Hi all ive been looking at self leveling (1 Viewer)

[Wayne mackie]

Rung around omg nearly 6k so went to look at the system . I'm an old engineer I have owned a few machine shops and still partner in one ive made 1000s of hydraulic rams I looked at the system and from my knowledge of cost of parts I could not get passed £1800 okay rams and hydraulic pumps are cheap so self leveling gadget must be rocket science.no . I came across an engineering company that do a self leveling system and I bought it for £2600 delivered so some of you are going to say fitting is not easy . This system is blue tooth so no wires in the cab every thing goes in the garage and because they are bouble acting rams a percentage of the oil used to push the ram out is then used to retract the oil and the rams are under pressure to stay up not using a spring as spring steel rust in time this also means smaller oil tank in garage . Good thing is the ram is aways lubricated so I'm now installing this in my arto and we will see how I get on . I will make a drill gig and share with anyone that want to do the same

Down side or is it
Self leveling some do it in 2 minutes this will not because you have to hit the ram buttons and do it your self but we are not silly and I done similar before so don't see that being a problem just look a the bubble . I've spoken to the company and said thankyou for charging industrial prices these systems have been use used for a long time on heavy machinery as for maintenance as they are British made all seals are am readily available. As soon as you say motorhome the price goes up . I'm not putting down any system but having been told 6k and if I pay 2k now they can fit me in at the end of the year . And I may have to pay import duty im sure I will hit snags and yes I have planned to make a mechanical gimbal to be lazy but I don't need it in the cab . The first thing I do when I park up is open garage door fetch water so may aswell put switch in garage save work .I would like to know if any one has made something them selfs being an engineer I can't help my self .but 6k its just not there im sure if I did clear instructions anyone could get a local garage to do it . I don't understand smthe use of single acting rams and a spring to hold it up . Double acting are not much more expensive and they are on job's out in all weather I guess if you make it a science to fit them you can charge what you want but I'm old school we were told KISS . Keep it simple stupid . I've been a design engineer and own my own patents.worked subcontract so all the difficult bits no one else wants to do .and I love it .and looking forward to meeting some fellow engineers and gadget makers its a good life if I have upset and ones products I dis not mean to .thats why ive not mentioned any company's only stated me thoughts if right or wrong guess we will know when the job is done I will not use my factory or lift only tools from home or on amazon . Drill jig might cheat and get boys to make go one so it lasts

 

[NicandJay]

I agree £6k is way to expensive and I say good on ya.. you got the skills and can source the parts and know what your doing so I say all the very best to you for doing it. Hope it all works out how you want it

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Have you noticed;-
A really big cake is £50

A really big WEDDING cake is £500.

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[ChrisL]

Great that you have the skills and knowledge to do this, I wish you all the best with it. I'm actually sat outside SAP in Doncaster as I write having levelling jacks fitted, all the wiring, hoses and pump have been fitted and the jacks will be fitted today, it will cost £5,500 which is a lot, however part of that cost has to account for after sales, any warranty claims etc. Also having a large facility with tooling and ramps etc. that can cope with the weight of motorhomes is not cheap and they have to pay the staff, rates, rent, electric etc. and still try and make a profit, they are mega busy here, Mick (the boss) didn't leave here until 9:00 PM last night and he started at 07:00 AM so I don't feel like I'm being taken advantage of financially.

Edit 06:40 am Ivan who's fitting my system has just arrived for work along with another colleague they are certainly not work shy here.

 

[Ninjabob]

Good luck with your project. You are going to need ways to mount your jack's. E&P have custom brackets that normally fit over jacking points so you will have to fashion those yourself. You will need electronics to move the jack's in pairs or you may twist your chassis. Your biggest problem will be access to the underneath of the van without the individual wheel jacks E&P fitters have available in their workshops.

 

[Mr B]

Beats me, that giving there is so many confident people/engineers/diy’ers on here, you can’t buy the self levelling systems and fit yourselves. Not wanting to take money away from SAP (other fitting outlets available), but, like I’ve said, the amount of knowledgeable and confident people on here, I’d be up for it…
Maybe, it’s like solicitors and selling houses… it’s a closed shop.

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[MichaelT]

A replacement E&P ram is £400, all the pipes need to be bent and fitted, brains to self level and 2 days to fit. Still a lot of money but I bet by the time you have completed it and if you charged for your time you would be cheaper but not by as much as you think, however I still think the 5.5k we paid is expensive but as other say its a closed shop but you do get warranty etc.

 

[MichaelT]

Rung around omg nearly 6k so went to look at the system . I'm an old engineer I have owned a few machine shops and still partner in one ive made 1000s of hydraulic rams I looked at the system and from my knowledge of cost of parts I could not get passed £1800 okay rams and hydraulic pumps are cheap so self leveling gadget must be rocket science.no . I came across an engineering company that do a self leveling system and I bought it for £2600 delivered so some of you are going to say fitting is not easy . This system is blue tooth so no wires in the cab every thing goes in the garage and because they are bouble acting rams a percentage of the oil used to push the ram out is then used to retract the oil and the rams are under pressure to stay up not using a spring as spring steel rust in time this also means smaller oil tank in garage . Good thing is the ram is aways lubricated so I'm now installing this in my arto and we will see how I get on . I will make a drill gig and share with anyone that want to do the same

Down side or is it
Self leveling some do it in 2 minutes this will not because you have to hit the ram buttons and do it your self but we are not silly and I done similar before so don't see that being a problem just look a the bubble . I've spoken to the company and said thankyou for charging industrial prices these systems have been use used for a long time on heavy machinery as for maintenance as they are British made all seals are am readily available. As soon as you say motorhome the price goes up . I'm not putting down any system but having been told 6k and if I pay 2k now they can fit me in at the end of the year . And I may have to pay import duty im sure I will hit snags and yes I have planned to make a mechanical gimbal to be lazy but I don't need it in the cab . The first thing I do when I park up is open garage door fetch water so may aswell put switch in garage save work .I would like to know if any one has made something them selfs being an engineer I can't help my self .but 6k its just not there im sure if I did clear instructions anyone could get a local garage to do it . I don't understand smthe use of single acting rams and a spring to hold it up . Double acting are not much more expensive and they are on job's out in all weather I guess if you make it a science to fit them you can charge what you want but I'm old school we were told KISS . Keep it simple stupid . I've been a design engineer and own my own patents.worked subcontract so all the difficult bits no one else wants to do .and I love it .and looking forward to meeting some fellow engineers and gadget makers its a good life if I have upset and ones products I dis not mean to .thats why ive not mentioned any company's only stated me thoughts if right or wrong guess we will know when the job is done I will not use my factory or lift only tools from home or on amazon . Drill jig might cheat and get boys to make go one so it lasts

Whats all this about springs, my E&P does not have springs (or any I can see) the ram goes up by the oil pressure?

 

[funflair]

Whats all this about springs, my E&P does not have springs (or any I can see) the ram goes up by the oil pressure?

Some old RV ones have return springs and I believe there is an option on E&P (or maybe its somebody else) to have a jack on a spring that holds it horizontal to the floor when retracted but this would only be for very low floors and not any of our motorhomes.

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[MichaelT]

Some old RV ones have return springs and I believe there is an option on E&P (or maybe its somebody else) to have a jack on a spring that holds it horizontal to the floor when retracted but this would only be for very low floors and not any of our motorhomes.

yes ours are upright and bolted to chassis so the OP is not comparing like for like maybe?

 

[funflair]

Rung around omg nearly 6k so went to look at the system . I'm an old engineer I have owned a few machine shops and still partner in one ive made 1000s of hydraulic rams I looked at the system and from my knowledge of cost of parts I could not get passed £1800 okay rams and hydraulic pumps are cheap so self leveling gadget must be rocket science.no . I came across an engineering company that do a self leveling system and I bought it for £2600 delivered so some of you are going to say fitting is not easy . This system is blue tooth so no wires in the cab every thing goes in the garage and because they are bouble acting rams a percentage of the oil used to push the ram out is then used to retract the oil and the rams are under pressure to stay up not using a spring as spring steel rust in time this also means smaller oil tank in garage . Good thing is the ram is aways lubricated so I'm now installing this in my arto and we will see how I get on . I will make a drill gig and share with anyone that want to do the same

Down side or is it
Self leveling some do it in 2 minutes this will not because you have to hit the ram buttons and do it your self but we are not silly and I done similar before so don't see that being a problem just look a the bubble . I've spoken to the company and said thankyou for charging industrial prices these systems have been use used for a long time on heavy machinery as for maintenance as they are British made all seals are am readily available. As soon as you say motorhome the price goes up . I'm not putting down any system but having been told 6k and if I pay 2k now they can fit me in at the end of the year . And I may have to pay import duty im sure I will hit snags and yes I have planned to make a mechanical gimbal to be lazy but I don't need it in the cab . The first thing I do when I park up is open garage door fetch water so may aswell put switch in garage save work .I would like to know if any one has made something them selfs being an engineer I can't help my self .but 6k its just not there im sure if I did clear instructions anyone could get a local garage to do it . I don't understand smthe use of single acting rams and a spring to hold it up . Double acting are not much more expensive and they are on job's out in all weather I guess if you make it a science to fit them you can charge what you want but I'm old school we were told KISS . Keep it simple stupid . I've been a design engineer and own my own patents.worked subcontract so all the difficult bits no one else wants to do .and I love it .and looking forward to meeting some fellow engineers and gadget makers its a good life if I have upset and ones products I dis not mean to .thats why ive not mentioned any company's only stated me thoughts if right or wrong guess we will know when the job is done I will not use my factory or lift only tools from home or on amazon . Drill jig might cheat and get boys to make go one so it lasts

You are right these systems are very expensive when you break it down to component parts, designed and made in Netherlands I believe and they sell on at a profit of course, distributed in the UK by somebody who makes a profit and then sold and fitted at profit again so most of the price of the kit is handling profit rather than components parts, but that the way most things are.

Yes I am sure you as a competent engineer can do it yourself but as stated previously you should be operating the rams in pair so as to not impart any twist in the chassis/body, the pairs might go down a bit out of sync but as soon as one touches the other keep going and once it catches up they lifting evenly.

The other issue with your home made system might come if you decide to exchange your van, a professionally fitted commercial system will add value to a used van, a DIY system would have to be good to retain it's value.

 

[funflair]

Interestingly last time we were in a field there were 2 RV's there as well and I noticed that they both had just three jack, 1 at the front and two at the rear, don't know if this is possible on an Arto but it might make levelling easier you just level front to back and then fine tune across the rear jack.

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[Wee Bold Davy]

Have you noticed;-
A really big cake is £50

A really big WEDDING cake is £500.

Like all trades it takes time to learn these skills. I did a 4 year apprenticeship and 3 years at catering college to become a fully time served baker/confectioner. The baker who taught me had been in the trade since he left school aged 14. He was 82 the day I started.
A £50 cake (whatever that is) could be made in a few hours. A quality wedding cake can take a week and many years to learn and fine hone the skills necessary

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Like all trades it takes time to learn these skills. I did a 4 year apprenticeship and 3 years at catering college to become a fully time served baker/confectioner. The baker who taught me had been in the trade since he left school aged 14. He was 82 the day I started.
A £50 cake (whatever that is) could be made in a few hours. A quality wedding cake can take a week and many years to learn and fine hone the skills necessary

Sdly, you completely missed my point. Not a slur on the skill-level of any trade,a comment on retailers

An IDENTICAL cake when preceded by the word “WEDDING” costs more
Just as Hydraulic Rams cost more when preceded by MOTORHOME

 

[Steve and Denise]

Sdly, you completely missed my point. Not a slur on the skill-level of any trade,a comment on retailers

An IDENTICAL cake when preceded by the word “WEDDING” costs more
Just as Hydraulic Rams cost more when preceded by MOTORHOME

Try buying bits for boats £££££££££££+ but they do have self levelling as standard

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[RM_Marine]

Like all trades it takes time to learn these skills. I did a 4 year apprenticeship and 3 years at catering college to become a fully time served baker/confectioner. The baker who taught me had been in the trade since he left school aged 14. He was 82 the day I started.
A £50 cake (whatever that is) could be made in a few hours. A quality wedding cake can take a week and many years to learn and fine hone the skills necessary

But if feels like most of our vans are made by that 14yr old at moment

 

[Wayne mackie]

Its not a slur on any manufacturer just when Franchising products the cost of licensing is passed on to the buyer .please read the website that these rams come from they are very upfront about licensing. Where as c and c hydraulic make them and sell them thats why they are priced as they are . I've been an engineer and hate what the old automotive industry has done to the reputation of our engineers but the way things are made to day will beat any ones standards. Its up to you who buy from im sure there systems are excellent but I myself will invest my money back into the bitish engineering I believe in . Tust me if it was rubbish I would not risk damaging my motorhome .

Ps I love cake

 

[Wayne mackie]

My honest opinion is i would be happy with ma-ve and I think its called e p systems if they were value for money ive not seen any bad press about them . They are what I wanted in the first place its a ram they go up and down not rocket science . In some ways they are better ,but not £3000 better, c and c hydraulic system, you have to level your self I can do that in under 2 minutes but not for everyone . With there system you get a blue tooth handset but like the others can be done via an app . I'm working on a add on for that system to make it one button but it will be what its worth around £50 or if an app even cheaper . Im Only doing this because by being asked for 6k was a slap in my face. Value for money with good back up is all I want .this is not a slur on any installation engineer or system but a comment on the business system that increases cost with every hand it goes though thats why its 6k I bet it started at less than 3k .
If some one wants to talk about the system please pm and I'm happy to share my number and any information I have sorry if I come across strong but having been at the top part of engineering making parts
Cambridge medical robots

Red bull racing F1

Samba medical diagnostics

We have had companies from all over the world come to the UK for us to solve problems . The amount of recording that is done now is mind blowing the serial number on my rams they know who made it ,tested it ,welded it and where the material was purchased from .both the companies im using make parts for heavy industries and there quality control is the best but true both ep and ma ve have been about for some time and I honestly can't say I've heard any bad words against them I definitely would not recommend any system that counts on a spring to keep the ram up dont understand why they have gone that way when the difference between single acting and double acting isn't that much
Wheres the cake please

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[Wayne mackie]

U

Whats all this about springs, my E&P does not have springs (or any I can see) the ram goes up by the oil pressure?

I didn't say e p had springs i said I wouldn't purchase s system that does ,the e p system looks great as ive stated that my only issue is price the gentleman installer of the e p system is working hard to earn money my issue is how it got to that price . I do have a cnc machine shop and a fabrication shop so I know what is involved with the production of theses parts and how to make brackets im not in any way knocking anyones work but if I can with out to much hassle buy system for £2600 and then get the pipes made £400
It does make me think wtf.
and install it my self .its not for everyone its another option.

 

[Steve and Denise]

U

I didn't say e p had springs i said I wouldn't purchase s system that does ,the e p system looks great as ive stated that my only issue is price the gentleman installer of the e p system is working hard to earn money my issue is how it got to that price . I do have a cnc machine shop and a fabrication shop so I know what is involved with the production of theses parts and how to make brackets im not in any way knocking anyones work but if I can with out to much hassle buy system for £2600 and then get the pipes made £400
It does make me think wtf.
and install it my self .its not for everyone its another option.

I can’t fault you Wayne I would love to see your legs up and working, you obviously have a good understanding of hydraulics and as you say this is not that complicated.
In my younger days I have built many tilt and slide recovery vehicles even put specs on the rear but now a bit to long in the tooth to fit a set of rams on my 6.5 ton van.
Best of luck with your project don’t let the armchair experts put you off,
I love a good project,cars bikes trucks aircraft engines and anything interesting

 

[GAVLAD]

Best priced leveller on the market

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[Steve and Denise]

Whats all this about springs, my E&P does not have springs (or any I can see) the ram goes up by the oil pressure?

Some of the old yank types had spring return but none of EP they are all double acting rams, but you knew that anyway

 

[Steve and Denise]

Best priced leveller on the market

Very good for levelling your enemies one handed

 

[Wayne mackie]

There is a system ive seem on the web with springs dont know who made it but hay ho .I'm okay if any one want to look at mine including installation engineers along as they give a honest review im happy. I've said in the past I will not give any views on anyone else's product unless I've seen it ive seen how e p and ma-ve work and they are mechanically not much different but ive only seen them on the web . The price is not always the guy in the work shops fault I know how hard it can be to earn money sometimes the money has gone before he gets it . And its true the amount and cost of the tool you need is soul destroying pluss the insurance cost . I don't know if they can but can you install this one aswell . Yes im pushing it but I don't want to make it my work . I wanted a new living room fire they brithish gass man can round he started at 5k ended up at 2k I kicked him out its parasites like that are wrecking the UK praying on older people thinking they don't know better. I hate that ive always worked for an honest rate im not saying your all to expensive but I'm asking you why you are charging so how long does it take to fit any system. If I knew why then I might understand more .

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[Wayne mackie]

Love the brick but hope its from the london brick company not an import

 

[Wayne mackie]

Day i loose my sence of humour stick the lid on im done

 

[stevewagner]

You are right these systems are very expensive when you break it down to component parts, designed and made in Netherlands I believe and they sell on at a profit of course, distributed in the UK by somebody who makes a profit and then sold and fitted at profit again so most of the price of the kit is handling profit rather than components parts, but that the way most things are.

Yes I am sure you as a competent engineer can do it yourself but as stated previously you should be operating the rams in pair so as to not impart any twist in the chassis/body, the pairs might go down a bit out of sync but as soon as one touches the other keep going and once it catches up they lifting evenly.

The other issue with your home made system might come if you decide to exchange your van, a professionally fitted commercial system will add value to a used van, a DIY system would have to be good to retain it's value.

Actually accessories don’t add much in the way of value, they just make them more desirable and easier to sell.

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[Steve and Denise]

There is a system ive seem on the web with springs dont know who made it but hay ho .I'm okay if any one want to look at mine including installation engineers along as they give a honest review im happy. I've said in the past I will not give any views on anyone else's product unless I've seen it ive seen how e p and ma-ve work and they are mechanically not much different but ive only seen them on the web . The price is not always the guy in the work shops fault I know how hard it can be to earn money sometimes the money has gone before he gets it . And its true the amount and cost of the tool you need is soul destroying pluss the insurance cost . I don't know if they can but can you install this one aswell . Yes im pushing it but I don't want to make it my work . I wanted a new living room fire they brithish gass man can round he started at 5k ended up at 2k I kicked him out its parasites like that are wrecking the UK praying on older people thinking they don't know better. I hate that ive always worked for an honest rate im not saying your all to expensive but I'm asking you why you are charging so how long does it take to fit any system. If I knew why then I might understand more .

If you want to look at my EP done by SAP your more than welcome.
Years ago I could not afford such luxury now I can everything is relevant, today I have been under our van replacing a air pressure switch on the air suspension compressor, glad I had the legs to lift the van up, or that would have been yet another trip to the so called dealers for a so called technician to assess the problem

 

[Wayne mackie]

Yes they make a profit who in work doesn't nothing wrong with what they are doing .I know the guys here are not getting all that . But there is a British option that is worth looking at . For me I don't want to be mucking around with bits under my wheel, the van next to me this minute has them and I watched him do it in just a few minutes .its a luxury but I some cases people have no option because they can't bend down ,im being lazy I have a pair of wedges but love gadgets but I have always been a person that is carful thats the Scottish in me lol and im sure the rams from elsewhere are just as good in some cases better but I'm still going to wave the flag of British industry because I've seen the changes first hand . And here's a British company willing to listen to you . Fitting im happy to help anyone .but I would like the current installation engineers to at least have a look and see what they say but im a good engineer if they come out with crap I will shoot them down but open to honest reviews there's nothing in it for me except . British industry has got smaller . I wasn't the best at school but always loved mucking about with engines our kids can't all be doctors some like me are happier working with our hands . So if more of us buy British we are giving our kids a chance . No one talk about pollution from industry that would just kill my last statement . I've just bought a new cnc lathe its a lot more efficient and uses less power to produce parts . Ac motors instead of dc but all that is by the by . After reading what the installation engineer had to say my heart go put to him how hard it is to earn a wage I know he's not joking . No disrespect to him or his work in any way . Why would there be hes a British worker and we are the best . No rasist in any way aswell as Scottish farther my mother was from Hong Kong and I was born in Germany so even if I fly the British flag to much its not ment to offend anyone just a proud British engineer
And we are called
BRIT ISH lol

 

[olley]

My winnie has spring return hydraulic rams, occasionally get a bit sticky but a lever under them sorts it.

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