Help with seat belts abroad (1 Viewer)

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Apr 29, 2014
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Hi everyone we are driving to Denmark in July via France Belgium Holland and Germany we have a auto trail chieftain with two side facing and one front facing we are taking our two granddaughters we do have lap belts but does anyone know is it law to have three point belts
 

Badknee

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Personally I would not have my grandchildren in anything other than forward facing seats with three point belts - and, I'd include any adults in that!
IIRC belts that were fitted when new will be ok but please consider the above post.
 

tonka

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This may help... In particular look at the answer to the first question..
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Depending on the year of your van, check the log book / V5 it may state a legal number of passenger seats...
 

Minxy

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Hi everyone we are driving to Denmark in July via France Belgium Holland and Germany we have a auto trail chieftain with two side facing and one front facing we are taking our two granddaughters we do have lap belts but does anyone know is it law to have three point belts
AFAIK it will depend on their ages and possibly what the actual laws are in Denmark etc via doing this.

Personally I would NEVER carry children in a vehicle without 3-point forward or rear facing seats for them. Adults can decide for themselves if they want to take the risk of sitting like this, but kids cannot, however I believe it is ultimately up to the driver to decide though as he/she will be held responsible if there are any injuries caused.

As for side facing seat with lap restraints - IMV they are a definite NO-NO!!!! They can cause horrific injuries!

Ask yourself one question ... how woul you feel if your grandchildren were injuried due to you using either no seat belts at all, or lap belts, their parents should in reality have the last say on this ...

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sally47
Apr 29, 2014
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Thanks for that and of course you are right it's not about the law it's about safety so will look to have them converted the other problem I have is they creep into the bed in the back to sleep have to get a giant cage me thinks
 

Minxy

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Thanks for that and of course you are right it's not about the law it's about safety so will look to have them converted the other problem I have is they creep into the bed in the back to sleep have to get a giant cage me thinks
Hi Sally, I seriously doubt you'll find anyone who will fit 3 point belts on SIDE facing seats, there are very few who would even consider doing so on front/rear facing ones.

It also appears that you are already taking the kiddies with you and suggest you re-think doing this at all as every time you go out with them in the rear you are putting them at risk.

The reality is that you actually have the wrong motorhome layout for taking rear passengers in ... :xsad:
 

Gorse Hill

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Hi everyone we are driving to Denmark in July via France Belgium Holland and Germany we have a auto trail chieftain with two side facing and one front facing we are taking our two granddaughters we do have lap belts but does anyone know is it law to have three point belts

I think (not sure) you will find that most M/H are not tested under crash conditions, however one that is the Bailey range if you search on YouTube for the Bailey at Millbank testing centre you can see the damage caused might be something of intrest
 

pappajohn

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3 point side facing can cause as bad, if not worse, injuries than a lap belt.
The diagonal belt will either slip off or cause severe neck injuries depending which shoulder it's over and the direction of impact.
 
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Chockswahay

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Hi Sally,

I do feel for you. You asked a valid question but I'm afraid you won't like the answers :eek:

Side belts are indeed VERY dangerous in the event of an impact. I would urge you not to carry your grand daughters in the van unless you can fully solve the problem. 3 point forward facing are the only option if you wish to provide the best protection for them.

Minx does have a point

sorry :cautious:

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Gellyneck

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When looking for our motorhome middle of this year we were told all kind of stories about the legality \ safety of side benches with and without seatbelts.
At the end of the day we made a conscious decision we would restrict our search to motorhomes with forward (or rearward) facing three point seatbelts - and we only take our dog with us!
 

bernardfeay

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I have no objection to wearing seat belts - it's the law and there is a penalty for disobedience.

However, I've probably driven close to one million miles and my seat belts have not been needed to save me from an injury. I don't want to be smug but I believe I drive in a sufficiently defensive manner.

I have known instances where parents would not allow a toddler into my car for an airport pick up because of the lack of a spare seat/seatbelt.

The big safety measure that does need to be enforced is to get all that clutter off the front and back windows.
 

Minxy

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I have no objection to wearing seat belts - it's the law and there is a penalty for disobedience.

However, I've probably driven close to one million miles and my seat belts have not been needed to save me from an injury. I don't want to be smug but I believe I drive in a sufficiently defensive manner.
Unfortunately, though, it's not you who you need to worry about, its the idiots on the road who you cannot do anything about ...
 

Gellyneck

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I have no objection to wearing seat belts - it's the law and there is a penalty for disobedience.

However, I've probably driven close to one million miles and my seat belts have not been needed to save me from an injury. I don't want to be smug but I believe I drive in a sufficiently defensive manner.

I have known instances where parents would not allow a toddler into my car for an airport pick up because of the lack of a spare seat/seatbelt.

The big safety measure that does need to be enforced is to get all that clutter off the front and back windows.

Agree on the remove clutter but just because you drive sufficiently defensively doesn't mean to say all other drivers do!
Anybody could drive x million miles but on the x million and first someone else pulls out of an unmarked concealed entrance and ................
The parents are quite right when they don't allow their children to travel unrestrained, 1 it's illegal and 2 it's potentially deadlier than the clutter on the rear parcel shelf!

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Badknee

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I have no objection to wearing seat belts - it's the law and there is a penalty for disobedience.

However, I've probably driven close to one million miles and my seat belts have not been needed to save me from an injury. I don't want to be smug but I believe I drive in a sufficiently defensive manner.

I have known instances where parents would not allow a toddler into my car for an airport pick up because of the lack of a spare seat/seatbelt.

The big safety measure that does need to be enforced is to get all that clutter off the front and back windows.
I'm afraid your point wouldn't hold up in court Bernard, nor telling it to a parent of a badly injured child. It's not you my friend, it's every other bugger out there you need to be frightened of.
 

bernardfeay

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I seem to have given the impression that I am against seat belts; I'm not. I merely point out that the risk of an injury is a statistical fact. If you drive carefully that risk is minimised, but I agree that there is still a risk.

Tonight the weather is freezing and there will be black ice; the risk of an accident is increased in these circumstances. I will be picking my wife up from the railway station. I have put new tyres on to improve my grip, I will watch for cars that might skid and I will break carefully and early. But, I will still go out. I take the risk.

And, for what it's worth, I always wear a seat belt
 

Puddleduck

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But, I will still go out. I take the risk.

And, for what it's worth, I always wear a seat belt

Taking the risk yourself is your prerogative - as it is the prerogative of parents not to take the risk of putting their children in a car which is not fitted with suitable child restraints.

I would never put my grandson into a vehicle without a child seat - and that includes buses.
 

Gorse Hill

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I have no objection to wearing seat belts - it's the law and there is a penalty for disobedience.

However, I've probably driven close to one million miles and my seat belts have not been needed to save me from an injury. I don't want to be smug but I believe I drive in a sufficiently defensive manner.

I have known instances where parents would not allow a toddler into my car for an airport pick up because of the lack of a spare seat/seatbelt.

The big safety measure that does need to be enforced is to get all that clutter off the front and back windows.
If you go and look at the video I mentioned before I think you might change your mind, talk of clutter, on the test both the microwave and fridge ended up outside the van at low impact now that's not clutter
Let's not forget what we are talking about here it's basically a wooden box strapped to a chassis and adequate seatbelts are your only safety net, if at all
 
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It is illegal to carry a child under three years old in any vehicle that does not have the correct seating (whether that be standard adult belts, a child seat, or a booster seat.

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Chockswahay

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Well here's a thing.......... much to my COMPLETE surprise.............. taxi's are allowed to carry infants without proper safety restraints :eek::eek::mad::mad::mad:
 

Puddleduck

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Well here's a thing.......... much to my COMPLETE surprise.............. taxi's are allowed to carry infants without proper safety restraints :eek::eek::mad::mad::mad:

Yes, it's a bit of a shock when you find that out isn't it? Just because it's allowed doesn't mean it's right though - and I still wouldn't use one with my Grandson unless it had the correct child restraint.
 
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Chockswahay

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I only found out about the taxi thing a few weeks ago when I saw a young mum and 2 babies get in to the back of a taxi outside Morrisons..................... I did ask are they aware of the risks and was told to F@£k off and that they would be quite safe lying on her lap :eek::eek:

It is the children I am concerned for......

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bernardfeay

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I only found out about the taxi thing a few weeks ago when I saw a young mum and 2 babies get in to the back of a taxi outside Morrisons..................... I did ask are they aware of the risks and was told to F@£k off and that they would be quite safe lying on her lap :eek::eek:

It is the children I am concerned for......
aren't you going to tell us if the babies lived or died?
 

Puddleduck

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aren't you going to tell us if the babies lived or died?

Not funny Bernard. A friend's child (unrestrained) was killed in a motor accident when an HGV ran into her parents' car. The grandfather committed suicide shortly afterwards as he said it was his fault as he had refused to use the childseat.
 

lou020

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didn't you know? taxis have different laws to the rest of us, they don't have speed limits, don't have to stop at red lights, can pull straight out at junctions, probably use the same laws as the country they're from.
 

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