Help! When should we register? (1 Viewer)

[Stretto Boy]

Our new motorhome has arrived at the dealer and we are due to collect it on Tuesday 4th April I know which registration number will be allocated to it from the dealers stock of numbers. Having checked at DVLA, I also know that the vehicle is not registered yet. My guess is that it won't be registered until we have paid for it but we are required to pay in cleared funds before the end of March in any event.

There are some fairly radical changes to vehicle excise duty about to come into force, with the new rules affecting vehicles registered on or after 1st April. I am thinking that I may be in the fortunate position of being able to ask the dealer to register it either just before or just after the cut-off date. My conundrum is that I do not know which is best. I remember reading some threads on this a few weeks ago but the detail of the rules escapes me. Can anybody help me please?

Just to add to my confusion, my new motorhome will initially be plated at 3500Kg but as part of the deal will thereafter be up-plated to 3,850 Kg or thereabouts. Even if it is initially registered before 31st March, the up-plating won't happen until after 1st April.

Any help that one of you clever boffins can offer will be most gratefully received.

 

[Minxy]

First of all stop panicking ... registering it from 1st April won't affect the road tax etc so long as the dealer doesn't put an emissions figure when they register the MH (check with them to ensure they don't!).

As for payment, why on earth would you hand over all the money BEFORE your collection date? That is something you should never do under any circumstances ... until you are actually in possession of the MH you could lose all of your money if there's a problem and the dealer goes bust, it may be a slim chance, but it can happen ... importantly though until you see your MH in the flesh you won't be able to check it's the one you ordered, has the bits and bobs you paid for on it, and its acceptable to you with no issues (dints etc). Please do NOT pay for it in full upfront ... no-one should, ever.

Regarding up-plating, there are threads on here about it, this one has some info on (my post #14 gives contact details):

http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum...ating-our-rapido-a-class.130317/#post-1855328

 

[GeriatricWanderer]

...... and do not be pressurised to pay before you've been over it very carefully.
If there are a things that need fixing give the dealer a snagging list and go away. Let them call you back when it's ready and go over the same process.

Too many times there have been buyers, me included, who have paid up front and then struggled to get faults corrected.

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[Stretto Boy]

Thanks for your help both. I don't have any choice about paying before collection. The dealer is Marquis and they say very clearly that I have to make payment in cleared funds at least three working days before completion. I assume this is because they need to register it beforehand and they worry that if I default (which of course I won't) then they will be left with a devalued pre-registered model. As Auto-Sleepers/Marquis have only just been acquired by Trigano they will hopefully have done their financial due diligence and won't have paid good money for something which is about to go down the pan. Which is not in any way to detract from your sensible advice.

 

[Minxy]

Sorry but Marquis should not be insisting on you paying for it up front, a deposit yes, but not the full amount.

I suspect it is more to do with their year end/month end figures than having to have cleared funds. Depending on how much you are paying you could consider paying the balance in cash or doing a bank transfer using your debit card when you go to collect it.

I hear what you are saying but you have to protect yourself and should never trust anyone else to have your interests as their highest priority. In all the times we've bought a new motorhome over the years from dealers (5 of them) we have never been asked to pay upfront in full for it, not once, if we had we would have refused. We've always taken cash or done it by bank transfer but ONLY once we were satisfied the MH was okay.

 

[Riverbankannie]

Going back to your original question about when to register it, the new rules are complex and the amount to pay depends on the Co2 emmisions of your vehicle. The amount you pay if registered after April 1st is going to be higher in the first 5 years but lower in subsequent years, than if you register it before 1st April.
Do you know the emissions figure?

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[138go]

£500 Deposit with a CREDIT Card when we ordered ours and paid balance by Debit Card when we had walked round it and made sure everything was ok on the day we collected it.

 

[Neckender]

I pick our new van up from SMC on the 3rd of April, I put a £1000 deposit from my credit card at the end of February, and paying the balance on the day we pick it up.

John.

 

[DBK]

The vehicle tax changes coming into force on 1 April have not been well explained by DVLC and their website is unclear. But as Riverbankannie says the changes only apply, as far as we know, if there is a CO2 figure on the V5 and it is very unlikely there is although there will probably be a CO figure but not CO2.
When you uprate it will go from PLG to PHG and you will get a rebate.

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[GeriatricWanderer]

Thanks for your help both. I don't have any choice about paying before collection. The dealer is Marquis and they say very clearly that I have to make payment in cleared funds at least three working days before completion. I assume this is because they need to register it beforehand and they worry that if I default (which of course I won't) then they will be left with a devalued pre-registered model. As Auto-Sleepers/Marquis have only just been acquired by Trigano they will hopefully have done their financial due diligence and won't have paid good money for something which is about to go down the pan. Which is not in any way to detract from your sensible advice.

Are you saying that you're committed to pay the full amount at least 3 days before you get to check it over?
What you going to do if there's something wrong or missing that you won't get even the chance to find until they've had total payment in their bank for 3 days?
Sounds like a one sided deal to me.

Good luck.

 

[Minxy]

Going back to your original question about when to register it, the new rules are complex and the amount to pay depends on the Co2 emmisions of your vehicle. The amount you pay if registered after April 1st is going to be higher in the first 5 years but lower in subsequent years, than if you register it before 1st April.
Do you know the emissions figure?

There's another thread on here discussing it all in detail but the upshot is that a MH bought from a UK dealer (ie not a grey import etc) should not have the emissions on the V5C. Whilst the original paperwork produced by the base vehicle manufacturer will likely have it on, once the vehicle is adapted/built on/converted by the MH or camper manufacturer 0there is AFAIK no requirement for the MH manufacturer to put an emissions figure on and, to be honest, I don't know if they could legally do so as they aren't normally tested after conversion so any figures taken off the original base vehicle paperwork wouldn't be accurate anyway due to the effect of any changes made by the converter. The only exceptions to this is for those campers that are sold direct from the manufacturer, ie VW selling their camper van conversion and possibly the smaller/bespoke vehicle converters which may also have the info such as Murvi, IH etc.

So to recap, it the OP is buying a standard coachbuilt MH from a UK dealer it should NOT have the emissions on the paperwork so will be takes as they are now with no 'luxury' vehicle charges.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Just to add to my confusion, my new motorhome will initially be plated at 3500Kg but as part of the deal will thereafter be up-plated to 3,850 Kg or thereabouts. Even if it is initially registered before 31st March, the up-plating won't happen until after 1st April.

Just to add to your confusion there is no sensible reason for the dealer to initially register it at 3500 if they are going to up rate it.

It can just be registered at 3850 right from the off.

It sounds to me like your dealer is messing you around, I think Mel is probably right in that they're more worried about their year end than anything else.

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[Spidey]

I agree it is more to do with their money month/year end figures. When you did the deal did they give you a special price based game on paying it by this date? We have always paid after inspection and it is not common practise to ask for it before seeing the van.

 

[Kingham]

Sorry but Marquis should not be insisting on you paying for it up front, a deposit yes, but not the full amount.

Agreed !!... I paid my £2k deposit to Marquis against a new Auto-Sleeper, back in October at the NEC. I'm checking the van over on Tuesday and will be transferring the balance on the day I collect the van.

 

[suavecarve]

Say "sorry, cant make it before then can i put it back a week please ?"

You ll be able to tell in their voice and response what their prime motive is. Plus its always good to keep them on their toes.

I reckon Dealers round the country must hate motorhomefun (with the exception of a few including @Johns_Cross_Motorhomes ) of course

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[Minxy]

Don't get me started on dealers at the moment ... very unhappy about something that's supposed to have been fixed on mine but hasn't been ...

 

[Diggerdi]

We paid £2000 deposit by credit card when we ordered and the balance by debit card after we had seen it and had handover. At no point were we asked to pay the balance before seeing it. I am surprised at Marquis, them being such a big company. I certainly wouldn't pay before checking it over.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

I am surprised at Marquis, them being such a big company.

I would guess that it's probably just one branch manager who hasn't met his targets acting on his own initiative rather than company policy.

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[cornish boy]

Thanks for your help both. I don't have any choice about paying before collection. The dealer is Marquis and they say very clearly that I have to make payment in cleared funds at least three working days before completion. I assume this is because they need to register it beforehand and they worry that if I default (which of course I won't) then they will be left with a devalued pre-registered model. As Auto-Sleepers/Marquis have only just been acquired by Trigano they will hopefully have done their financial due diligence and won't have paid good money for something which is about to go down the pan. Which is not in any way to detract from your sensible advice.

It is Marquis's standard T&C's as they explained that they will not register the vehicle until it has been paid in full.

We paid cleared funds three days in advance of the handover just in the same way that you have been asked to. I never saw it as a problem as we had previously seen the Motorhome in the flesh and presented Marquis with the snagging list before making the money transfer. Throughout the entire transaction, communications, invoice and money transfer we linked/referenced everything to the actual VIN number and so ensured our payment aligned to the physical vehicle we intended to purchase which gave us the security we wanted.

Wasn't too worried as it is standard practice within the marine world to pay cleared funds before handover, so as long as you link payments to physical asset via VIN (HIN for boats) or registration number, then administrators cannot prevent you taking ownership and additionally there is strong case law on your side where the asset and payments are clearly traceable even if held outside of a client account.

 

[lunarman]

Just to add to my confusion, my new motorhome will initially be plated at 3500Kg but as part of the deal will thereafter be up-plated to 3,850 Kg or thereabouts. Even if it is initially registered before 31st March, the up-plating won't happen until after 1st April.

Personally I would want this done before I hand over any money to them. I suspect that when they have your money this will right at the bottom of there list of priorities and will stay there.
I would have thought that any increase optionin plate would be done by the manufacturure and would be delivered to the dealer as such.
Who will be supplying the new plate and the documentation for DVLA?

 

[Sausage44]

We had to pay for our new MH in full before the vehicle was registered, but all was ok. On our previous MH (used model) we paid on the day of picking it up and there were a few minor problems with it that we didn't know till we had gone away to try it out for a few days.
So whether you pay before or on the day there could be hidden faults that don't come to light untill the van is in use.

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[Minxy]

If Marquis insist on payment in full up front then do as a previous poster has suggested and get the details of the actual vehicle VIN on the receipt so that it is clearly yours, and ONLY once you have actually seen the vehicle in the flesh which means a visit prior to the actual collection date and at the same time you can make full payment.

It has been known for the wrong spec to be ordered by a dealer so you need to make sure the one you are paying for IS the right one and acceptable to you, you can obviously have faults etc rectified under warranty later, but if it's not the right vehicle in the first place there's not a lot you can do about it if you've taken delivery, or at least, not without a battle on your hands. I know of at least one person who had a vehicle supplied on the wrong chassis (light instead of heavy) so you DO need to make sure it's right.

 

[zac]

Me personally i would never pay the balance until i hvae physically seen the vehicle and gone round it and checked everything is ok and working and as it should be, i will be doing the same for ours in a few weeks where i will then pay the 50k balance on the day via debit card (chip / pin). If not ok i will NOT be paying which gives them the motivation to get the issues sorted asap. I have adopted this method for the last 2 motorhomes i have brought. I cannot understand why people will want to part with huge sums of money when they have not even seen what they are getting, our 2nd motorhome had a few issues to sort out even though it was brand new like gel depressions and decals even though it was stated it had been checked. What motivation is there to get things sorted after they have your money, you just then join the queue.

Just my opinion.

 

[Sidney]

payment in cleared funds at least three working days before completion

I think this is really for payment by cheque or a bank transfer from a bank that's not in the Faster Payment scheme.

Sounds like a standard T&Cs on a letter from Marquis and I think I had one too. Call and tell them you will pay balance where you are there by card rather than pay in advance via cheque or BACs.

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[zac]

I think this is really for payment by cheque or a bank transfer from a bank that's not in the Faster Payment scheme.

Sounds like a standard T&Cs on a letter from Marquis and I think I had one too. Call and tell them you will pay balance where you are there by card rather than pay in advance via cheque or BACs.

I think you are correct as i have just read the info from our dealer and says the same, as long as you pay by debit card ours goes through immediately, hence on the day. If it didn't i would defo check it first before paying even though they are over 3 hours away from us.

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Mine was registered and the V5 in my possession about a week before I collected and paid for it.

Dunno what went wrong at the DVLA but they were like lightning. The dealer couldn't believe it, the V5 was with me something like 3 days after he sent the paperwork in. It was a private plate as well.

 

[maxi77]

I would certainly not pay with cleared funds unless at the same time documentation was provided proving I had absolute title to the goods. Once you have proof of title then if they go bust before handover the receiver cannot try to hold you to ransom. The V5 does not give you title but a signed document from the dealer stating they have transfered ownership to you does. Yes blats are often paid for before delivery but it is normal for the bill of sale to be provided at the same time as payment is made.

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[Zigisla]

Nothing really to add to the above replies except like the rest, mine was up plated by the dealer - reminder to self, no refund, but never the less, I couldn't collect it until DVLA had registered it and paperwork received before I collected it. And more importantly paid for it.

 

[Stretto Boy]

Thanks everybody for your input. My original query was about the registration date in view of the impending changes to road tax. A few months ago I signed up to DVLA's digital newsletter system and today received one with the latest news on motorhomes! It looks as if to be certain of avoiding the new regime it needs to be registered by Friday. I have Marquis on the case, so fingers crossed. The other hope is that the emissions are not on the paperwork but it was suggested that it might be because of the up-plating : can't see the connection myself. I have made payment as required : they require it 4 working days if in cleared funds or 10 days if paying by cheque. I have however seen the new MH before paying : only had time for a quick look but everything visible seems OK. As Sausage 44 wrote, it's the things you can't see that are likely to be the problem.

 

[Kingham]

Agreed !!... I paid my £2k deposit to Marquis against a new Auto-Sleeper, back in October at the NEC. I'm checking the van over on Tuesday and will be transferring the balance on the day I collect the van.

Well what a load of rubbish that advice turned out to be !!

I've been in today and a good look over my van, but I was told that I would have to allow 3 days for funds to clear, before driving the van away.
Told them that I would be paying by debit card on handover day, the same as I did back in 2012 and wouldn't need 3 days to clear.
Apparently head office have issued a new directive since my last purchase and a debit card transfer has to have the 3 days.

My teddy landed on the other side of the showroom at this point and there was an awful splatter mark on the showroom window, where my dummy struck it. Anyway, in between the sobs, I could hear my sales guy saying he would go and speak with management.

The best they came up with was on a 'fast' bank transfer, where they would let me collect the following day. If I insisted on paying by debit card, the 3 day rule would come back in to play.

Apparently this directive came about after an OCG (*edit Organised Crime Group) managed to withdraw a debit card payment after driving away with a high value motorhome. I'm not sure if that could be done, but head office won't move on the ruling.

I'm armed with my registration number and a photo of my VIN plate, so will just have to trust the system.

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