Help with 12v Electrical Problem (1 Viewer)

[quickweh]

After being on mains hook up for a week we left to go to Jaws Thetford meet and found that our 12v system had gone missing, the display was a complete blank. Started the engine and the display restored.
Thanks to john Jaws he shorted the split charge relay which gave a temporary fix, the downside is that the cab battery became the leisure battery as well!!
The problem is that the system will not charge the leisure batteries. The solar controller displays 14v but not to the leisure battery terminals. The battery charger displays 13.8v but not to the leisure battery terminals. the battery isolator switch only sees the solar or battery charger voltage.
Our van is a Laika Rexosline 2009 with Nordelectronica electrics. All fuses are intact and the cable feed connecting block from the leisure battery to the control wiring shows the battery voltage but no charging voltage at the other side of the block.
Thanks

 

[GeoffnDee]

I dont know if it is any help but apuljack engineering repair Nordelectronica systems and may have an answer through their technical department.

 

[fat haggis]

Change all the fuses to new ones they may look ok and still be duff. It’s easy to replace them all for new fuses. And you may get lucky.

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[pappajohn]

If possible bypass the battery isolator with a short length of wire.
It sounds like thats the problem.

 

[quickweh]

If possible bypass the battery isolator with a short length of wire.
It sounds like thats the problem.

Thanks, just tried and no difference.
It's an odd situation, ignition off, no 12v supply to the control panel, start engine control panel and all van functions work. Bridge split charge relay and everything works but off the vehicle battery the bonus is that I've a solar feed to the vehicle battery.

 

[Spriddler]

........ the cable feed connecting block from the leisure battery to the control wiring shows the battery voltage but no charging voltage at the other side of the block.
Thanks

I've no idea what the 'block' is but if there's voltage at one side of it and not at the other I'd assume there's a fault in the 'block'.

Deleted. I think I've got the wrong of the stick.

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[GeoffnDee]

Not sure what you mean by block , do you mean that you have voltage up to the Nord unit connection from the leisure battery ,confirming that the main leisure battery fuse is ok ?

 

[autorouter]

the battery isolator switch only sees the solar or battery charger voltage.

So have I got this right? One side of the battery isolator always has the charger voltage, whether the isolator is on or off. The other side shows the charger voltage when the isolator is on, and nothing when the isolator is off.

 

[quickweh]

Not sure what you mean by block , do you mean that you have voltage up to the Nord unit connection from the leisure battery ,confirming that the main leisure battery fuse is ok ?

Exactly, the "block" is the assembly of fuse boards relays and PCB. Off to phone Apuljack now. Thanks for the info.

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[quickweh]

No, the isolator when on only sees the charge voltage, solar or mains charger.
The problem is that the charging system only charges the cab battery either when the engine is running or when the split charge relay is bridged. This also applies to the display on the control panel, it only displays when the engine is running or the split charge relay is bridged.

 

[Lenny HB]

You say you checked all the fuses often there is a 50 amp Maxi Blade fuse close to the battery if you have one and it's blown that would give your symptoms.

 

[autorouter]

No, the isolator when on only sees the charge voltage, solar or mains charger.

This is the isolator for the leisure battery, right? When it is off, what do you see? Charge voltage on one side, and nothing on the other? Or charge voltage on one side, and leisure battery voltage on the other?

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[quickweh]

You say you checked all the fuses often there is a 50 amp Maxi Blade fuse close to the battery if you have one and it's blown that would give your symptoms.

Thanks, checked and OK

 

[quickweh]

This is the isolator for the leisure battery, right? When it is off, what do you see? Charge voltage on one side, and nothing on the other? Or charge voltage on one side, and leisure battery voltage on the other

Pulled the solar fuse (no charge) cab battery 13.4v one side nothing on the other. Its cab battery voltage because of bridging the split charge relay. Remove bridging and zero both sides.

 

[autorouter]

Presuming the leisure battery isolator is very near the leisure battery, Are you getting a voltage reading from the actual leisure battery terminals? And from the terminal clamps? Does the negative work OK from the chassis?

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[quickweh]

Presuming the leisure battery isolator is very near the leisure battery, Are you getting a voltage reading from the actual leisure battery terminals? And from the terminal clamps? Does the negative work OK from the chassis?

With the bridging wire removed from the split charge relay there is no voltage on either side of the battery isolator or anywhere in the system other than the cab battery feed to the split charge relay.
With the bridging wire the isolator shows the cab battery voltage and presumably a back feed to power the control panel and habitation functions.
I'm getting a 13.2v reading from the leisure battery terminals and 13.1 from the connecting cable feeding into the fuse block.
The negative works fine from the chassis.
Thanks for your interest, I have asked Apuljack Engineering to have a look at my system and am waiting a reply for cost and lead time for a repair.

 

[autorouter]

As I understand it, a battery isolator is near the battery, and is connected directly to the main fuse (50A?) which is connected directly to the battery positive terminal. You have 13.2V at the leisure battery terminals.

You can check the fuse connections with the fuse removed. One of them should connect straight to the battery, and should read 13.2V. With a good fuse inserted, you can check the battery isolator switch terminals. With the isolator off, one of them should read 13.2V. If that doesn't happen, you have a problem that's nothing to do with the distribution/fusebox.

 

[TheBig1]

This sounds like a bad fuse or a break in either the positive or negative wires to the battery

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[quickweh]

13.2 volts here at the connector, the red cable is from the battery, the grey goes to the 50 Amp fuse block.

13.2 volts at 50 Amp fuse blades.

Reverse of 50 Amp fuse holder showing cable (Centre) from leisure battery.

40 Amp fuse holder with cables to battery isolation switch, no voltage detected.

So on this system there appears to be no direct battery connection to the isolation switch.

 

[GeoffnDee]

Are these readings taken with or without the bridge at the relay in place ? Do you mean 13.2v across the 50 amp fuse blades with it fitted in the holder ,with something switched on , to make a circuit , if so it would, indicate faulty fuse .
Have you a photo of the isolation switch ?

 

[autorouter]

In the first photo, the red & black wires go into a black connector, and grey & black wires come out. I take it that the red & black are direct from the battery, with nothing in between. The grey wire is the feed for the 6-way fuse module, and goes to the common busbar inside that module. Another thick grey wire comes out of that fuse module - it's the one protected by the 50A fuse. So where does that grey wire go? To the battery isolator switch?

What are the grey and pink wires on the right of the main feed in the second picture? Is it possible they are the solar and mains charger? You could check the voltage at the wire terminals.

This 'battery isolator switch' sounds odd. Could it be an isolator for something like an inverter, that has been removed and the wiring disconnected?

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[GeoffnDee]

Can you confirm the voltage directly across the leisure battery terminals (with the temp. relay link removed) is 13v+

 

[daveandsan]

quickweh any progress yet Mike?

 

[quickweh]

Yes Dave, will post details here later.

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[quickweh]

First thanks to everyone who responded to this thread and for the advice offered. Finally thanks to Lance Dunworkin who helped sort the maze of wires.
First, the red and black wires were from the cab battery, not the leisure battery. The feed from the leisure battery is a smaller wire size. After a rummage around we found it through another hole in the floor and matching cable sizeand connected to battery isolation switch. So back to battery to check blade fuses again which were OK. Checked the area a at the back of the battery for an additional line fuse and noticed a crimped cable joint was loose under some insulation tape. Took the tape off and the cable just slipped out of the connector. Replaced with terminal block and battery voltage restored to isolator. All OK now. A Laika wiring diagram would have helped but got there in the end, just wished it had been a fuse!!

 

[tonka]

First thanks to everyone who responded to this thread and for the advice offered. Finally thanks to Lance Dunworkin who helped sort the maze of wires.
First, the red and black wires were from the cab battery, not the leisure battery. The feed from the leisure battery is a smaller wire size. After a rummage around we found it through another hole in the floor and matching cable sizeand connected to battery isolation switch. So back to battery to check blade fuses again which were OK. Checked the area a at the back of the battery for an additional line fuse and noticed a crimped cable joint was loose under some insulation tape. Took the tape off and the cable just slipped out of the connector. Replaced with terminal block and battery voltage restored to isolator. All OK now. A Laika wiring diagram would have helped but got there in the end, just wished it had been a fuse!!

Glad your sorted

 

[TheBig1]

only a few things I find frustrating with wiring on vehicles, but top of the list is DiY installs and repairs using accursed scotchblocks, followed closely by screwdown terminal blocks. Guaranteed to promote corrosion at the joints and then intermittent faults with loose connections giving high resistance

For your own sanity, I suggest remaking the joint with good quality crimp terminals crimped with a decent tool and then insulate the joint to prevent further corrosion. Otherwise this fault will return to bite you again later. Usually at a very inconvenient time and place. Converters regularly under specify cable sizes to save costs. But this leads to problems later down the road for the owner as well

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[tonka]

Just one question.

Does this now mean the beer fridge will be ok for our next meet ???

 

[quickweh]

Just one question.

Does this now mean the beer fridge will be ok for our next meet ???

Pauline says it's not a beer fridge, it's a gin and Tonic fridge

 

[daveandsan]

Yes Dave, will post details here later.

Glad you are sorted Mike.

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