Help! 12v not working. Leisure batts dead? Advice pls! (1 Viewer)

[Rusty Pumper]

Howdy folks,

I've just picked up my Swift Kon Tiki 2002 640L from the garage having spent a small fortune on getting the dodgy gears sorted, only to find I have no 12v supply.

I have 250 solar, and assumed that whilst outside (where it has been at the garage for 5 days), that the sun would charge the leisure batteries. I turned the 12v supply off when I left it last Wednesday, all was good; but today the indicator on the battery condition indicator is in the red and the solar power unit (FOX - D1) is flashing on and off reading -102.2: indicating battery totally discharged.

I have 2x 110ah leisure batteries under passenger and driver seat respectively. Garage not caravan specialist. Up until last Wednesday batteries fully charged.

I'll get some ladders and check the cables on the solar units are all connected.

I'm now back at a campsite, and on EHU, but still no joy. I joined fun for minor crisis like this. Please folks, advise this newbie what to do. I'm hoping it's straightforward....

Many thanks,

Funky.

 

[beltsandbraces]

batteries should not have depleted in that space of time, don't know your set up but I have fuses next to the batterys themselves and if one of them blow I lose all 12v. hope this helps.

 

[Rusty Pumper]

Thanks, b&b. Just checked RCD, nothing tripped. Switched over to 240v, so have power. Solar meter reading 13.7v. Should EHU recharge both batteries if depleted? I agree, shouldn't be depleted, but as I said above, were fine off hook up, prior to garage visit.

Thanks for the reply.

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[beltsandbraces]

so on EHU you are getting a 12v feed which would suggest to me the batteries being shot.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Maybe someone at the garage left switched something on whilst doing your gearbox, I would recharge the batteries and then recheck. they should recharge on hook up but maybe you should charge each one sepratly. the 12 volt sockets will work whilst on ehu .

 

[two]

Is there a (big red) master switch somewhere?
If you have no 12V while on EHU, I think that's the most likely explanation.

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[Rusty Pumper]

Still no juice on 12v alone. Fine when I click power to hook up.

Do I put a multimeter on batteries to check if dead? That's 5 days at garage with 250W solar panels charging them. I know I'm a newbie, but that should have been enough, surely? It's been sunny here at least 3 days to keep them charged. Engine battery fine.
If batteries shot, do I have any recourse with the garage? Difficult to prove...

If no power in morning after night on hook up then I can only assume they're buggered! I'll post in the morning....

3rd gear crunching in synchromesh. Known poor design issue with earlier Fiat Ducatos I was made aware prior to purchasing the van, a couple of weeks ago. For the unaware please read excellent articles and links:

https://www.motorhomevagabond.com/fulltiming/fiat-ducato-gearbox-problems/

Syncro rings replaced in 3rd and as a back up 5th gear ( which can 'slip out' eventually.). Gearbox taken out, stripped, cleaned and Fiat OEM clutch fitted. I was advised it would only get worse, and some parts are now obsolete, apparently. Thanks Fiat.

Nite, nite,

Funky.

 

[Reallyretired]

You said you switched the 12v off when you left it at the garage. Have you one of those centre off switches likd I had the last time I had a kontiki, if so you may have turned of charging to the batteries. If they go flat that quickly though, the batteries are either duff or something was left on.

 

[beltsandbraces]

if your 12v is working on hook up it would point to the batteries, even if the garage had switched something on that would cause a huge drain it would be hard to prove and batteries do have a shelf life so I doubt very much you could have any comeback on the garage.

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[Rusty Pumper]

Howdy Funsters,
Thanks for the feedback. Thats my first lesson and expensive mistake. It looks like I'be inadvertently buggered the leisure batteries. No juice when unplugged from hook up. I'll have to see what I can get sorted out...

Next time, do I double check nothing is on, and ask a garage to keep the van plugged up to electrical hook up to keep the leisure batteries charged? I foolishly thought 250w solar should have been enough to keep them ticking over whilst outside. Doh!!

 

[mexican pete]

It's not clear from the posts above but have you put a meter across the actual battery terminals? Test it with the EHU off and then again with the EHU on. With the power on you should see the charging voltage there. If not you have a circuit fault. Are the clamps on the terminals tight and corrosion free? The garage should have disconnected the vehicle battery when working on the gearbox, did they also disconnect the leisure battery? Hope this helps. Peter.

 

[Kevan]

250 watt solar should have been more than enough to keep the batteries up.

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[beltsandbraces]

you don't need to be on EHU to keep the batteries topped up your solar panels will do that for you if the batteries are in good shape.

 

[hilldweller]

Howdy Funsters,!

You are not making any sense here.

250W should run your whole 12V system all summer without hook up.

Even without solar the batteries should hold charger for months.

"I turned 12v off". I don't know what that achieves on your van, it could isolate 12v appliances ( lights ), it could isolate the leisure batteries cutting them off from the solar.

First job is try and get some charge into the batteries. Then immediately get an ammeter on them and find out if something is draining them. Some vans have to ridiculous feature of a heater in the waste tank running off leisure which if left on is a killer.

Putting in new batteries without find out what killed the originals would be a very bad move.

 

[Zains Pops]

Not helpful to your problem, but as a guide, my van has been unused since October and sat without solar or EHU. On Saturday I went to prep it ready for a trip and it started first go. The leisure batteries are showing full power. So a few days in a garage should be neither here or there. You have something drawing the system, or the batteries are knackered. Buy a multi meter and start to measure the voltage on the batteries when isolated and at rest.
Best of luck.

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[chaser]

Have you got a normal battery charger, one of the smart ones are best , if you have , disconnect your battery and try chargeing it compleatly free of any drain and see what happens then.

 

[Rusty Pumper]

Thanks for all of the above. It's a conundrum. Sorry if I'm not making sense. I'll try and see what I can figure out. Keep suggesting ideas, please. I'll keep you all posted. It just doesn't make sense.....

 

[rangi]

Getting back to your G/BOX did you have the Peugeot Modification put on, or have it established that it is already on?
(Yes there is a FIAT badge on the front but the engine g/box is Peugeot)
This takes the water from the scuttle and takes it away from dripping on your G/Box. Well worth the £20-30 it costs as regards to a recon G/Box @£800 or so

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[Rusty Pumper]

I did not have the modification, as I was unaware of it. Mechanic said he moved the pipe to stop water draining into gear box.

 

[DanielFord]

@FunkyFlunky any chance you can post us up a picture of both your control panel, and the power supply unit (which is usually in a front cupboard). We'll be able to tell you which switches to push then.

 

[Rusty Pumper]

Howdy folks,

Apologies for being such a numpty.

1: I got my Aldi battery maintenance charger and fully charged both 110ah batteries.
2: I disconnected hook up and got mutimeter reading on both batteries. Both read fully charged at 13.7v, and when on hook up.
3: I checked fuses all fuses in wardrobe unit of van, and in glovebox of van - none appear to have blown.
4: I got on a pair of high steps to check solar panel connections all in place, and nothing seemed out of order.

I know I'm a newbie, and a lot of you lovely folks can problem solve this in your sleep, but I don't know what to do next.

I've only just got the van, so it's all a steep learning curve. Nevertheless, thanks for bearing with me. When it is solved, (hopefully) I'll post what the issue was.

Deep Joy,

Flunky.

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[hilldweller]

You need to know why they are flat, so you need to get an ammeter in the + or - leads from the battery whichever is easiest. Slight problem is you may not have a decent AMPS range, ideally you start on 20A range and work 10A, 5A etc depending on the meter. You really need to be seeing well under 1 amp with everything turned off.

You can also see how fast the volts drop as they are now, should drop to about 12.7 quickly and hold that for days.

 

[chaser]

Howdy folks,

Apologies for being such a numpty.

1: I got my Aldi battery maintenance charger and fully charged both 110ah batteries.
2: I disconnected hook up and got mutimeter reading on both batteries. Both read fully charged at 13.7v, and when on hook up.
3: I checked fuses all fuses in wardrobe unit of van, and in glovebox of van - none appear to have blown.
4: I got on a pair of high steps to check solar panel connections all in place, and nothing seemed out of order.

I know I'm a newbie, and a lot of you lovely folks can problem solve this in your sleep, but I don't know what to do next.

I've only just got the van, so it's all a steep learning curve. Nevertheless, thanks for bearing with me. When it is solved, (hopefully) I'll post what the issue was.

Deep Joy,

Flunky.

Have you asked the bloke you bought it off, he might have put some switch somewhere that no one else knows about.

 

[autorouter]

the solar power unit (FOX - D1) is flashing on and off reading -102.2: indicating battery totally discharged.

Your Fox-D1 battery monitor will show either current or voltage. There is a push-in button switch, IN for current, OUT for voltage.

Your reading of -102.2 (I assume) means 102.2 milliamps of current, and the MINUS means it's flowing OUT of the battery. This is perfectly normal for battery that's just powering a control panel and some very low power electronics like a multiway fridge control board.

When people say the battery voltage indicates the condition of the battery, what they mean is the battery voltage with NOTHING connected to it, after leaving it to rest for at least an hour.

If you have something connected, like a charger, solar panel or device consuming current, then voltage is a very bad indication of the battery condition. It can be hopelessly optimistic (solar panel into a dud battery can produce 13.7 Volts) or unnecessarily pessimistic (12.2 Volts on a good fully charged battery powering an inverter).

When you are on EHU, does the monitor show a large POSITIVE current flow? I would expect at least 5 amps, more like 15 amps if the batteries are low on charge. If not, there's a break in the circuit: either a blown fuse, a hidden switch or a bad connection. Or possibly a faulty charger, but I think your charger is working because it provides 12V power when on EHU.

Also bear in mind that it can take 10 or even 20 hours for a 15 amp charger to fill up a pair of 100aH batteries, even though the voltage will go up to over 13 volts in a few minutes. When the batteries are fully charged I expect the current will drop down to about +100 milliamps. Note, that's a PLUS, going INTO the battery.

250 watt solar should have been more than enough to keep the batteries up.

I agree. Your 250 watt solar rig should be totally OK for keeping batteries charged. I have a 2.4 watt panel (the size of a sheet of paper) that kept my 100aH starter battery topped up for weeks through the North German winter.

Is there a (big red) master switch somewhere?

Some master switches have a big red key which is removable. In the OFF position, it's loose, and can fall out. What's left is a black plastic thing with a hole in, that doesn't look like a switch at all. If the van's new to you, it's possible you might not know this.

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[autorouter]

When you are on EHU, does the monitor show a large POSITIVE current flow?

What idiot posted this? Oops, that'd be me then.

The Fox-D1 display is probably only monitoring the solar output, not the EHU/charger output.

 

[DanielFord]

I'm fairly convinced that @FunkyFlunky has in fact got the power switched off, but since he bought from someone who didn't know about motorhomes, his handover was probably negligible. I'm waiting to see pictures so we can guide him in the correct direction.
I had to have the synchro replaced on 3rd gear in our van, but we never had issues like this!

 

[Rusty Pumper]

Hello folks,

Firstly, thank you all for making time to try and help me sort this. I'm feeling like such a dumbo.

I'm off site and off grid after the weekend so must get this sorted before then. This is critical for me to resolve. I feel it is something simple that I'm missing - probably a few motorhome brain cells, but as I've said previously my last vehicle was a VW camper. I've never had a motorhome before. It really shouldn't be this difficult, and in reality probably isn't.

I've taken some pictures, I've gone into privacy settings, but cannot see a request from MH fun to allow access to my iPad. Very frustrating, making me look even more stupid!

The mechanic said he knew nothing about motorhomes, so I can only assume the habitation batteries were not disconnected.

The Transformer Charger unit (in the wardrobe) is labelled as an 'Inter Power Battery charger'. It has a black switch on the top which I toggle right to turn on when on hook up, and left for 12v. I've got the ' Swift Motorhomes Owners Handbook' and there is no mention of a master switch, that I am aware of.

When on EHU and turned to 12v (down position on battery condition switch) showing positive reading of 13.7 on Fox-D1 and full battery. When switch on battery condition in middle position (off) the reading appears to 'pulse' and give readings between + and - 102. and various figures.

I contacted the previous owner who said he'd not had any problems with 12v supply previously, and gave me details of solar panel providers who I called who told me 'if the display on the Fox D-1 is flashing there is a problem with the power supply to the distribution board'.

Should I leave my phone number on here, and somebody can give me an idiots guide on what I can do. I'm trying to sort this with your assistance, failing all else, I'll have to book it in somewhere and pay someone to sort it.

Thank you all, once again for your time and patience with me in attempting to problem solve this issue.