Help! - To buy or not to buy? (1 Viewer)

[chenderson1965]

Hi all.

So I’ve now been for the test drive In a 2012 N+B Arto 79R manual 3.0l. It’s only done 20k miles, HPI is clear and service history all looks good with only minor issues all of which seem to have been dealt with. It looks like it’s had new tyres relatively recently. It has a few extras including satellite TV, hydraulic levelling, habitation air con and a cat 1 alarm. We’ve agreed a price of £56,500 with the dealer - which seems from my research to be reasonable.

I noticed a couple of issues today that I’d read about elsewhere on here.

1) We didn’t get much of a chance for reversing, but when he was reversing it back into place there was definitely some juddering.

2) The front side windows both had a bit of condensation. On a warmish dry day the drivers side looked a bit smoky (no visible droplets but definitely not completely clear). I couldn’t see anything on the passengers side but the salesman thought the seal might be going there too - and made it clear that they didn’t have enough margin in the price we have agreed to put them right.

So my questions are, how serious are the problems, how much will they cost to put right and what is likely to happen if they aren’t attended to?

I’ve paid a deposit (which we agreed would be returnable if issues were found), and have an inspection booked for next week. There’s no point wasting money on an inspection though if I should be walking away...

Any help any advice greatly appreciated.

 

[Ingwe]

If you are certain the clutch is OK, negotiate £5k off the price to cover the windows. Never believe dealer BS that they have no margin, UK dealers normally work on high margins.

Whilst not an expert, I'd go with Lenny HB's views.

 

[Spriddler]

Haha I laughed out loud at this - You are spending £56K and think there is no margin in the sale price?

Clearly you are unaware that m/h dealers are charities, run by socially sympathetic philanthropists who invest (borrow) tens of thousands of capital for stock to be held, often for many months, purely with no other objective than the noble mission to help the public enjoy themselves.

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[Hymer 1961]

Thanks. A few people have made comments to this effect – some implying more directive and others that dinners are not, perhaps to be entirely trusted!

I’ve done my research on this dealer who is large and reputable. The vast majority of reviews I can find for them are positive. I took his warning about not being able to do anything on the price for remedying the windows to be both open (I would rather he said that now than allowed me to spend money on the inspection and told me later) - and also a savvy bit of negotiating/positioning to try to dissuade me from arguing later for an adjustment to the price!

In short, I do believe they are a reputable and trustworthy dealer and I do think the salesman I am dealing with is straight. They do, of course, have commercial interests to protect - as do I - when it comes to agreeing a price and the costs of remedial work, so my trust has to be tempered by some negotiating pragmatism!

So glad to hear you have had a second drive and felt reassured this is the motorhome for you. It sounds like the window problem is not too urgent and therefore giving you time to research the best and most economical repair going forward. Good luck for all your future motor-homing adventures.

 

[jongood]

Hi all.

So I’ve now been for the test drive In a 2012 N+B Arto 79R manual 3.0l. It’s only done 20k miles, HPI is clear and service history all looks good with only minor issues all of which seem to have been dealt with. It looks like it’s had new tyres relatively recently. It has a few extras including satellite TV, hydraulic levelling, habitation air con and a cat 1 alarm. We’ve agreed a price of £56,500 with the dealer - which seems from my research to be reasonable.

I noticed a couple of issues today that I’d read about elsewhere on here.

1) We didn’t get much of a chance for reversing, but when he was reversing it back into place there was definitely some juddering.

2) The front side windows both had a bit of condensation. On a warmish dry day the drivers side looked a bit smoky (no visible droplets but definitely not completely clear). I couldn’t see anything on the passengers side but the salesman thought the seal might be going there too - and made it clear that they didn’t have enough margin in the price we have agreed to put them right.

So my questions are, how serious are the problems, how much will they cost to put right and what is likely to happen if they aren’t attended to?

I’ve paid a deposit (which we agreed would be returnable if issues were found), and have an inspection booked for next week. There’s no point wasting money on an inspection though if I should be walking away...

Any help any advice greatly appreciated.

I'm on my second Arto a 2010 74r owned it for 7 years x 70k miles. IMO many of the posts on this thread are inaccurate ( sorry guys) but the juddering was much less on the 3.0 litre and virtually gone by 2009. Funflairs answer about the windows is the correct one, The windows are about £2000 a side to get them done over here, Half that at that factory in Polch if you catch them on a good day, but I'm intending to get mine cleaned and resealed over here, I know a few people who have successfully done it for a couple of hundred pounds.

Hope that helps

Jon

 

[chenderson1965]

I'm on my second Arto a 2010 74r owned it for 7 years x 70k miles. IMO many of the posts on this thread are inaccurate ( sorry guys) but the juddering was much less on the 3.0 litre and virtually gone by 2009. Funflairs answer about the windows is the correct one, The windows are about £2000 a side to get them done over here, Half that at that factory in Polch if you catch them on a good day, but I'm intending to get mine cleaned and resealed over here, I know a few people who have successfully done it for a couple of hundred pounds.

Hope that helps

Jon

Thanks Jon. That’s really really helpful. That was the conclusion I came to as well on both issues.

On the windows, I’ve spent much of today trying to find somebody with the necessary skills to be able to remove the windows, take them apart, reseal them, reassemble them and reinstall them in the vehicle. So far I have drawn a blank. Could you possibly let me know the names of one or two of the guys you know who might be able to do the repair so I can make contact with them?

Thanks in advance.

Chris

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[Spriddler]

Thanks. If I can get them replaced for that little money then certainly I’d do that. Can you let me have the name of the company in Banbury you used and I’ll give them a call?

I've spent hours searching 't'internet for a replacement polyplastic window 1650mm x 625mm and spoken to a dozen or more 'stockists' plus another dozen caravan and m/home breakers without any luck. I have no choice but to have one made by EECO at Halifax (£465) as no stock ones are made any more (1998 m/h)
I've contacted CN Glass at Banbury who only supply glass windows according to this reply rec'd this p.m.:

trevor@cnglass.co.uk	14:33 (2 hours ago)
to me

Good Afternoon,
We only replace double glazed glass windows, your plastic version I think if you look in MMM magazine or contact Leary motorhomes in Ireland .
Happy Motorhoming.

Kind regards
Trevor
Trevor Mouat MD
C N Glass Ltd
trevor@cnglass.co.uk
Tel: 01295 263364 FAX: 01295 263570

 

[Spriddler]

On the windows, I’ve spent much of today trying to find somebody with the necessary skills to be able to remove the windows, take them apart, reseal them, reassemble them and reinstall them in the vehicle. So far I have drawn a blank.

It would be helpful if you indicated in your Profile where you are.
I have a quote from Advanced Glass Products (very helpful folk) to supply me with a replacement for my broken window and frame. They have a firm nearby who will fit it while I wait ("for about £40").
Maybe yours aren't polyplastic but AGP may be worth a call.
AGP are at Droitwich
01299 851525

 

[stevewagner]

You could get a nice Carthago for that money

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[jongood]

I've spent hours searching 't'internet for a replacement polyplastic window 1650mm x 625mm and spoken to a dozen or more 'stockists' plus another dozen caravan and m/home breakers without any luck. I have no choice but to have one made by EECO at Halifax (£465) as no stock ones are made any more (1998 m/h)
I've contacted CN Glass at Banbury who only supply glass windows according to this reply rec'd this p.m.:

trevor@cnglass.co.uk	14:33 (2 hours ago)
to me

Good Afternoon,
We only replace double glazed glass windows, your plastic version I think if you look in MMM magazine or contact Leary motorhomes in Ireland .
Happy Motorhoming.

Kind regards
Trevor
Trevor Mouat MD
C N Glass Ltd
trevor@cnglass.co.uk
Tel: 01295 263364 FAX: 01295 263570

We re talking about glass windows here, they re the double glazed sliding side windows as fitted to many A class Mhs.

 

[HelenMalc2019]

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[Lenny HB]

It would be helpful if you indicated in your Profile where you are.
I have a quote from Advanced Glass Products (very helpful folk) to supply me with a replacement for my broken window and frame. They have a firm nearby who will fit it while I wait ("for about £40").
Maybe yours aren't polyplastic but AGP may be worth a call.
AGP are at Droitwich
01299 851525

I think you are getting confused the front side windows in an N&B are double glazed glass.

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[gus-lopez]

You also have to bear in mind that when the dealer took in the MH they would have done the "sharp ntake of breath" over the "5k to repair" windows & knocked the price right down that they were prepared to pay for it.
Also regardless of hwo cheap you might be able to repair them by diy at the end of the day it is a near 5k job so would you pay 62k for the vehicle?

 

[GPW]

After the inspection you can simply work out how much it's worth to you, put the offer on the table and carry on looking - i.e. allow 5k for the windows if you like.

That allows you to keep looking, the seller knows where they stand and everyone's happy, whether or not you end up buying it.

MH sales are not booming at the moment and overstocking is a problem - or so I've read - so you have leverage, and there's always a better one floating about.

 

[chenderson1965]

After the inspection you can simply work out how much it's worth to you, put the offer on the table and carry on looking - i.e. allow 5k for the windows if you like.

That allows you to keep looking, the seller knows where they stand and everyone's happy, whether or not you end up buying it.

MH sales are not booming at the moment and overstocking is a problem - or so I've read - so you have leverage, and there's always a better one floating about.

Yes. Thanks. And thanks to everyone else for the negotiation tips.

They will definitely have beaten the previous owners down with the window issue (plus others I dare say)!

There’s clearly a punchy negotiation to be had once the inspection is done and I know if there are any other issues. I don’t know where we’ll end up on price, but at that point I’ll need to decide how I feel about it’s price vs the market and how much we want it.

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[GPW]

Also I'd get the price you would be happy to pay, add it to the repair bill and add on £1k for the hassle, then take that sum and see what else is on the market - both new and used - as competition.

This has two advantages:
A) You'll be less desparate for this one thus better able to negotiate (less emotion)
B) You may find something better suited
C) You de-risk the chances of the 'wish I'd known about those' regret down the line.

Now is your chance to look, after you'll actually have to use it LOL

 

[Crazylegs]

Every assumes a price negotiation is achievable, but sometimes circumstances do not allow it. My Brother recently went in search of a £150K a Cathargo liner for two, having found one despite playing hardball and walking away he couldn’t get a penny off the price on the screen. The reason he couldn’t get a discount was simply that the dealer can sell every one he is able to get from the factory. They wouldn’t even throw in an awning, he still purchased it. You will no doubt do your research and make your decision, good luck whatever you do.