Herald of free enterprise documentary (1 Viewer)

[EuroTrotters]

Watched it on channel 5 streaming last night. Still seems like yesterday.

 

[xsparks]

I was on the sister ship a week later and could appreciate how difficult it would be to survive once the ship rolled onto its side.

 

[Howard B]

When i was posted in Paderborn, a few of my neighbours were on the Herald when went over. Fortunately they made it off, but one of the wives had really bad PTSD as a result.

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[Taran_Las]

Watched it on channel 5 streaming last night. Still seems like yesterday.

As you say, seems like yesterday.

 

[Minxy]

I watched it last week, very sad and infuriating at the same time ... why it happened was interesting to know but I found it galling that no-one was actually prosecuted in the end.

 

[Dorwyn]

It was very well covered in the day, some of the most upsetting scenes, it must have put many off ferries. It's one of the reasons I'm not so keen, preferring the tunnel, although not the main reason. But I decided not to watch the program to avoid those images.

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[steve69]

I was on the sister ship a week later and could appreciate how difficult it would be to survive once the ship rolled onto its side.

Coincidence. I was on the sister ship (Spirit of free enterprise) a week before the disaster...

 

[DuxDeluxe]

The causes were truly shocking failures at all levels - the MAIB report makes for very interesting reading and I once used it as a basis for a presentation on management failings. It is true that due to the free surface effect (try carrying a tea tray full of water and see how much you spill) simply totally destroys all stability; about an inch of water in the car deck will sink the ship. There have been radical design and working practise/regulatory changes since then to make it much, much safer

 

[Lenny HB]

What he'd a week or two ago, Ben on that ferry a few times.
Used to be normal practice to set sail with the doors open. Had one where I was late they waved me on and the boat was moving before I got the handbrake on.

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[L' Hobo]

I was trucking then and using the ferries, at least, twice a week, I could have been on there and I knew some that were.

It took me sometime to completely relax after the sinking, especially if my cabin was in the bowels of the ship as the Truck driver's accommodation often was.
I would stay topside and sleep in my cab later. Not all drivers could have that choice. Yet another perk of being an owner driver.

When I later took Coach parties abroad, I always used to emphasise (sometime too much) how important it was to know how to get oneself back to the upper decks. (Remember the graphics of different animals on each deck? )

All those people, and the ones on the ferry in Sweden, lost because of thinking, rules were not important!

 

[Detnor]

I was working on an ex DFDS cruise ferry out of Los Angeles. We were preparing to sail when the news came through, the crew were stunned and shocked. We went around double checking everything.

 

[BikerGraham]

I watched it last week, very sad and infuriating at the same time ... why it happened was interesting to know but I found it galling that no-one was actually prosecuted in the end.

corporate manslaughter law was strengthened following this. The "controlling mind" being a major change to enable prosecutions to be succesful.

Lord Justice Sheen made the comment that the organisation was "riddled with the disease of sloppiness from the top down". A damning statement if ever there was one.

Health and Safety sentencing guidelines were further strengthend in 2016 to ensure company's are made to pay and since then the number of fines in excess of £1m has increased considerably. Also more people have been given custodial sentences.

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[f6c]

My wife and I where on Enterprise two weeks before and the doors were open going out to sea. We where left on the car deck on our own to lash our motorcycle down. By the time we got up on deck we were some distance out to sea. Bless those poor souls. R.I.P.

 

[The Dotties]

When i was posted in Paderborn, a few of my neighbours were on the Herald when went over. Fortunately they made it off, but one of the wives had really bad PTSD as a result.

Pray tell…….where in Paderborn and when?

 

[Howard B]

Pray tell…….where in Paderborn and when?

Elsen from 1988 to 1990 (5 Ord Bn) and Sennelager from 1993 to 1995 (QDG).

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[Googlebot]

A perfect example of disaster causality were lots of little events lined up to sink the ship, each one on its own wouldn’t have caused an issue.

That doesn’t help all those poor people who were killed.

Can only hope that safety standards never drop to that level again.

 

[The Dotties]

Elsen from 1988 to 1990 (5 Ord Bn) and Sennelager from 1993 to 1995 (QDG).

I was a bit earlier than you. Barker Barracks Paderborn 68-72. (Royal Artillery).
Regiment moved do Dortmund in 74

 

[Howard B]

I was a bit earlier than you. Barker Barracks Paderborn 68-72. (Royal Artillery).
Regiment moved do Dortmund in 74

I was only in Junior school in 68.
We were in Barker Barracks as well with 5 Ord..

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[The Dotties]

I was only in Junior school in 68.
We were in Barker Barracks as well with 5 Ord..

That’s made me feel old! Thanks!

 

[Spriddler]

I heard about it on the car radio early in the morning whilst driving to Southampton with a pal to take a renewal DoT 'Survival at Sea' exam required as part of my commercial skipper licence. It certainly focused our thoughts on the usefulness of the day's practical tests ahead of us.

 

[Soycd]

Pray tell…….where in Paderborn and when?

I was in Guetersloh from 1987 until 2016. I used to enjoy going to Paderborn, bit more lively than GT. I arrived 6 month after the tragic event and it had had a big impact on folk in BAOR. As those of us stationed out there at that time will remember, that particular ferry route was the quickest port to get to from BAOR/BFG so was heavily used by UK military and civilian personnel and their families.

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[fat haggis]

I was posted in Bracht at the time. Headed down in a staff car with CO. It was a sad sight.

 

[BikerGraham]

A perfect example of disaster causality were lots of little events lined up to sink the ship, each one on its own wouldn’t have caused an issue.

That doesn’t help all those poor people who were killed.

Can only hope that safety standards never drop to that level again.

Swiss cheese model of causation. James Reason.

That’s why human factors is such a hot potato in the high hazard industry.

Unfortunately “corporate” have poor memories and forget the lessons of past incidents. Trevor Kletz

Piper alpha 1988
Buncefield 2005
Texas city 2005
Deep water horizon 2010

To name but a few

Also a number of incidents in the railways over the years since.

 

[Silver-Fox]

That’s made me feel old! Thanks!

But you are old.

Didn’t you use to drive a chariot

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[EuroTrotters]

I sailed on her in around 1980. I think about it almost every time we travel on ferries.

I had a nightmare after watching it that I was on a ferry and it did the same.

 

[EuroTrotters]

The causes were truly shocking failures at all levels - the MAIB report makes for very interesting reading and I once used it as a basis for a presentation on management failings. It is true that due to the free surface effect (try carrying a tea tray full of water and see how much you spill) simply totally destroys all stability; about an inch of water in the car deck will sink the ship. There have been radical design and working practise/regulatory changes since then to make it much, much safer

Really ! 1 inch !?

 

[Brains]

Swiss cheese model of causation. James Reason.

That’s why human factors is such a hot potato in the high hazard industry.

Unfortunately “corporate” have poor memories and forget the lessons of past incidents. Trevor Kletz

Piper alpha 1988
Buncefield 2005
Texas city 2005
Deep water horizon 2010

To name but a few

Also a number of incidents in the railways over the years since.

Dona Paz 1987
Express Samina 2000
Estonia 1994
Salem Express 1991

All were RoRo's that should not have sunk.
Hence I always know my route to the deck, in the dark at all times.

There is no such thing as 'corporate memory', only regulation and the threat of personal prison time and excessive fines will keep 'corporations' in check

Bophal in 1984 is a classic 'it wern't me guv' corporate avoidance case, thousands dead, no one to blame.

Look up the 2006 story of the "Probo Koala" (if you don't already know it)
In summary: a large corporate dumped thousands of tonnes of toxic waste in west africa, killed hundreds and made thousands sick. CEO goes to sort it out with suitcase of cash, gets thrown in jail locally and not let out until each and every person affected is paid off and the mess cleared up.
It's amazing how fast they managed to do that with the CEO and CFO inside until the last dollar paid.
(Which is not quite the version of the story told on Wikipedia, but it's version told in West Africa and also by Trafiguria)

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[DuxDeluxe]

Really ! 1 inch !?

Oh yes. I can dig out my Derret’s ship stability text book if you want. Have think back to that tray full of not very much water…….. then multiply that by several tens of metres of flat deck… a slight roll and it all gushes to one side and over you go. No way back, either. Cruise ships, car carriers and ferries are all very “tender” ships with slim (legal) stability margins

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Dona Paz 1987
Express Samina 2000
Estonia 1994
Salem Express 1991

All were RoRo's that should not have sunk.
Hence I always know my route to the deck, in the dark at all times.

There is no such thing as 'corporate memory', only regulation and the threat of personal prison time and excessive fines will keep 'corporations' in check

Bophal in 1984 is a classic 'it wern't me guv' corporate avoidance case, thousands dead, no one to blame.

Look up the 2006 story of the "Probo Koala" (if you don't already know it)
In summary: a large corporate dumped thousands of tonnes of toxic waste in west africa, killed hundreds and made thousands sick. CEO goes to sort it out with suitcase of cash, gets thrown in jail locally and not let out until each and every person affected is paid off and the mess cleared up.
It's amazing how fast they managed to do that with the CEO and CFO inside until the last dollar paid.
(Which is not quite the version of the story told on Wikipedia, but it's version told in West Africa and also by Trafiguria)

…..and numerous car carriers underestimating the free surface effect of bunker fuel in slack double bottom bunker tanks……

 

[Brains]

Oh yes. I can dig out my Derret’s ship stability text book if you want. Have think back to that tray full of not very much water…….. then multiply that by several tens of metres of flat deck… a slight roll and it all gushes to one side and over you go. No way back, either. Cruise ships, car carriers and ferries are all very “tender” ships with slim (legal) stability margins

Inverted icebergs
More above water than below it.
Hence inherently unstable

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