Hello, How are fellow motorhomes coping with the new EU regulations on the 90 day stays in Europe, it has certainly has messed up my plans. (1 Viewer)

[acropolis22]

It is acknowledged that about 0.8 - 1.0 million brits have a Spanish holiday home plus possibly the same in France a not insignificant number.

Sure, but how many will be affected by the new rules? Most will only be there for a few weeks of the year.

 

[Garry - June]

I think if the money people can see money to be made in Morocco there will investment in campsites, winter apartments etc, may be even a marigold hotel. All down to the money

Coming from a sailing background i know from my old sailing friends that Morocco have made some big investments in marinas realising the potential extra demand coming their way.... i presume the same will follow with Aires/Campsites too...

 

[MattR]

It is acknowledged that about 0.8 - 1.0 million brits have a Spanish holiday home plus possibly the same in France a not insignificant number.

To be precise, aren't there approx 0.8-1 million UK owned properties in Spain? Relatively few would be occupied for 90 days. I know 6 or 7 British owned properties... only 2 are residents. The rest go for 6 weeks max. I know that isn't representative of the country but it appears to be common in the part of the Costa Del Sol that I know.

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[The Wino]

To be precise, aren't there approx 0.8-1 million UK owned properties in Spain? Relatively few would be occupied for 90 days. I know 6 or 7 British owned properties... only 2 are residents. The rest go for 6 weeks max. I know that isn't representative of the country but it appears to be common in the part of the Costa Del Sol that I know.

I suspect that a lot of those owners rent out their properties or let family use them.

 

[jumar]

Coming from a sailing background i know from my old sailing friends that Morocco have made some big investments in marinas realising the potential extra demand coming their way.... i presume the same will follow with Aires/Campsites too...

It could be interesting if they did such a thing.....

 

[MattR]

I suspect that a lot of those owners rent out their properties or let family use them.

Totally agree. Just don't think many would come under the 90 day rule. Not enough anyway.

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[Littlewheels]

To be precise, aren't there approx 0.8-1 million UK owned properties in Spain? Relatively few would be occupied for 90 days. I know 6 or 7 British owned properties... only 2 are residents. The rest go for 6 weeks max. I know that isn't representative of the country but it appears to be common in the part of the Costa Del Sol that I know.

Very different view to my experience having owned a property since 1986 and know so many folk affected by the 90 day limit that spent up to the 180 day mark, l have been away since last July returning a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Top Hat]

The income from 1000s of M/Hs and proberty owners + tourists that want to stay longer than 90 days is on the plus side of a country's ballance sheet.
What do they loose from from allowing 180/360 I am at a loss to think of anything.
It will only take one country to decide to made it easier to do this for others to follow.

 

[jumar]

Totally agree. Just don't think many would come under the 90 day rule. Not enough anyway.

Let's start by calling it the 180 rule...because that's what it is....but not in one go....
Our resort is made up of Spanish, Norwegians, Brits and others....those who are not residents come for a few weeks, return home and come again when they can...they mainly play on site golf.....return home to work...invested here loads of cash, they cannot move their apartment like motorhomers can relocate to another country...they are the ones who have been stung....due to the loss of flexibility...

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[Ivory55]

The income from 1000s of M/Hs and proberty owners + tourists that want to stay longer than 90 days is on the plus side of a country's ballance sheet.
What do they loose from from allowing 180/360 I am at a loss to think of anything.
It will only take one country to decide to made it easier to do this for others to follow.

Will they be allowed, I thought it was an eu rule

 

[jumar]

Will they be allowed, I thought it was an eu rule

Schengen Ruling not individual EU countries...

 

[MattR]

Very different view to my experience having owned a property since 1986 and know so many folk affected by the 90 day limit that spent up to the 180 day mark, l have been away since last July returning a couple of weeks ago.

Let's start by calling it the 180 rule...because that's what it is....but not in one go....
Our resort is made up of Spanish, Norwegians, Brits and others....those who are not residents come for a few weeks, return home and come again when they can...they mainly play on site golf.....return home to work...invested here loads of cash, they cannot move their apartment like motorhomers can relocate to another country...they are the ones who have been stung....due to the loss of flexibility...

The folk I know would spend 6 months a year there but not in one go, typically avoiding July and August and Jan and Feb ... they aim to spend (365÷2)+1days in the UK for NHS and avoid the heat and humidity of the summer or cold of the winter... I know that there are lots of different circumstances but how much will the Spanish economy lose out? I doubt that it will be enough to generate a change. I'd be pleased if it does though as our plans for the future remain messed-up.

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[busby]

The income from 1000s of M/Hs and proberty owners + tourists that want to stay longer than 90 days is on the plus side of a country's ballance sheet.
What do they loose from from allowing 180/360 I am at a loss to think of anything.
It will only take one country to decide to made it easier to do this for others to follow.

Trouble is when they do so odd ones on here will be very disappointed BUSBY.

 

[jongood]

Isn't Spain making wild camping more difficult? If there are spaces in the campsites because Brits can't stay for long, I'm guessing that there will be pressure to get those spaces filled by Europeans.... that will be relatively easy on a local Municipal scale.

Ive noticed more and more aires appearing in Spain

 

[jongood]

It could be interesting if they did such a thing.....

There are more places, both campsites and others since we started going to Morocco 7 years ago

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[busby]

Ive noticed more and more aires appearing in Spain

So have we over the last couple of years.

 

[EuroTrotters]

Surely the 90 day rule isn't going to affect villa renters?

Hi,

I was referring to the way brits tend to spend their money over locals.

The less Brits there are in any scenario, the local economies may suffer.

 

[MattR]

Ive noticed more and more aires appearing in Spain

Will there be limits on the duration of stay and will the Germans, Dutch etc turn them into long-term campsites? I'm guessing they're taking the French model to generate more income for local communities and giving alternatives to increasingly illegal wild camps. How would they benefit UK motorhomers 90/180?

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[MattR]

Hi,

I was referring to the way brits tend to spend their money over locals.

The less Brits there are in any scenario, the local economies may suffer.

By enough?

 

[busby]

Will there be limits on the duration of stay and will the Germans, Dutch etc turn them into long-term campsites? I'm guessing they're taking the French model to generate more income for local communities and giving alternatives to increasingly illegal wild camps. How would they benefit UK motorhomers 90/180?

No they are not..Called camperstops they are very similar to sites.Usually have toilets and showers,some have bar restaurants and usually in a decent location.One five miles north of Malaga is on the beach and 10 or 12 euros a night with leccy. I think planning permission for them must be easier than a full blown campsite..Springing up very quickly ..well pre Covid.BUSBY.

 

[Littlewheels]

Will there be limits on the duration of stay and will the Germans, Dutch etc turn them into long-term campsites? I'm guessing they're taking the French model to generate more income for local communities and giving alternatives to increasingly illegal wild camps. How would they benefit UK motorhomers 90/180?

Though the availability of Camperstops has increased they are 95% privately owned so unfortunately for those that like to tour the Germans and Dutch turn up offer an upfront payment at a discounted price and the owner takes the offer thus guaranteeing his income.
They ruin the whole ethos of Motorhoming having said that a lot of Brits use their MH’s to only travel to Spain for the winter and stay in one location and return. Which is what lots on here are unhappy about in not being able under the 90/180.

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[nicholsong]

as long as you can comply with article 2.2 here. Or Article 3 ,Beneficiaries.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32004L0038&from=en

To Richard and all others who have referred the 2004/38/EC

Firstly thanks for trying to help navigate through this minefield.

While I comply with those provisions 2004/38/EC only concerns rights of entry, exit and residence in one's Host State within the EU. It says nothing about travel outside the Host State, It does not confer Citizenship on those permitted to reside in the Host State.

At present I cannot find anything that actually grants Residents of EU States the same rights to travel elsewhere in the Schengen area free of the 90/180 rule, even under the Withdrawal Agreement. other than the interpretation put on it by the Spanish Embassy in London, which is contrary to the interpretation put on it by the British Consulate/Embassy in Poland.

I have given the Warsaw Consulate until the 15th April to reply then I shall go direct to the FCDO in London, probably with a direct letter to Dominic Raab.

Would anyone like to take a bet that the answer from them will be along the lines of:-

"The question you pose is open to interpretation and therefore you should ask each country how they view the Withdrawal Agreement and its effect on British Citizens resident in EU States."

If so, at that point I shall be steaming in with all guns blazing as to why HM Government, acting on behalf of British Citizens and taxpayers did not draft the wording so as not to be open to interpretation.

Watch this space.

Geoff

 

[MattR]

Though the availability of Camperstops has increased they are 95% privately owned so unfortunately for those that like to tour the Germans and Dutch turn up offer an upfront payment at a discounted price and the owner takes the offer thus guaranteeing his income.
They ruin the whole ethos of Motorhoming having said that a lot of Brits use their MH’s to only travel to Spain for the winter and stay in one location and return. Which is what lots on here are unhappy about in not being able under the 90/180.

I'm unhappy too. We wanted the option of touring or staying for more than 90 days.

 

[gus-lopez]

Ive noticed more and more aires appearing in Spain

& there are far more Germans, Dutch & Belgians buying up land ,usually within site of beaches cheap as chips for there own & friends private use . i've seen 2 or 3 recently.

One five miles north of Malaga is on the beach and 10 or 12 euros a night with leccy. I think planning permission for them must be easier than a full blown campsite..Springing up very quickly ..well pre Covid.BUSBY.

Amazing isn't it when we have the 'Ley de la Costas' (1989) prohibiting any type of building within 500m of high tide line, we have ministries creeping about registering anything within those boundaries & imposing demolition orders on properties which have been in existence for 200+ years , even though the spanish constitution doesn't allow retrospective enforcement of laws?
& then you see new ones being built?
last one I saw being built was apartments frontline beach in Águilas by the council as "Vivienda Protección official" (VPO's) which are low cost housing for locals?? Really??

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[Kevmand]

Don’t know if it’s relevant but google shengen calculator ......it sorts out how long you can stay in Europe

 

[Brains]

Speak for your self , 90/180 days I think would have been in the very very small print ! In the grand scheme of things a minor point how many punters have second homes ?? I am not the least embarrassed to say I voted to leave thank you .

The 90/180 rule was covered extensively in the broadsheet press in 2015-16.
I had a long discussion with my EU residing sister at the time about it, and explained it would mean she would have to emigrate to the UK eventually. (She still voted to Leave and predictably lost her home)

As an FYI around 1.8 million UK passport holders own homes in the EU, a not insubstantial number.

 

[Minxy]

But even when in the EU if they stayed over 90 consecutive days they became residents. easily sorted by leaving for a day & returning but most didn't.

I'm talking about now though, not before.

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[jongood]

I think you may find that too many folk will be to embarrassed to admit they voted to leave without really understanding All the consequences, I.e. a lot of people only heard Farage spouting how Uk would take back control of their borders, which we all found out to be a load of rubbish, he didn’t labour on points like ‘you will only be able to visit EU 90/180 so hard luck if you own property out there’ etc, etc, there were quite a few forfeits and loss of certain privileges which many had not realised... Just sayin

There would have been some but there were also people on the remain side who were 'voting for things to stay the same' which was also unrealistic.

The 90 day problem was widely discussed on here in the belly locker, but some of us felt that the future of the british economy and thus of our children and grandchildren was more important than our retirement or holiday plans. I certainly would not have been happy under the leadership of UVDL. but other views are available and only time will tell which path was right for us.

 

[jongood]

They're not the tourists who would be there for more than 90 days ..... how much difference do you think it will make to the local economy if Brits only spend 90 days.... I'm guessing some will go to Morocco or return to UK for 3 months and head back to Spain if they really want to or blow their budget in 90 days rather than 180 .... I really don't think the hit to Spain will be big enough to make any change to laws etc.

Of course there are , there are usually lots of ads for villas for the winter season - Autumn to Easter, Spain and Portugal.

 

[MattR]

Of course there are , there are usually lots of ads for villas for the winter season - Autumn to Easter, Spain and Portugal.

There are. But on the scale of rentals, how many are let to Brits and how many of those will now go elsewhere for Autumn to Easter? I'm guessing that some will continue to try and do it under the radar, some will go elsewhere (Morocco, South Africa, Cape Verde, India, Florida etc) and some will do 90 days instead of 180. There will be a hit to the economies but will it be enough to get Spain and Portugal to change their rules / membership of Schenegen or what ever they would need to do; I doubt it but am happy to be proved wrong.

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