Help. Van won't start. totally dead (1 Viewer)

[hogger]

Hi Campers

Not been on for months as we've managed a weekend in van since we got it last September. I went over today and it's totally dead. No lights, alarm, central locking...nothing.
I was going over each month to pay the storage rent and starting it up and running for a while, I brought it home and hooked it up overnight before Christmas too.
I realise it's not ideal to leave the van all that time without a good run. Van's a hymer 568. fiat ducato. I'm not sure where the cab battery is on my van but I found a battery under a panel in cab floor so hooked up a battery booster pack. Nothing.
I think I'm going to put in a new one, any ideas on brand/cost ?
I'm going to have to call Green Flag tomorrow to try and get it going and take it to a local repair place.

any advice welcome and thanks in advance

 

[Sapper520]

Even the DVLA come up with mine being Fiat Ducato

Mine comes up as a Capron at DVLA......know what that is?

Sunlight Cliff 600 based on.......you’ve guessed.....a Fiat Ducato.

My registration number is not recognised on ANY of the parts websites, including Halfords. It doesn’t even come up on Eurotunnel.

 

[hogger]

I would think that the switch just turns off the power from you habitation battery to all the items you use whilst “camping”, and this is standard on most motorhomes.

So use of this switch won’t change the situation you have with starting the van, and the starter battery is still probably knackered. I personally would replace with new one, and scrap the old so you know what state it’s in.

Yes I took the old one over to van today and fitted it after a 24 hour charge. Got a light in cab and the remote locking working but that was it. Nothing on the dash board apart from an initial light up showing mileage etc and the fiat logo when turning the key on. The battery must have taken a bit of a charge as I had nothing at all yesterday
I flicked the switch back on at the Hab battery but got nothing. No lights inside, no electric steps etc so looks like both batteries flat.
I'm glad the cost of new ones is not so bad so I'll get another but check both old ones with the multimeter when it comes to confirm

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[hogger]

Because ALL engines suffer most from the initial start up from cold
cold oil sluggish to circulate big drag on battery in the winter
and most horribly if the engine is not run for half to a full hour when idling from cold
the condensation in the oil, the exhaust system, castings does not fully evaporate.
and on switching off the motor, just turns into water, inside all the above mentioned
hence why commercial travellers car engines will last mega miles,
because they are at full temperature for hours of driving each day,
whereas "Mrs local's" will only travel 11/2 miles to the local shop every other day
and the mechanicals never get up to temp and the engine oil emulsifies into mayonnaise crud,
and the exhaust rots from the inside out, and needs changing every 18 months to 2 years.
All vehicles should be started and then driven away DO NOT start up and idle for short periods
sounds as though what you need is to fit an adequate solar panel to keep things topped up
and as a emergency power pack a TrekPow will fit into your glove box, and will fire up a dead
flat battery and start up a 3 litre diesel engine, a real life saver if wild camping and too much TV
has run the batteries down,
Hope this helps your understanding
Good luck

Yes thanks for your help it does explain a lot. I'll be booking the van in for a solar panel. I have a Noco boost pack. Can't remember the model but it was £100. I got it for the bike. The problem with it is the leads don't reach enough to get a good hold on the jump points under the bonnet. It's supposed to be able to start up to 2.3lt engines. A good charger is the next purchase.

 

[hogger]

batteries from suppliers normally will have info telling you to trickle charge the new battery until fully charged there is no way of knowing how long the battery has been standing
UNLESS it was filled with acid by the supplier prior to you collecting it
than stand for a few hours and it will automatically charge itself
hope this helps

Yes I plan to fully charge it before fitting. Cheers

 

[hogger]

Are you sure it's the battery and not a jammed starter motor? I had same problem with my moho last month. Sorted by tapping starter with hammer whilst wife turned over the ignition.

No I doubt it. all was fine last time I ran it. I'm getting next to no power on dash or anywhere else

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[hogger]

After fitting a new battery when ours died in the last lockdown because of a faulty step, we did two 40 mile round-trips and on the third, the airbag light came on. It might not be connected, but apparently is known to happen - I think someone has already mentioned airbag ECUs. With ours, it's not just a case of resetting, but a whole new unit.
When you have your new battery fitted and all is working, take a few shorter trips before you set off on a long one!

Thanks for your advice. I hope not to have the same problems when new battery is fitted. I have heard of these problems though

 

[Clive Beeza]

Yes thanks for your help it does explain a lot. I'll be booking the van in for a solar panel. I have a Noco boost pack. Can't remember the model but it was £100. I got it for the bike. The problem with it is the leads don't reach enough to get a good hold on the jump points under the bonnet. It's supposed to be able to start up to 2.3lt engines. A good charger is the next purchase.

Just in case you ( and others ) may not be aware
the jump pack + (red) connector must be clipped on to the under bonnet + (Positive red ) attachment point specified
BUT the - (Black) connecter can be clipped on to any good metal connection, that is convenient near to the positive connection provided it is clean metal, for a good earth (black lead) connection, IT IS NOT essential to fit this negative lead to the hand book specified terminal,
and hence lots of boost packs are nowadays supplies as you have experienced with relatively short cables,
as only one The positive red cable HAS to be clipped onto the specified terminal, the other can be onto
any close by clean metal and the jobs a "good un"
this may not be obvious to everyone,
hope will help explain why these new boosters have such short cables

 

[Landy Andy]

Another bit of advice that I would give to anyone with a modern vehicle, is not to mess about with batteries and the power system. There are so many ecu’s, ecm’s and loads of other delicate electronics connected to these vehicles it’s very easy to damage them. The Fiat Ducato is well know to fry the ecu that controls the airbag, and seat belt systems if trying to start with poorly battery, or even rushing the starting procedure.

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[Stealaway]

Lucky you,,mine didnt

250 watts panels though

 

[hogger]

Apart from the problem of getting a mains supply, the other problem is actually connecting the battery charger. If you're lucky, it's just a matter of opening the bonnet or locker and clipping the croc clips on the terminals.

Sometimes the batteries are less accessible - bike battery in a compartment under the seat, leisure battery in the space under the driver's seat, etc. Some battery chargers have a solution for this, including CTEK and Victron.

The charger output wire has a 2-pin connector which they seem to call a Comfort Connector. You can get various wires and attachments that plug into this connector. The charger comes with standard insulated croc clips, and a short lead with eyelet connections that you can fit on the battery terminals, or at least some of them.

In addition you can buy a lead with a cigaretter-lighter plug, so you can plug into a car lighter socket to charge the battery (assuming it's live when the key is removed). And an extension lead if you need it.

I have an eyelet lead permanently attached to both our scooters, and the car battery which is under the boot floor. I also have one attached to the spare battery I keep in the garage. Setting up the charger is an easy 2-minute job.

They sell a panel-mounting socket that has three LEDs to show the battery level, and also have LEDs in some of the cable sockets if you want.

The CTEK MXS5.0 is the biggest charger that also has a motorcycle mode, which is why I have one. Two, actually. I leave one in the car while we are away.

CTEK MXS 5.0 12V Charger and Conditioner MULTI XS 5.0 (56-975) MXS5

CTEK MXS 5.0 12V Charger and Conditioner MULTI XS 5.0 (56-975) The MXS 5.0 is a charger that offers state of the art technology that was previously only found in CTEK's professional product range. The charger can solve a broad range of battery-related problems and is the perfect charger for...

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View attachment 473213

Many thanks for the info. I've looked at a review for this model, Didn't finish watching it as I got distracted by something. I have an optimate for the bike but had it for many years and don't quite know what the lights are telling me and can't get a manual online for it now so the CTEK could come in useful for both bike and moho, and car of course.
Over the last couple of days I've found out I have jump points under the bonnet in the van; Fiat Ducato base. I can get access to the van 24hrs a day so will start bringing the van home every two weeks or so to put it on hook up and give it a run at same time.

 

[hogger]

If you're unable to get into the storage facility like I am, then there's nothing you can do about charging them, I haven't seen my MH since the end of October and just hope it's still OK hab wise but fully expect the battery to be flat as a pancake

Luckily I can get access 24/7 but with lockdown I didn't want to take the van out

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[hogger]

If you cant charge them throughout the winter you could be buying new batteries every year.
You need to invest in a solar panel and a dual battery solar controller, that would hopefully keep every thing ticking over all winter.

Something like this

<Broken link removed>

Yep will be booking it in. Guy said it will be well into April

 

[hogger]

Just in case you ( and others ) may not be aware
the jump pack + (red) connector must be clipped on to the under bonnet + (Positive red ) attachment point specified
BUT the - (Black) connecter can be clipped on to any good metal connection, that is convenient near to the positive connection provided it is clean metal, for a good earth (black lead) connection, IT IS NOT essential to fit this negative lead to the hand book specified terminal,
and hence lots of boost packs are nowadays supplies as you have experienced with relatively short cables,
as only one The positive red cable HAS to be clipped onto the specified terminal, the other can be onto
any close by clean metal and the jobs a "good un"
this may not be obvious to everyone,
hope will help explain why these new boosters have such short cables

Great advice cheers, forgot about the negative connection thing.

 

[hogger]

Another bit of advice that I would give to anyone with a modern vehicle, is not to mess about with batteries and the power system. There are so many ecu’s, ecm’s and loads of other delicate electronics connected to these vehicles it’s very easy to damage them. The Fiat Ducato is well know to fry the ecu that controls the airbag, and seat belt systems if trying to start with poorly battery, or even rushing the starting procedure.

Hope I'll be ok then but I luckily I haven't tried starting it as it's completely flat and hooking up the battery boost made no difference today. Hopefully I didn't do any damage connecting the boost pack directly to the batteries before learning about the points under the bonnet. I've not had the engine turn over at all

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[Wabs]

Must be REALLY dead

 

[hogger]

Must be REALLY dead

Yep looks like it

 

[hogger]

I just had a thought. The battery which was in the van is a fiamm. I'm wondering (and hoping) I got the right battery for my van which is an automatic?

EA1000 Exide Premium Car Battery 017TE	1	£77.99
P&P	£7.97
TOTAL	£85.96

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[Clive Beeza]

Many thanks for the info. I've looked at a review for this model, Didn't finish watching it as I got distracted by something. I have an optimate for the bike but had it for many years and don't quite know what the lights are telling me and can't get a manual online for it now so the CTEK could come in useful for both bike and moho, and car of course.
Over the last couple of days I've found out I have jump points under the bonnet in the van; Fiat Ducato base. I can get access to the van 24hrs a day so will start bringing the van home every two weeks or so to put it on hook up and give it a run at same time.

Am also a biker and use an optimate,
the indicator lights are from bottom,
DESULPHATE----CHARGE---- WEAK & GOOD

But for the M Home and Car there's a far better robust unit,
Called the "AccuMate pro" has lights indicating BULK charge---- ABSORB charge----&----MAINTAIN charge
this bit of kit is temperature and charge regulated, and on bulk charge has a small cooling fan,
as with the bike Optimate, simply connect and forget, cannot overcharge
and will switch automatically on to the absorb setting,
when the battery voltage has dropped to near 12.5 ? volts.
have used both for many years, and really trouble free
both are very reliable battery maintenance chargers
(not the cheapest but up with the best available)

 

[Flook]

Clive, I have similar to yourself. I have a basic Optimate with is connected to my BMW bike, its bigger brother is connected to the MoHo. Extended leads can be purchased through the likes of Amazon or decent bike spares like Busters.

I have recently put a post on here about my Leisure batt. It is totally dead. The reason is, the charger for it failed and I have now replaced that with a Victron Blue 20a three way charger. It cost me a bit more than to replace the original charger, but that was replaced under warranty six years back and do not fancy changing a known failing product. With the Victron I will be able to also connect to the main batt, so both are kept charged while on hook up. Then I will be able to remove the Optimate permanently. The Victron has blue tooth tech and with an app you can see it working etc. This is a plus in my book and I have to thank Paul (Two on tour) for that.

 

[autorouter]

I just had a thought. The battery which was in the van is a fiamm. I'm wondering (and hoping) I got the right battery for my van which is an automatic?

For starter batteries, the important figure is the Cold Cranking Amps (CCA), rather than the Ah capacity. As long as the CCA of your new battery is equal or more than the old battery then it's OK. If it's an Exide Premium I'd be very surprised if it was not at least equal.

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[hogger]

Am also a biker and use an optimate,
the indicator lights are from bottom,
DESULPHATE----CHARGE---- WEAK & GOOD

But for the M Home and Car there's a far better robust unit,
Called the "AccuMate pro" has lights indicating BULK charge---- ABSORB charge----&----MAINTAIN charge
this bit of kit is temperature and charge regulated, and on bulk charge has a small cooling fan,
as with the bike Optimate, simply connect and forget, cannot overcharge
and will switch automatically on to the absorb setting,
when the battery voltage has dropped to near 12.5 ? volts.
have used both for many years, and really trouble free
both are very reliable battery maintenance chargers
(not the cheapest but up with the best available)

gone and bought the ctek so that'll have to do for now. I see it has a mode for bike and car only tho.. no mention of bigger batteries

 

[hogger]

thanks for your help folks. Multi meter and charger arrived today. I must admit I'm anxious to fit the new battery when it comes and get the van running again. I'll then deal with the leisure battery then solar, then tyres

 

[Wabs]

The Ctek is fine for that,, you won’t have to worry,

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[autorouter]

gone and bought the ctek so that'll have to do for now. I see it has a mode for bike and car only tho.. no mention of bigger batteries

It will charge bigger batteries, but only at its maximum of 5A. It will get there eventually, but it might take a few hours. The main problem is with smaller batteries. The 5A mode should not be used for batteries less than 5 x 5 =25Ah. That's why it has the low-current motorcycle mode, good for smaller batteries.

 

[hogger]

It will charge bigger batteries, but only at its maximum of 5A. It will get there eventually, but it might take a few hours. The main problem is with smaller batteries. The 5A mode should not be used for batteries less than 5 x 5 =25Ah. That's why it has the low-current motorcycle mode, good for smaller batteries.

Thanks for the info. new battery is coming today so will be interesting to see what charge it has and I'll put the CTek on it as soon as it arrives if it needs to be brought up to full

 

[IRHP]

Thanks I had looked on Halfords site but when I put my reg in it comes up as invalid. Which is the case with a few sites. I suspect it must be the reg belonging to a motorhome rather than commercial or a car. I can give them a call

Get the 3 digit code off your battery and find the same or Halfords equivalent.

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[hogger]

Get the 3 digit code off your battery and find the same or Halfords equivalent.

bought a Exide as recommended on here, thanks

 

[Ginster]

If you cant charge them throughout the winter you could be buying new batteries every year.
You need to invest in a solar panel and a dual battery solar controller, that would hopefully keep every thing ticking over all winter.

Something like this

<Broken link removed>

Stealaway, I have a 100w solar panel on the roof and a dual battery solar controller, am expecting the worst but hoping for the best

 

[mikeandmary]

Going back to dead or dying batteries in vehicles that are in long term storage compounds, doesn’t it make more sense to take them home and keep charged. I appreciate you may want to keep it alarmed, but nobody is going to drive the vehicle away easily without a starter battery.

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[Ginster]

Going back to dead or dying batteries in vehicles that are in long term storage compounds, doesn’t it make more sense to take them home and keep charged. I appreciate you may want to keep it alarmed, but nobody is going to drive the vehicle away easily without a starter battery.

Sadly lockdown started just after I took it back to storage and before I was able go into storage again