Help me to understand my weights please. (1 Viewer)

[Bognor Saint]

I have an Autotrail Tracker EKS (2013).
The handbook states that the Max Gross weight is 3500kg. The Mass in running order is stated as 3215kg and "includes a 75kg allowance for the driver and 90%full fuel tank, gas bottles and water tank".
Does this mean that I can add a further 285kg?
Thanks.

 

[MC 55 FUN]

Theoretically - Yes.

 

[suavecarve]

It could be worst than that.
Have you got an extra battery, awning, solar panel or anything else that has been added to the basic van.
I think it only includes one gas tank and 25% water but someone will come along to clarify that.
Lets say you have none of the above and you have 285 kgs to play with and you only weigh 75kgs.
Just checked and your awning is part of the vehicle and not an add on and you have a microwave. According to practical microwave review you only have 240 kgs to play with http://www.practicalmotorhome.com/reviews/motorhome/41255-auto-trail-tracker-rs

Are you thinking of taking a passenger or 2 or 3 ?
Taking any clothes, food, cutlery, pots pans, bikes, maps, computers, books, tools, wine (You have to carry wine) extra water,

To give you some idea, the father in law has a 2 berth and a payload of nearly 800 kgs. He is getting ready to go next week and is not fully loaded yet. he borrowed my scales (he had to pay as he is not a funster !) and he is left with 100kgs by the time he is ready to go off for 6 months. No pushbikes or motorbike and nothing excessive like microwave or halogen cooker or heavy chairs and the mother in law is not as heavy as i make out !

My suggestion is, before you go away, load her up with with what you reckon you ll take. Make a note in your phone that you are going directly to a weighbridge. Go and weigh it (or borrow some scales) then you will know you are highly likely to have to uprate. Hopefully you have the C1 on your licence and then it really is relatively hassle free.

Sorry to be the bearer of news that you might not have wanted to read.

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[TheBig1]

in theory yes but don't take it for granted. any added extras or accessories eat into the manufacturers stated payload. the only way to be sure is use a weighbridge. i am pretty certain there is or was one on the road to chichester

 

[suavecarve]

I ve just checked your funster age and you are likely to have C1 on your licence, for the next 8 years and then a medical keeps it for another 3. (again if i am slightly wrong with the latter part somebody will correct me) If you passed your driving test pre 97 you have it.
Uprating is dead simple and cost 150 nicker 20 minutes and takes a week, didnt effect/affect (always get them confused) my insurance but saves me 70 quid a year in tax.
You will be in profit by May 2019 should you uprate.
@TheBig1 The awning on this one is actually (imho) built into the van and should be part of MIRO. The microwave comes as standard and "should" come into MIRO but youre right and the micro could be taking the payload down and there may be other things as well following. Who knows the weight without weighing it !

Just for info, one funster recently didnt buy a new van as he was left with 40kgs payload instead of the quoted 400 or figures very close to that.

 

[Mickey1]

From experience, weigh it.

Mickey.

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[Lenny HB]

To give you some idea, the father in law has a 2 berth and a payload of nearly 800 kgs. He is getting ready to go next week and is not fully loaded yet. he borrowed my scales (he had to pay as he is not a funster !) and he is left with 100kgs by the time he is ready to go off for 6 months. No pushbikes or motorbike and nothing excessive like microwave or halogen cooker or heavy chairs and the mother in law is not as heavy as i make out !.

We reckon you need at least 600-700kg payload for two people anything less and life becomes a struggle in the van. Our van's payload was 580kg down to 413kg with factory fitted extras. We gave up trying to run at 3500kg and uprated, I'm only 74kg and the boss 40kg.

 

[Peter & Elaine]

My advice to anyone would be fill up with fuel water all your everyday items for cooking cleaning pots pans chair table bikes everything you THINK you need plus enough food clothes for a long weekend wine beer etc
Driver and passenger
Then on to a weigh bridge local councils or trading standards normal have them

Most people will get a very unpleasant surprise
We did ours is updated to 3.85 ton and I was still 100kg overloaded

 

[Lenny HB]

in theory yes but don't take it for granted. any added extras or accessories eat into the manufacturers stated payload. the only way to be sure is use a weighbridge. i am pretty certain there is or was one on the road to chichester

I think the quarry on the Chichester bypass has one, we use the dynamic one on the A27 at Lancing just north of Shoreham Airport, convenient for us only a couple of miles from home & free.

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[magicsurfbus]

The 'full gas bottle' calculation might only be for a small Calor Lite (weighing around 10.5 Kgs), so check the smallprint in the brochure. That was the case with ours. A full large refillable cylinder will be twice that or more, especially with stainless steel piping.

1 litre of liquid = 1kilo of weight, so driving with an empty water tank will help you reclaim some payload, I'm guessing 90 - 100?

Bear in mind a full loo cartridge with a flush tank could easily top 20 Kgs.

This is a live issue for us as we fill a new vehicle that has a stated payload of 395 Kgs - whilst we think the two of us (plus bikes) could just about manage with a bit of tweaking, we won't know until we weigh it. We've opted to have it up-plated to 3850 Kgs in case we want to take extra family members with us and I sent the form off a couple of days ago.

Problem is we want to go abroad soon and the new documentation may not arrive in time, so our first foreign trip could involve some weight compromises, or cancellation until the new V5 turns up.

 

[suavecarve]

We reckon you need at least 600-700kg payload for two people anything less and life becomes a struggle in the van. Our van's payload was 580kg down to 413kg with factory fitted extras. We gave up trying to run at 3500kg and uprated, I'm only 74kg and the boss 40kg.

Having only just become truely aware of the weight problem (like many others) recently, I would go so far as to say to is nigh on impossible to go touring in a 4 berth van with 4 people in it and the relevant stuff inside the van under 3500 kgs

 

[hilldweller]

Does this mean that I can add a further 285kg?
Thanks.

Yes in theory. But you need to get it weighted to find out the hard way how much the maker has lied and how much has been added.

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[Bognor Saint]

It could be worst than that.
Have you got an extra battery, awning, solar panel or anything else that has been added to the basic van.
I think it only includes one gas tank and 25% water but someone will come along to clarify that.
Lets say you have none of the above and you have 285 kgs to play with and you only weigh 75kgs.
Just checked and your awning is part of the vehicle and not an add on and you have a microwave. According to practical microwave review you only have 240 kgs to play with http://www.practicalmotorhome.com/reviews/motorhome/41255-auto-trail-tracker-rs

Are you thinking of taking a passenger or 2 or 3 ?
Taking any clothes, food, cutlery, pots pans, bikes, maps, computers, books, tools, wine (You have to carry wine) extra water,

To give you some idea, the father in law has a 2 berth and a payload of nearly 800 kgs. He is getting ready to go next week and is not fully loaded yet. he borrowed my scales (he had to pay as he is not a funster !) and he is left with 100kgs by the time he is ready to go off for 6 months. No pushbikes or motorbike and nothing excessive like microwave or halogen cooker or heavy chairs and the mother in law is not as heavy as i make out !

My suggestion is, before you go away, load her up with with what you reckon you ll take. Make a note in your phone that you are going directly to a weighbridge. Go and weigh it (or borrow some scales) then you will know you are highly likely to have to uprate. Hopefully you have the C1 on your licence and then it really is relatively hassle free.

Sorry to be the bearer of news that you might not have wanted to read.

I do have C1
No solar panels.
No extra battery
There is an awning fitted but it seems integral.
I do have a tow bar and to that I will be adding a bike rack.
No other heavy items and it will just be the 2 of us. But it all adds up.
@TheBig1. you are right, I can go to the weighbridge in Chichester.

What is the process for uprating?

 

[suavecarve]

The 'full gas bottle' calculation might only be for a small Calor Lite (weighing around 10.5 Kgs), so check the smallprint in the brochure. That was the case with ours. A full large refillable cylinder will be twice that or more, especially with stainless steel piping.

1 litre of liquid = 1kilo of weight, so driving with an empty water tank will help you reclaim some payload, I'm guessing 90 - 100?

Bear in mind a full loo cartridge with a flush tank could easily top 20 Kgs.

This is a live issue for us as we fill a new vehicle that has a stated payload of 395 Kgs - whilst we think the two of us (plus bikes) could just about manage with a bit of tweaking, we won't know until we weigh it. We've opted to have it up-plated to 3850 Kgs in case we want to take extra family members with us and I sent the form off a couple of days ago.

Problem is we want to go abroad soon and the new documentation may not arrive in time, so our first foreign trip could involve some weight compromises, or cancellation until the new V5 turns up.

@magicsurfbus my understanding is that when you have sent your V5 off in the post (with the proof) then you are legally uprated. If you are going through John Ruffles it took a week from enquiry to having it in the post towards Swansea.
You also get a sticker to put on your vehicle (which presumably is a legal document) which states you uprated
You then have the qualified engineer stating it is capable only you dont have the V5 to prove it.
My understanding is that this would be the same process as when you pass your driving test. You have to send it off and are not in possession of your physical licence but have passed the test.
Open to other interpretations though as i am not positive but it makes sense to me.
I have taken photos of the certificate and my V5 as i am off in April as well and not sure the V5 will be back in time

 

[suavecarve]

I do have C1
No solar panels.
No extra battery
There is an awning fitted but it seems integral.
I do have a tow bar and to that I will be adding a bike rack.
No other heavy items and it will just be the 2 of us. But it all adds up.
@TheBig1. you are right, I can go to the weighbridge in Chichester.

What is the process for uprating?

truckcon@outlook.com is the one i used (john Ruffles)
In the interests of fairness there are other more expensive ones
Take a photo of page 2 of your V5 and your vin plate.
Send them with a covering note via email
Wait for him to reply with the cost.
Pay him via bank transfer
send certificate (when it arrives in the post) with V5 to DVLA
Place sticker stating new weights next to VIN
Receive new V5 from Swansea
Contact insurance to say you have uprated
Relax and breathe out as you will be legal.

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[Lenny HB]

I do have C1
No solar panels.
No extra battery
There is an awning fitted but it seems integral.
I do have a tow bar and to that I will be adding a bike rack.
No other heavy items and it will just be the 2 of us. But it all adds up.
@TheBig1. you are right, I can go to the weighbridge in Chichester.

What is the process for uprating?

With a tow bar fitted you need to be aware of your rear axle loading, tow bar probably weighs between 50-75kg and it is a long way behind the rear axle. You will probably have to uprate the rear axle loading as well. This would mean fitting wider tyres with higher load index and depending on the chassis may need to fit air suspension.

When we uprated ours we only gained 150kg of the 350kg due to rear axle loading ours has the Al-Ko AMC light chassis which is limited to 2000kg and would have cost about £2300 for tyres and air suspension, air is expensive on Al-Ko's.

 

[Minxy]

Problem is we want to go abroad soon and the new documentation may not arrive in time, so our first foreign trip could involve some weight compromises, or cancellation until the new V5 turns up.

If time is getting tight then ring the DVLA and see if they are able to issue you with a temporary certificate/document to show your 'new weight', assuming it's accepted by them (which it should be), whilst the new V5C is being produced. I had to do this when our new V5C wasn't going to arrive in time for our holiday - I spoke to someone called Rebecca Pugh who was very helpful and emailed me a V379 application form entitled "Information We Require To Issue a V379 Temporary Registration Certificate" (copy attached) which I printed off, completed, signed, scanned and then emailed back to her with ID documentation as detailed on the form, 3 days later she sent me the temporary certificate. Rebecca's contact details are as follows:

Rebecca Pugh
C&EG - Exports-D4
DVLA
Swansea
SA99 1AG
Tel: 01792 788501 x 8501

Original posting about this and the form is here:

http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/driving-abroad-without-v5c-doc.135107/#post-1954618

 

[Lenny HB]

send certificate (when it arrives in the post) with V5 to DVLA
Place sticker stating new weights next to VIN
Receive new V5 from Swansea

You forgot to add wait over 4 months for DVLA to get it right and loose count of the number of phone calls you make to them. But I'm only going on personal experience.

One thing you need to be aware of DVLA have a habit of changing the Revenue weight but leaving the Gross weight at 3500, Line F13 on the V5 Max permissible weight.
It is best to tell them in words of one syllable that you want line F13 changing as well as Revenue weight.

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[Bognor Saint]

With a tow bar fitted you need to be aware of your rear axle loading, tow bar probably weighs between 50-75kg and it is a long way behind the rear axle. You will probably have to uprate the rear axle loading as well. This would mean fitting wider tyres with higher load index and depending on the chassis may need to fit air suspension.

When we uprated ours we only gained 150kg of the 350kg due to rear axle loading ours has the Al-Ko AMC light chassis which is limited to 2000kg and would have cost about £2300 for tyres and air suspension, air is expensive on Al-Ko's.

This is becoming very complicated!
I just wonder how many are out there who are totally ignorant of weights etc.

 

[suavecarve]

This is becoming very complicated!
I just wonder how many are out there who are totally ignorant of weights etc.

Me
last week

 

[suavecarve]

Somebody who obviously studied physics made a valid yet obvious point the other day about overhanging weight such as the tow bar.

If you said the tow bar was 50 kgs (for easy figures) but it is 6 feet behind the rear axle, it is going to be heavier on the rear axle and it may put 75kgs of weight on there.
BUT your front axle will be 25kgs lighter

Now add your bikes to that and reconsider your distribution of weight

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[Minxy]

@Bognor Saint

The only sure way to check if you're 'legal' or not is to load it up in holiday trim, with all passengers, food, clothes, chattels, bikes, pets etc and go to a weighbridge and check each axle weight individually, you can then see if they are both okay, or if not if moving stuff from one end of the van to the other and/or rearranging where heavy stuff is stored, to even it out will help, if you aren't able to do this you'll either have to jettison some stuff/carry less water, fuel etc, or uprate.

One thing that will weigh a bit is the towbar so if you only want it for a bike rack if you remove the towbar and fit a rack on the back of the MH instead it will give you back quite a few kg on the rear axle.

 

[gus-lopez]

@magicsurfbus my understanding is that when you have sent your V5 off in the post (with the proof) then you are legally uprated. If you are going through John Ruffles it took a week from enquiry to having it in the post towards Swansea.
You also get a sticker to put on your vehicle (which presumably is a legal document) which states you uprated
You then have the qualified engineer stating it is capable only you dont have the V5 to prove it.
My understanding is that this would be the same process as when you pass your driving test. You have to send it off and are not in possession of your physical licence but have passed the test.
Open to other interpretations though as i am not positive but it makes sense to me.
I have taken photos of the certificate and my V5 as i am off in April as well and not sure the V5 will be back in time

not a lot of use abroad without the original V5

This is becoming very complicated!
I just wonder how many are out there who are totally ignorant of weights etc.

Going on people I know & have spoken to but not from 'Fun' I'd guess at 95%

 

[magicsurfbus]

If time is getting tight then ring the DVLA and see if they are able to issue you with a temporary certificate/document...

Many thanks for that information @Minxy Girl - most helpful. I've made a copy of your post for future reference.

@magicsurfbus my understanding is that when you have sent your V5 off in the post (with the proof) then you are legally uprated.

Equally informative thanks @suavecarve - It didn't occur to me that I send off the V5 after the up-plating company have done their stuff. In our case we've gone for SVTech, more expensive I know, but relatively local if they needed to see the vehicle for any reason.

Whilst we probably never went over the 3850 Kgs that our last MH was capable of carrying, I'm 100% certain we were well over the 3500 Kgs it was rated at for the 11 years we owned it, looking at all the shite we've emptied from it. The reloading of the new one has been all about downsizing for sure. A useful exercise though, meaning we'll have greater flexibility on future trips whilst (one hopes) remaining legal.

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[chaser]

In my opinion which no one takes any notice of I would say any of the new fancy motorhomes with fixed beds and the like on 3.500 weights will be over weight right from the off. But no one except people on here seem to bother.

 

[suavecarve]

@gus-lopez my theory on taking the photo (as i may not have the new original) is ..........

It is an offence in this country not to have your MOT, insurance, V5 and driving licence with you in your vehicle. This is obviously totally impracticable to enforce so they came up with the 7 day wonder or HORT/1 which gave you 7 days from midnight that night to produce the documents at the police station of your choice, then if you failed to comply you would be reported for the offence.

I am hoping/praying it is the same in France and should i be stopped and they want to see it i can show them something. Insurance, copy of V5, copy of certificate of uprating, the VIN uprate.

It is a gamble but IMHO a decent gamble as I havent been stopped in france, and should i be stopped they will be interested in insurance and possibly weight. I would ask them nicely to contact the DVLA and all things being equal, and i havent failed the attitude test, then they will give up with a shrug of their shoulders and go away to eat moules and frites.

I did a fag run a number of years ago and had them stolen from my car in France. went to the local nick to report it (as i would need a reference for my insurance claim) and did not have my insurance details with me. I did mess myself when i realised and was working out how to get home from the La Bastille. They really didnt care at all. Another shrug of the shoulders. I have no idea if my pigeon french "Je suis un gendarme de grand bretagne" helped or not but i strongly believe that it didnt make any difference. They just wanted the quickest and easiest way of getting rid of me.

 

[Lenny HB]

You really must have your V5 with you in France, if anything happens and you need a crime report for your insurance claim the gendarmes will not issue one until they have seen your V5. Over the years we have had this happen twice to us.

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[MC 55 FUN]

In my opinion which no one takes any notice of I would say any of the new fancy motorhomes with fixed beds and the like on 3.500 weights will be over weight right from the off. But no one except people on here seem to bother.

@old-mo's new 66 plate 3.5t Moho has a fixed bed & at least a half decent payload of circa 612kg

 

[pyro]

3.5T on 6M, 3 berth, 740Kg payload, and a realistic overhang, Chausson 515, works for us

 

[Spidey]

Our prev 6 m van was 3.5 and had about 800kg payload. But now i am worrying that our hymer 554 uprated to 3850 might be too heavy at the back