Help me buy my first Camper/Motorhome please? (Eeeeek!) (1 Viewer)

[David60]

Thanks again to all who recently welcomed me on the Introduction section of the Forum.

As I said there, I live in the northern Scottish Higlands (above Inverness) and I am a photographer looking to buy my first campervan/motorhome to enhance my photography and to travel Scotland (primarily). Sometimes on my own and sometime with my partner and my Labrador. Whilst I have considerable marine building/living experience I have zero motorhome/campervan experience. I hope there’s a considerable difference! I also look forward to learning from fellow members who might be generous enough to share hard won experience.

Please forgive any obvious signs of complete ignorance; I claim no knowledge and I’m aware that reading and internet research can have their faults (That’s why I joined here of course; to broaden my mind!)

My thoughts started with a second-hand van that I could throw a mattress in the back of. Such thoughts were primarily driven by my desire to wake up in distant places for the dawn light (I am a very keen and avid photographer), and by the restraints of budget. I also thought that such a vehicle would have dual purpose as I am refitting/building my old wee house too.

However, I’m lucky that my budget has free’d up considerably albeit I don’t know If it matches my dreams! I’m sure I will eb quickly grounded by those here if not . Here’s some thinking which is not in order of priority or importance….

· I’ve ruled out the typical pop-up campervan due to a) the pop-up (rarely seen one without a tear or damage) and b) lack of loo/shower and c) lack of storage. Am I wrong to have done so? Am I missing something?
· I think I’m in the market for a Class B motorhome; a campervan with loo and shower. I will most likely wish to own this vehicle for up to ten years. I’d like to buy in quarter 1 2019. I will use (providing it is safe to do so), it all year round at weekends.

· I work from home and the vehicle will be kept in my drive (off the road) and will sit unused for at least 5 days at a time throughout the worst of a Highland winter (temps can go -5<-10).
· Most I’ve looked at have been based on the Fiat Ducato chassis with a 230 engine variant. Due to the topography locally, I’d favour a 250 or higher upgrade if it was within budget. Clearly it is a very popular chassis/engine base however I’d be interested in the realities of experienced pros and cons.
· I’d like to buy new (if I can within my budget) or at worst second-hand with no more than 10000 miles.
· Or, I buy a van and employ a conversion company (if so, who?), or do I buy a ready-made reputable brand. Is this a wise consideration for my needs and lack of experience?
· I quite like a large double in the back but I’m less fond of two rear bench seats.
· I need to be able to carry 2 bicycles and add a ladder and roof box at a later stage.

I’ve (probably very naïvely), drawn up a list of must have’s and nice to have’s….

Must haves:

· A large double berth at least 6’3” long (188cm Min)
· Ability to be used in comfort in a Highland winter (off grid)
· Large enough for a couple & labrador (inc a big 6’2” chap who like his space!)
· Decent “garage” or under-berth space (to take such as Honda EU 20i, Mains hook up cable, three Peli cases, Levelling ramps, Snow/Mud Mats etc).
· Stand up head room (for the same 6’2” lump mentioned above).
· Reversing camera
· Fly screens on sliding door and main windows/skylights
· Spare wheel
· Lockable water filler
· New or less than 10,000 miles with warranty
· No wider than a panel van
· Ability to take a ladder, roof box and solar panel/s


It’d be nice:

· “Gaslow” system with external LPG filler and auto switch between tanks
· Loo and shower!
· Automatic
· 4-wheel drive
· 4 berths
· Not longer than 6m
· Built in Pleated Binds on Windscreen and side windows
· Any colour other than white!
· Campervan appropriate SatNav
· TV, aerial etc
· “Local” seller who can service/maintain vehicle
· Awning
· Bullbar
· Seat covers for (at least) the driver and passenger seats – I’ll be hopping in and out in all weathers.

I am keen to get a good understanding of running and maintenance costs. I imagine I will do c. 10-15000 (absolute max) miles per annum.

I’m hoping to get to the Scottish Caravan and Camping show at the beginning of February (work dependent). Should I prepare to make a cash offer at the show? Are such shows an unmissable opportunity for a deal?

If it can be arranged (both in respect of my time and local availability, I would like to rent a similar vehicle for a few days prior to purchase commitment.

Have I missed something obvious? Is there a vehicle variant that fits my needs, a method of entry to the market or a fundamental aspect to consider that has entirely escaped me? What must I avoid at all costs? Which brands offer the best mix of build quality v value? In due course, I’d welcome recommendations and advice as to what I should think about in respect of Insurance, Breakdown Cover, Use of vehicle covers and any Off-Grid tips.

Phew!!! Thank you if you’ve read this far! So may questions and I’m sure many of them very naïve. Please forgive that and the length of this posting. I hope that it at least demonstrates my sincerity and my reason for joining the illustrious company of MotorhomeFun

Best to all for a very Happy Hogmanay. I hope I’m joining you on the road in 2019

Thank you so much. Folk like you mean the world to folk like me.
David

 

[David60]

Thanks @Garfields Yes, there are three Globecar models I'm interested to see in person. I've been YouTube'ing for some months and I'm still confused in their model differentiation in some respects. I'm also attracted to a couple of Adria models but I fear the Globecars and Adrias may be out of my price range. SunLiving V60LB is also being looked at. I've been warned off Auto Trail so they're off the list. I need to see the interiors of more vehicles in the flesh so to speak; a tricky thing when based where I am.

 

[Wombles]

Hi & welcome! You've come to the right place as lots of knowledgeable Funsters here
We aren't experts but we spent a couple of years viewing & researching van conversions including the whole Globecar range before we ordered our Summit so will PM you (see Inbox in top right of web page) to see if our experience might be of help too.

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[Brucek]

Thanks @Garfields Yes, there are three Globecar models I'm interested to see in person. I've been YouTube'ing for some months and I'm still confused in their model differentiation in some respects. I'm also attracted to a couple of Adria models but I fear the Globecars and Adrias may be out of my price range. SunLiving V60LB is also being looked at. I've been warned off Auto Trail so they're off the list. I need to see the interiors of more vehicles in the flesh so to speak; a tricky thing when based where I am.

Don't want to confuse things, but we have a 2018 Autotrail V-line 540se, 150bhp comfortmatic bought from Perthshire Caravans and are very happy with it. Okay, been a few niggles, but quickly sorted out by the dealer. With respect one person's throw away remark should not be enough to condemn an entire manufacturer.

 

[Blue Knight]

With respect one person's throw away remark should not be enough to condemn an entire manufacturer.

I've lost count regarding the dozens of reports I read in 2018 about Autotrail and its disastrous build quality.

I'm pleased that you've been relatively unaffected but there are a whole load of Autotrail V-line owners out there who have wanted nothing else in life than to see the back of their vans.

To buy an Autotrail these days is a big gamble and I'll not be buying another one again unless they pick up their quality game significantly.

 

[Bdeners]

Hi David,
I was in your position this time last year, you have made the right start by listing must haves and nice to haves but then trying to find a dealer close by that has what you are looking for becomes a challenge. We visited Perthshire caravans on a few occasions when we spotted one we thought met our criteria but due to lack of interest from their sales person we ending up buying from Oaktree Motorhomes in Nottingham..
Get out there and look inside a few, as someone else says you will start to get a feel for what you like and don’t like, but in Motorhomes everything is a compromise.
Start to get an idea of price for getting solar, refillable gas and any other extras you would like, if they are not on the van then you can build it into your budget.
Visit the show at the SSEC and sit inside as many as you can, would suggest trying to visit on the Thursday or Friday if you can as its slightly quieter than the weekend.
Good luck on your search.

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[Puddleduck]

Thanks @Garfields Yes, there are three Globecar models I'm interested to see in person. I've been YouTube'ing for some months and I'm still confused in their model differentiation in some respects. I'm also attracted to a couple of Adria models but I fear the Globecars and Adrias may be out of my price range. SunLiving V60LB is also being looked at. I've been warned off Auto Trail so they're off the list. I need to see the interiors of more vehicles in the flesh so to speak; a tricky thing when based where I am.

We have a 2016 model SunLiving and love it. Not so keen on the newer models but the 2016 models are like hen's teeth on the used market - they tend to sell as soon as they go onto the forecourt.

We live in The Scottish Borders but bought our SunLiving from Geoff Cox near Derby. Roseisle near Edinburgh were dealers as well at one time but I am not sure if they still are. I'll pm you.

 

[two]

I don’t think you can look at too many vans. Once you have identified a layout and/or manufacturer, home-in on just those. Even if you intend to buy new, looking at older versions will give you a guide as to how well they are likely to ‘wear’ and what can happen to their value over time. Life will be much easier if you can reduce your choice to just one model. All you’ll need, then, will be patience. If you buy new, prefer a local dealer because you are most likely to be returning to them for snagging.

You will need to travel to be able to research properly. Plan a trip to several large dealers. The more you invest at this stage may save you a considerable amount later.

 

[Rolyan]

To: Blue Night

Wow Andrew! You're incredibly helpful.
As it happens I was looking at a Globecar Scout R today and liked a lot of that I saw. Yes, I've heard of Highland Campervans and will visit them when they open after the holidays. I may arrange a rental from them to further my knowledge of reality too! Certainly, if I can afford them, Globecar have many of the elements I "think" I need
Thanks again Andrew ..fabulous help.

My nephew Mark works at Highland Campervans as a service technician. I need to get up there sometime and see him. Perhaps I could wrangle a family discount!

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[Garfields]

If you fancy a Sun Living van this is worth viewing

 

[Carlc]

Selling our 2011 Warwick Duo ?

 

[Viennese]

If you can wait a while there is a big show in Glasgow early Feb where you could see lots of vans which might suit.
See https://10times.com/holiday-travelshow-glasgow/exhibitors

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[David60]

My nephew Mark works at Highland Campervans as a service technician. I need to get up there sometime and see him. Perhaps I could wrangle a family discount!

Now you're talking @Rolyan !!! We're only a couple of weeks into the New Year and you;re already heading to teh top of my Christmas Car list.

I had hoped to visit them yesterday but for work reasons I couldn't. Unfortunately then aren't open on Sundays. I'l try again next Saturday and hope I can make it. I hope they have a decent stock of sales/rental vans including Gloebcar and Adria (both of which have models I am interested to see). I may also see if I can arrange a short hire from them for next month.

Good to hear you have connections there. Presumably you'd speak highly of your nephew's abilities? Thanks so much for your post.
Best
David

 

[David60]

Selling our 2011 Warwick Duo ?

Thanks @Carlc I'm hoping for a newer vehicle at this stage. That said, I have a LOT to learn and can feel compromise creeping in daily!

 

[David60]

If you can wait a while there is a big show in Glasgow early Feb where you could see lots of vans which might suit.
See https://10times.com/holiday-travelshow-glasgow/exhibitors

Hi @Vieneese Yes, thanks for that. It is on my radar and I intend to visit ...again, work permitting!

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[David60]

If you fancy a Sun Living van this is worth viewing

Yep, I've seen that ( a few times ). That van is embedded on my shortlist and close to the top at the moment. Thanks so much

 

[David60]

Oki Doki ...time for an update on where my thinking is! I can't promise that this will meet any standards of logic or be close to where I end up. It will no doubt be full of contradiction and compromise but if so, it reflects input from many generous Forumites who have given freely of sage advice and to whom I am very grateful. In some respects, the extra knowledge I've gained has slowed me down considerably and asked me to rethink things; exactly what one would hope would happen when listening to the experiences of others.

• I started off thinking I needed a PVC (with loo/shower etc) and not a fully fledged Motorhome or a pop-up style camper. I though I didn't want to exceed 6m in length. This is still the case and is reinforced as a starting point.
• I hoped for (up to) 4 berths but 2 would do if I had to settle for that providing they were a large double transverse bed at the rear. This is still the case and yes, I'd still like a proper 3rd and/or 4th berth if possible.
• I've googled, you-tubed and read voraciously over the past year and I am reminded that, whilst incredibly useful, there's nothing quite as good as crawling about in a van and speaking with owners!
• I am increasingly concerned that my budget won't deliver my needs. If that is the case, I can;t raise my budget so I may consider an entirely different solution to my needs (which, are outlined in my first post).
• I will be visiting the Glasgow Show in eh SEC in February and will crawl about as many vans as I can (including those I think are too small or too big for me)
• I hope to arrange a rental of a Globecar or Adria or Sun Living van for a few days in February (after the SEC show). I will determine that within the next week if I can get to visit my (reasonably) local dealer.
• I have no appetite for importing from abroad or for a custom conversion/self-build route. I neither have the skills nor the time and secondly, would be concerned for service/warranty issues and asset value retention.
• My knowledge of who's a "good" manufacturer/brand and who's to be avoided at all costs is VERY poor. I'd welcome help here. I am looking at Adria including Sun Living, Globecar, Westfalia and AutoSleepers. There are many more of course but I don't have a clue which other brands provide a decent build quality/reputation/service standard ...or are within a sniff of my (non-flexible) budget (£45k to max, if a lot of my would likes are included £50k - see original post for lists).
• I will be needing to survive for up to three nights at a time unplugged and nowhere near a campsite. Now I'm used to camping (in a tent) so I can make do with less facilities at such times but it's still worth mentioning.

To mention actual Brands and Models, the Globecar Vario, Globecar Summit, SunLiving V60SO and Ardria Twin Supreme 600SP are on my short-list but I'm dubious on budget. None of these vans have everything I want but, over time with effort, they could get close I think.

Two specific questions please Funsters:

1. Given my insistence on a transverse full double and 6m length (max), what other reputable vans (specific Brand Model names would really help) should I be looking at? (Opens can of worms!! )
2. Which of my "Nice to haves" (see original post above) would you insist be added at time of purchase and which can just as easily be fitted later?

Lastly, a huge thank you to all who have illustrated so ably why this Forum has the friendly and helpful reputation it does. I am privileged to have joined you in the Forum and hope to do so on the road, with your help, soon. To those who have PM's and take extra trouble to advise, please know how grateful I am. A lot of drinks owed when we pass at some future occasion. Thank you. I'm sorry that I don't get the time to reply with the immediacy that many posts deserve. I'm no less grateful though for your always worthwhile advice.

Best wishes to all for a safe and happy 2019
David

 

[David60]

Ooops! As an addendum to my previous post...

I meant to say, one can see that most of teh vans I'm honing in on at this stage are based on a Fiat Ducato chassis. That's coincidence from my perspective as I've driven none and not made an informed decision based on my driving or maintenance experience. However, teh fat that the Fiat Ducato is such a popular base and one of longstanding does tel me a certain amount. From everything Ive read and been told by fellow Funsters, the 150bhp variant is the minimum to specify and the manual gearbox preferable. Those last two elements, if what I buy is Ducato based, have become must have's I think.

However, I'm not knowledgeable enough to dismiss, Citroen, Puugeot, Ford or Mercedes variants. I doubt I coudl afford a Mercedes based variant much as if I could it would race to my number one spot!

Again, all advice, experiences welcomed. I will try to reply to all in time.
Thanks
David

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[Viennese]

Have a look at WildAx's Aurora Leisure XL, they will be at Glasgow. They will build on a Fiat if you want altho they usually use Citroen Relay.

 

[David60]

Have a look at WildAx's Aurora Leisure XL, they will be at Glasgow. They will build on a Fiat if you want altho they usually use Citroen Relay.

Hello again @Viennese Thank you! I will do. Made a note
I don't know the WildAx range. Would you recommend them for quality?

 

[David60]

@Viennese ...just checked it out. Lacks a Must Have for me which is the transverse double at the rear. I don't want rear single couches that join as I'll leave the big tranerse double up all the time and use the "garage" space beneath. Thanks though

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[Wombles]

A few others that may be worth a look:
Sunlight https://www.sunlight.de/en/series/camper-van/ - built by Dethleffs probably in the same factory in Germany as D Line Globecars & sold by UK dealers.
Dreamer by Rapido https://www.dreamer-van.co.uk/ - French with good build quality & UK dealers.
A wild card is the Tribute https://www.auto-trail.co.uk/range/tribute which now made by Auto-Trail & although it does not have a rear permanent double bed the bed could be left made up although as it is lower than the others would mean less garage space. Not ideal but a possible budget option.

 

[David60]

A few others that may be worth a look:
Sunlight https://www.sunlight.de/en/series/camper-van/ - built by Dethleffs probably in the same factory in Germany as D Line Globecars & sold by UK dealers.
Dreamer by Rapido https://www.dreamer-van.co.uk/ - French with good build quality & UK dealers.
A wild card is the Tribute https://www.auto-trail.co.uk/range/tribute which now made by Auto-Trail & although it does not have a rear permanent double bed the bed could be left made up although as it is lower than the others would mean less garage space. Not ideal but a possible budget option.

Thanks @Wombles ....off to Google and You Tube (again!)

 

[David60]

@Wombles ..two great suggestions in the Sunlight Cliff 600 and the Dreamer D55+ Select ...both vans I'll look out for at the show. Thanks so much. you seem to have a good handle on what I am looking for Much appreciated.

Best
D

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[Puddleduck]

If you fancy a Sun Living van this is worth viewing

Great video !! We have a 2016 coach built SunLiving. I agree that the seat covers are not that great - we have sheepskins over ours as they are starting to wear after 10,000 miles. Our shower room is different and the sink does drain!! I don't like the newer cupboards and catches, prefer ours but that is personal choice.

It is a lot of van for the money though - as ours was

 

[Tonnie]

Re WildAx, i am really impressed with their quality, I’ve hired the europa & am shortly to hire the aurora leisure XL. Like others my ideas on what works for me & the size I think I’m comfortable driving, has changed through use.: I thought single beds were best until my husband fell out of one & couldnt get back up, so now I’m considering the dînette & rear loung which
Can make up the double bed, permanently or nighttime only for these reasons.
You mention bikes, with the aurora leisure XL I can get a bike Inside when the bed’s not made up, saves putting on the bike rack just for me if I’m out for a days cycling.
There is the choice of bed made or not, which can be a useful option.
I now have a dog & I want to cut down on the amount of work setting up & have all thé tanks accessible from outside. Time will tell but there really is no substitute for trying out a van once the « possibles » list has been tweaked to a manageable level.
The next van will be my second only, the first was a big mistake & costly because I had fixed dreamlike ideas & really didn’t consider as much as i could have. The hit to sell now is considerable as mine is less than a year old & 2000miles on the clock. You are definitely doing the right thing by taking time.
I wasn’t aware of this website until later last Year. Good luck you will get there. WildAx now have a few dealers I know there’s one in Cumbria but they go to shows where their range is on display.
By the way, I’m not paid to promote WildAx, just happy to add my two penny worth of minisvule experience
.

 

[Tonnie]

I believe there’s a you tube video of Andrew ditton’s tour of Scotland in a sun living. His videos are useful if you haven’t seen them already. Buying the van is the start, then there’s the other necessary expenses to make the van useful. Eg hookup cable etc etc

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[David60]

I believe there’s a you tube video of Andrew ditton’s tour of Scotland in a sun living. His videos are useful if you haven’t seen them already. Buying the van is the start, then there’s the other necessary expenses to make the van useful. Eg hookup cable etc etc

Thanks so much @Tonnie. Yes, I saw all Andrew's videos a few months ago and that's why Sun Living went straight to my short list.

I really do appreciate your sharing you very hard (and costly) won experience. I too will try to hire (maybe a few times) before I buy. I have never campervan'ed (?) before. Maybe I'll hate it! Maybe I'll find that those things I think are important are not (to me, at any rate) and vice versa. My usage and needs are particular to me but even with that said, one learns in life the value of listening to the experience of others. Thanks for bring WildAx onto my radar. I'll keep an eye out for then at the Glasgow show ...it seems as if I'll have a busy time crawling about and openinga nd closing things at that show!

Thanks again and good luck with your forthcoming hires
Best
David

 

[aogrady]

Hi,

I’m a relative newbie with this too, I have a LWB VW T5 PVC, which is probably too small by far, (though I have a loo, shower, solar, water and lpg tanks, eberspacher, hot water etc) but I recall seeing a Mercedes XLWB PVC with 4x4, it was winterised etc, I’ll try and see where I found it, Westfalia do some nice PVC too...

Best of luck!

Alistair
North Devon coast.

 

[David60]

Hi @aogrady ! I don't feel I've been here long enough to have any proprietorial sense of welcoming you! None the less, welcome to this thread at least. Great to have someone else new. That said, it sounds as if you have many times the experience of me

What a wonderful part of the world you're in! I love that coast. Yes please; if you find that Mercedes detail I'd be most interested. By all means PM me if you wish with a link.
Meanwhile, many thanks for adding to the thread with your experience, however new

Best
David

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[CazPaul]

Hi,

I’m a relative newbie with this too, I have a LWB VW T5 PVC, which is probably too small by far, (though I have a loo, shower, solar, water and lpg tanks, eberspacher, hot water etc) but I recall seeing a Mercedes XLWB PVC with 4x4, it was winterised etc, I’ll try and see where I found it, Westfalia do some nice PVC too...

Best of luck!

Alistair
North Devon coast.

Surely that Merc 4x4 you mention will have been a home build by someone?