cable (properly fused each end)

Most "Off the shelf" systems that look very smart are designed for ease of installation by the converters, rather that efficiency for the end user I.E. You!

This results in long cable runs with the inherent problems of voltage drop, fairly cheap/basic internal components and siting based on aesthetics over functionality

 

[andy63]

Most motorhomes would benefit dramatically just by scrapping the converters split charger set up, install a really decent quality relay 100amp'ish connected up with a minimum 25mm2 multi strand cable (properly fused each end)

Something like this Eddie. ..
https://www.mobilecentre.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=231&products_id=245

I fitted one in the self build and it's worked fine for years.
I refer to it as a poor man's battery to battery charger ..

Trouble is with the purpose built motor homes that come supplied you tend to just accept whats there and on the chausson the relay installed looks tiny and flimsy compared to the blue sea relay and suspect could fail if constantly handling current at the higher end of its rating which I think is only around 40/50 amps..
I know of a few 30a durite spit charge relays people fitted failing after a short while... ie under a year...
Andy

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[eddie]

Something like this Eddie. ..
https://www.mobilecentre.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=231&products_id=245

I fitted one in the self build and it's worked fine for years.
I refer to it as a poor man's battery to battery charger ..

Trouble is with the purpose built motor homes that come supplied you tend to just accept whats there and on the chausson the relay installed looks tiny and flimsy compared to the blue sea relay and suspect could fail if constantly handling current at the higher end of its rating which I think is only around 40/50 amps..
I know of a few 30a durite spit charge relays people fitted failing after a short while... ie under a year...
Andy

Perfect!

 

[hilldweller]

I guess I need to understand the B2B stuff some more, and 3 or 5 stage chargers......

Someone was selling a b2b on here a couple of weeks ago, don't know if it sold.

 

[movan]

I wish I understood ....... well, err ... stuff.

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[andy63]

I wish I understood ....... well, err ... stuff.

I thought you were learning joy. ..
Like you know not to go stroking horses next to an electric fence.
I had a little "tit....ter " when I read that....
sorry..
Andy

 

[kitetraveller]

Sorry for the questions, not getting the understanding I need.....
Fit this as a b2b charger, instead of the Sterling BB1250 (or similar)?

Still then need a mains powered charger; any recommendations please (prefer cheaper than CTEK MXS 25)

Ta
Andy

Something like this Eddie. ..
https://www.mobilecentre.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=231&products_id=245

I fitted one in the self build and it's worked fine for years.
I refer to it as a poor man's battery to battery charger ..

Trouble is with the purpose built motor homes that come supplied you tend to just accept whats there and on the chausson the relay installed looks tiny and flimsy compared to the blue sea relay and suspect could fail if constantly handling current at the higher end of its rating which I think is only around 40/50 amps..
I know of a few 30a durite spit charge relays people fitted failing after a short while... ie under a year...
Andy

 

[andy63]

Sorry for the questions, not getting the understanding I need.....
Fit this as a b2b charger, instead of the Sterling BB1250 (or similar)?

Still then need a mains powered charger; any recommendations please (prefer cheaper than CTEK MXS 25)

Ta
Andy

don't worry about asking questions , folk are happy to help if they can..
the blue sea voltage sensing relay referred to above and linked to in the thread can be fitted to connect your start and leisure batteries together... so that the vehicle alternator can also charge the leisure battery when you are on the road...
because it is dual sensing it will also charge the start battery when you are on hook up with a mains charger charging the leisure battery,,,
as Eddie said its quite effective, but most probably not as fast or efficient as a proper battery to battery charger like the one sold by Stirling.. thats reflected in the price , so its a choice you have to make...
hope that helps, but if its not clear ask again..
someone will explain it better I'm sure..
a good multi stage mains charger with about 20amp capacity is the sort of charger you should be looking at and they will cost a bit more.. the one I fitted was a Stirling pro charge 20
andy

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[kitetraveller]

Thanks.
So the Blue sea is a more robust version of the Durite that I already have?

I get that the Sterling B2B is more expensive, but it does feel like more peace of mind; does that make sense?

Ctek seem very expensive for mains chargers, but is that just about brand, or is there actually a marked difference in performance etc?

 

[kitetraveller]

I get the 10% of capacity charger bit, but the Ctek mxs 10 is half the price of the mxs 25; does it need to be closer to 10%?

 

[two]

Most motorhomes would benefit dramatically just by scrapping the converters split charger set up, install a really decent quality relay 100amp'ish connected up with a minimum 25mm2 multi strand cable (properly fused each end)

Most "Off the shelf" systems that look very smart are designed for ease of installation by the converters, rather that efficiency for the end user I.E. You!

This results in long cable runs with the inherent problems of voltage drop, fairly cheap/basic internal components and siting based on aesthetics over functionality

I agree with all of that, except that I don't understand the need for more than one fuse?

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[two]

So long as an inverter is kept out of the equation, current draw should not be a problem. The thing to watch is the Ah drawn over time. I’d invest in a battery monitor (Amp-hour counter). There are several choices available but one of those will help to ensure that you don’t drop below 50% charged. If you are topping up regularly, you may not need all that (225Ah) capacity but a battery monitor will help you understand how much you actually use. In fact, I’d start with the monitor, first.

 

[magicsurfbus]

I'm no electronimical wizard, but gut feeling says make sure your charging system is at least two stage, make sure the maker's blurb says it's specifically compatible with sealed lead acid batteries, and then get a solar panel with a two stage regulator to keep it topped up when standing still and/or off mains.

We don't use an inverter at all - I'm sure that helps.

Also bear in mind that your new mother of all batteries will be bigger and heavier than the present one - do you have the space to fit it, and can you afford the reduction in payload? Also worth checking if it's on the NCC ratings list, and if so, what Grade. Grade C won't be a huge amount of use if you're going off the mains a lot, which is why I swapped our factory-fit C for a larger capacity B recently.

 

[andy63]

So the Blue sea is a more robust version of the Durite that I already have?

The blue sea linked to is 120A... I don't know the current rating if your durite, but I've seen 30 amp ones fitted that are just not up to the job..
The blue sea is dual sensing.... it will link and charge either battery as long as there is a charging source on one bank...
The durite split charge relays will just charge the leisure from the alternator as far as I know....

I get that the Sterling B2B is more expensive, but it does feel like more peace of mind; does that make sense?

I've not got any experience of the battery to battery chargers but read plenty of good reports.... I believe it will charge the batteries more effeciently than the large relay mentioned with a similar regime to a mains smart charger... ie multi stage charging...
Can't be more helpful on that I'm afraid...
Andy.

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[two]

I can recommend B2B chargers. If you move on regularly, you won't ever need solar. They also respect the charging regime required for your battery bank type, rather than supply whatever the alternator thinks necessary, so better if you have different technologies for starter and habitation. If your vehicle has regenerative braking, you'll need to get one that can cope with the consequences of that.

 

[kitetraveller]

Thanks for the comments!
Payload is fine, but a good call and worth checking.
I am going for the Sterling B2B1250 when I can afford it, and (unless anyone can point me to a cheaper version) the Ctek mxs10 as a mains charger.

Solar will have to wait until we have saved some more pennies.....

 

[Bart]

a battery monitor will help you understand how much you actually use. In fact, I’d start with the monitor, first.

Totally agree as i fitted a Victron battery monitor , but it was the last item i fitted and i wish i would of fitted it first as it gives you an accurate reading of what you are using and therefore help you get the correct size of battery bank / solar etc.

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[kitetraveller]

Just did the maths, and it looks like the Waeco CR80 can draw 4A!

No wonder our old 85ah battery is wheezing!!

I got a Sterling B2B 1250 at a good price, so that will help when we get the 'big boy' later in the month.

Got a Ctex MXS as well, so hopefully that will keep things charging for now.....just need to look at solar and we are complete!

Cheers
Andy

Is that a compressor fridge...? As opposed to a 3 way.... If so they can be quite a draw on the 12v system and a good charging system of solar and a proper battery to battery (as opposed to just a split charge relay ) charger would be worth while to keep your battery charged...
As you say a good multi stage mains charger built into the system for when you are on hookup. .
Andy.

 

[two]

Luckily your fridge will not be running continuously. Compressor fridges and solar work together well but you may still not need solar if you have B2B and move frequently.

 

[kitetraveller]

Thanks Rogher.
We are still learning about how we use the van, and what works best for us.

We have had a couple of long weekends in France off hook up, and the hab battery took a bit of a beating; partially because we were not travelling far when moving each day, and it was only the trip from home and back that put charge into the battery.

Heading off to Denmark in June for a couple of weeks, so will see how things go during that trip with the B2B and Ctek before deciding ref solar.

Thanks again

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[kitetraveller]

Update so far....
225ah battery installed; at 50kgs, its not an easy thing to lift into an underseat locker!
Sterling BB1250 installed.
Ctek MXS 10 installed.
All working well with leisure battery charging when motor running, or when on EHU.

The only bit missing, which we had with the previous Durite 140 VSR, is the potential to top up the vehicle battery from the leisure battery when on EHU.
The Durite 140 is a dual sensing relay, and would feed charge back to the vehicle battery once the leisure battery was sufficiently charged.

The BB1250 does not appear to allow this 'back flow' into the vehicle battery.

Any thoughts on how I can achieve this please?

Thanks
Andy

 

[funflair]

Battery master from Vanbitz or even the Votronic one will do what you want.

https://www.roadpro.co.uk/product/02e02-battery-maintainers/votronic-battery-master-c8451/C8451

https://www.vanbitz.com/product/battery-master/

Martin

 

[kitetraveller]

Many thanks, exactly the info I needed!

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