How are speed limits changed by vehicle weight?

BobtheBass

BobtheBass

Joined
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Tewkesbury
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Hymer T-SL 668
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March 2014
I am waiting on delivery of a 2015 Chausson 718EB on a new Ford chassis which has been increased to 4.1t. I have tried emailing Chausson to find out what they do to the chassis to increase the capacity to this figure (it costs another £800) but have no reply to any of my emails, and Highbridge couldn't tell me either as Ford supply the chassis to Chausson direct. My question however is how does the increased carrying capacity change the speed limits I can go on dual carriageways and derestricted roads? I know when you go over 3.5t the limits drop to 60 and 50 mph, but does this apply to the actual weight of the vehicle (its just over 3.1t I believe unladen) or the plated capacity? This is all new to me, so sorry if I am being a bit dim. Thanks.
 
Theres every chance the chassis is already capable of 4.1t but for the uk market they are downrated to 3.5t to cover car licence drivers who can only drive up to 3.5t.

If it is rated at 3.5t then the extra charge may be uprated tyres and suspension to bring it up to 4.1t spc.
 
What are the graded rights weight wise
Is it 3.5t or 7.5t I can never remember
Old age I suppose
 
richr said:
What are the graded rights weight wise
Is it 3.5t or 7.5t I can never remember
Old age I suppose
Click to expand...
If you mean grandfather rights.....7500kg

Thats cat C1 on your pre 1997 licence

Everyone with an unrestricted car licence can drive 3500kg.

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hi, not sure myself but the speed limits are based on the unladen weight of the vehicle. for that definition look at the gov web site but think its the weight of the vehicle excluding fuel, water occupants etc.. if that comes in at under 3.05t then the speed limits are as for a car.. and think a lot of motorhomes come in at that..
ta andy
 
sorry just looked at your post again...3.1t unladen wht takes you over the limit I mentioned above, so the lower limits would apply to you...
 
ta, for that, and never looked in to that side of it as my conversion is on a transit 350 so my max wht is 3.5t, and take it I fall within the car speed limits...... please tell me if I have that wrong ....
ta andy
 
andy63 said:
ta, for that, and never looked in to that side of it as my conversion is on a transit 350 so my max wht is 3.5t, and take it I fall within the car speed limits...... please tell me if I have that wrong ....
ta andy
Click to expand...

Oh dear !!!!!

Vans and ‘car-derived’ vans
Most vans are under 7.5 tonnes laden (loaded) weight and must follow the speed limits for goods vehicles of the same weight. This includes Ford Transit vans.

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

I wouldnt worry....just the way its worded.

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but I have re registered as a motor caravan, and that led me to believe car speed limits apply to my conversion.
that was my understanding.. sorry don't want to hijack the op original post lol, but wanted to be clear about my situation as well..
ta andy
 
Motorhomes or motor caravans (not more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight) 30 (48) 60 (96) 70 (112) 70 (112)

Motorhomes or motor caravans (more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight) 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 70 (112)

You may fall into catagory 2....more than.
 
I could , but the weigh bridge shows me as not doing so...and that's carrying fuel and myself which are not included in the definition of unladen wht. I came in at 2.9t from memory hence my assumptions..
but got the idea, and still think im ok the car speed limits.
ta andy
 
pappajohn said:
If you mean grandfather rights.....7500kg

Thats cat C1 on your pre 1997 licence

Everyone with an unrestricted car licence can drive 3500kg.
Click to expand...

Thanks
Yes I meant grandad rights
Bloody predictive text

Being an old git then I'm on 7.5t test taken in 1977 god I feel old

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jonandshell said:
Not for a motor caravan.
3.05 tonnes unladen is the threshold for lower speed limits.

50mph single carriageway
60mph dual carriageway
70mpg motorway
Click to expand...
Agreed....which makes a mockery of the law.

Smudger can also drive at those speeds, yet his RV weighs 23 tonnes
 
Got done first trip out in my Auto Trail 6 years ago by a camera speed trap I was doing 60 istead of 50 which was the limit for my class of vehicle,dealers should include information about the limits for the vehicles they sell.
 
andy63 said:
sorry just looked at your post again...3.1t unladen what takes you over the limit I mentioned above, so the lower limits would apply to you...
Click to expand...
3119kg unfortunately. Perhaps I could shave 69kg off somewhere?
 
well at least your post cleared the matter up again .. think it keeps cropping up from time to time on forums, and think folk keep getting confused with what unladen wht is or thinking its max permissible wht that matters.
ta andy

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I dont understand how they define what is below 3.05t unladen when nobody else can find this info.....your vIn plate probably won't show it.
Also, many motorhomes don't show a gross weight in the V5 either and a call to DVSA will tell you if the details aren't in the V5 then they have no actual weight record either.
As many can be 3500kg or 3850kg with no outwardly visible difference.
 
pappajohn said:
I dont understand how they define what is below 3.05t unladen when nobody else can find this info.....your vIn plate probably won't show it.
Also, many motorhomes don't show a gross weight in the V5 either and a call to DVSA will tell you if the details aren't in the V5 then they have no actual weight record either.
As many can be 3500kg or 3850kg with no outwardly visible difference.
Click to expand...

I agree with that and for a self build on a panel van like mine even harder... mine went to a weigh bridge, but as mentioned that means I have things on board that are not included in the definition..
Unladen weight
The unladen weight of any vehicle is the weight of the vehicle when it’s not carrying any passengers, goods or other items.
It includes the body and all parts normally used with the vehicle or trailer when it’s used on a road.
It doesn’t include the weight of the fuel or, if it’s an electric vehicle, the batteries.

I thought most coach built would have it on the vehicle documents, but don't know that.
ta andy
 
But how do they know what your unladen weight is? It is not included on V5; as far as I can see the only weight on that is what they call the "revenue weight", which, as far as I can see is the MGW. And with a motorhome you are never going to be using it unladen so they can't just weigh it.

Oops crossed with pappajohn's post
 
peterc10 said:
But how do they know what your unladen weight is? It is not included on V5; as far as I can see the only weight on that is what they call the "revenue weight", which, as far as I can see is the MGW. And with a motorhome you are never going to be using it unladen so they can't just weigh it.

Oops crossed with pappajohn's post
Click to expand...
as said cant answer that but thought a coach built would be displayed on the documents or a plate.
either way that's what determines your permissible speeds.
 
Not so sure about an electric vehicles batteries.

A regular fuel tank holds a consumable fuel which has mass...therefore weight.
An electric vehicles battery has the same mass whether fully charged or flat.
They cannot count towards payload as without them the vehicle is incomplete and unusable.
They can only count as part of the vehicle so part of the unladen weight

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pappajohn said:
Not so sure about an electric vehicles batteries.

A regular fuel tank holds a consumable fuel which has mass...therefore weight.
An electric vehicles battery has the same mass whether fully charged or flat.
They cannot count towards payload as without them the vehicle is incomplete and unusable.
They can only count as part of the vehicle so part of the unladen weight
Click to expand...

cant comment on that opinion either , other than to say the definition I used is copied from the gov .uk site and I take it to mean that the unladen wht of a n electric vehicle excludes the batteries
 
andy63 said:
cant comment on that opinion either , other than to say the definition I used is copied from the gov .uk site and I take it to mean that the unladen wht of a n electric vehicle excludes the batteries
Click to expand...
I see what you mean....But as usual with an incompitant institution DVSA are contradicting themselves again.


It includes the body and all parts normally used with the vehicle or trailer when it’s used on a road.

It doesn’t include the weight of the fuel or, if it’s an electric vehicle, the batteries.

Mmm....so does the vehicle not normally use batteries....as in paragraph 1

They may as well say it doesn't need an engine so we womt include that either.

DVSA not fit for purpose
 
pappajohn said:
I see what you mean....But as usual with an incompitant institution DVSA are contradicting themselves again.
............
DVSA not fit for purpose
Click to expand...

Are you sure you are not picking on the wrong department?

DVSA is the Driver & Vehicle Sercices Agency - formed from the former Vehicle & Operator Services Agency (VOSA) and the Driving Standards Agency (DSA) - did you perchance mean DVLA?

Whatever, it is neither of these agencies which make the law, they only enforce it or conduct tests on behalf of the Government, nor do they write the advice published on the gov.uk websites - the Laws of this country are enacted by Parliament, written by Treasury Solicitors and interpreted by the High Courts of this green and pleasant land!!!
 
My view is that if you are prosected for say doing 66mph in a 3850kg gross weight MH on a Dual Carriageway in the UK, your defense should be not guilty because the unladen weight of the vehicle is below 3050kg.
The Police will not be able to prove in court that you are wrong and therefore the case will collapse. The burden of proof is on them...game over!

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