Hello, How are fellow motorhomes coping with the new EU regulations on the 90 day stays in Europe, it has certainly has messed up my plans. (1 Viewer)

[Ivory55]

I think you may find that too many folk will be to embarrassed to admit they voted to leave without really understanding All the consequences, I.e. a lot of people only heard Farage spouting how Uk would take back control of their borders, which we all found out to be a load of rubbish, he didn’t labour on points like ‘you will only be able to visit EU 90/180 so hard luck if you own property out there’ etc, etc, there were quite a few forfeits and loss of certain privileges which many had not realised... Just sayin

I wonder what % of the population actually have property abroad or even have a passport

 

[acropolis22]

I wonder what % of the population actually have property abroad or even have a passport

Well, two different numbers, I guess. But the first one is pretty damn miniscule.

 

[Chrisvh]

Interesting, but we're not talking about an individual losing citizenship. The question was whether a British citizen, legally resident in an EU country before 31/12/20, would, under the WA, retain the rights he previously had as an "EU citizen" under DIRECTIVE 2004/38, even though he is no longer an "EU citizen". I think I am right in saying that whilst British citizens retain certain rights they had as "EU citizens", they certainly do not retain "EU citizenship" as such. (Of course, there is no such thing as an "EU citizen" is there? Just citizenship of an EU member state.) Which no Briton now has, unless they are dual nationals. I could be wrong. I'm not a lawyer.

EU citizenship was conferred upon citizens of EU member countries by the Maastricht Treaty. It was legally deemed to be additional to, but not replacing, national citizenship. It allows rights, legal protections and freedoms under EU law that are not enshrined in national legislation. UK law up to, and including The Withdrawal Act acknowledges and accepts EU citizenship.
It appears to have become fashionable among those of a certain mindset to deny the existence of EU citizenship. But it is a fact.

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[acropolis22]

EU citizenship was conferred upon citizens of EU member countries by the Maastricht Treaty. It was legally deemed to be additional to, but not replacing, national citizenship. It allows rights, legal protections and freedoms under EU law that are not enshrined in national legislation. UK law up to, and including The Withdrawal Act acknowledges and accepts EU citizenship.
It appears to have become fashionable among those of a certain mindset to deny the existence of EU citizenship. But it is a fact.

Fair enough. I took a flyer on that one without any fact checking..... Nothing to do with mindset. But it doesn't change my point.

 

[Ivory55]

Well, two different numbers, I guess. But the first one is pretty damn miniscule.

Which means when they voted they would not be bothered about the 90 days

 

[EuroTrotters]

Not too bad here at all

Where is that ?

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[busby]

I've never been but it sounds like a fair bit of the economy there could be run by off the radar Brits so the tax loss could be pretty small. The long term hotel stayers could still go for 3 months and all the long term stay caravan/ motorhomers from other EU countries as long as they like. I think the loss to the economy would be pretty small.

Looking at the number of catering establishments that have opened very close to the big campsites I think the loss would be substantial for them..Brits are far the biggest spenders on food and drink ..Very seldom do you find a French camper in a bar or restaurant in Spain. BUSBY.

 

[busby]

How much do you think UK tourists who spend more than 90 days at one time contribute to EU economies? I would suggest that figure is relatively low so the incentives to provide options for long-term tourists are low on the list of things to solve.

Many sites in Spain are three quarters full of Brits in the winter..Germans French and Dutch prefer to wild camp etc.BUSBY.

 

[MattR]

Many sites in Spain are three quarters full of Brits in the winter..Germans French and Dutch prefer to wild camp etc.BUSBY.

Any guesses how many people would that be? I'd guess that many of their places will be taken by European campers forced to stop wild camping as it becomes more difficult... How many UK campers will make enough noise to get the Spanish Government to take notice?

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[jumar]

Many sites in Spain are three quarters full of Brits in the winter..Germans French and Dutch prefer to wild camp etc.BUSBY.

Some are Busby, the same could be said about a site in Altea being 97% Dutch or some in Mazarron and Isla Plana being mainly German....a site we had a hand in building in Murcia started off being 100% Brits...now it's mainly Dutch....
Totana camperpark which we helped setting up is a mix....but that depends on time of year...
I remember arriving in a coastal site in the Costa Blanc's which had zones that attracted different nationalities....we drive a Spanish registered van....I decided on the best place for my satellite signal...in the middle of the German zone....a few strange looks at first....a few shared beers towards the end of the weekend

 

[The Wino]

But you've never been so having a guess.

I have been . we lasted 24 hours its not for us, but you can't help but notice how the Benidorm economy is totally dominated by brits. Never going to be the main event for the EU but will make a big difference to the local businesses.

I think there will still be lots of brits there just not the ones who would already have been there 3 months and haven't applied for residency. As I say there will still be lots there on long term package deals and a lot in motorhomes etc. They're not stopping the vast majority.

 

[MattR]

The growing number of German middle-aged peeps and pensioners will put greater demands on sun beds in Spain .... I wonder how much we will be missed ...https://www.populationpyramid.net/germany/2019/

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[anniej]

Yea Bloody right Chaser, you tell em, 90 days should be long enough for anyone to go away on holiday, they should get back home and do a decent days work, even come out of retirement if necessary, what ever it takes to "Make This Country Great Again" where have I heard that before?

I have come out of retirement. I'm 74 and just become a Covid vaccinator, and getting paid for it!

 

[Ivory55]

I think if the money people can see money to be made in Morocco there will investment in campsites, winter apartments etc, may be even a marigold hotel. All down to the money

 

[jumar]

Goes without saying, but I will.....there is too much of the same in Benidorm and similar locations..... am I the only person who retired to Spain over 20 years ago and didn't open a bar.....well perhaps I'm not....but many do....there are far too many, and this will hit home,....small business decline...
The Costas are a small part of a huge country, Covid will have a far greater impact than some Brits only having half as good a time as they have had in the past....time wise....
We all need to adjust to a different set of rules...give it time, we all will get used to it....us too.....we have travel restrictions..

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[jongood]

Looking at the number of catering establishments that have opened very close to the big campsites I think the loss would be substantial for them..Brits are far the biggest spenders on food and drink ..Very seldom do you find a French camper in a bar or restaurant in Spain. BUSBY.

I like the French but watching them eat out is hilarious, they are sooooo tight. Some Frenchmen can sit all night with a 25cl glass of Kronenbourg and his wife will drink the bottle of badoit she walked in with, possibly the same one they both took to the restaurant at lunchtime for the cheapest menu du jour that they could find - it probably took them an hour and a haggle before they sat down.

Last year was notable that two of the times we ate out they moved tables to accommodate us

 

[Ivory55]

I always think that, retire to Spain and open a bar. Running a bar , that’s serious hours and work. How can that be retirement ? On the tv shows on relocating always seems to be plenty of bars for sale.

 

[gus-lopez]

Sorry if I am going down a rabbit hole. What is a "Foreign Registered Vehicle"? My German-built MoHo was registered in complete compliance with UK and European law in 2019 - when the UK was a member state. Is it "foreign" under Spanish Law?

Any vehicle not registered in the country you are resident in.**does not include 'professionals' like lorry drivers.
Different rules for them,when working.

abroad or even have a passport

Far more have one in the ik than the amount who do not in the USA

Any guesses how many people would that be? I'd guess that many of their places will be taken by European campers forced to stop wild camping as it becomes more difficult...

Site that Badknee stays on usually is full with 120 for 6 months. This year I believe there were 10.
No the Europeans won't use sites if they don't usually.

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[MattR]

Any vehicle not registered in the country you are resident in.**does not include 'professionals' like lorry drivers.
Different rules for them,when working.

Far more have one in the ik than the amount who do not in the USA

Site that Badknee stays on usually is full with 120 for 6 months. This year I believe there were 10.
No the Europeans won't use sites if they don't usually.

Isn't Spain making wild camping more difficult? If there are spaces in the campsites because Brits can't stay for long, I'm guessing that there will be pressure to get those spaces filled by Europeans.... that will be relatively easy on a local Municipal scale.

 

[marchie]

Interesting, but we're not talking about an individual losing citizenship. The question was whether a British citizen, legally resident in an EU country before 31/12/20, would, under the WA, retain the rights he previously had as an "EU citizen" under DIRECTIVE 2004/38, even though he is no longer an "EU citizen". I think I am right in saying that whilst British citizens retain certain rights they had as "EU citizens", they certainly do not retain "EU citizenship" as such. (Of course, there is no such thing as an "EU citizen" is there? Just citizenship of an EU member state.) Which no Briton now has, unless they are dual nationals. I could be wrong. I'm not a lawyer.

There is such a thing as an EU citizen; one of the points that Sir David made during his summary:

Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, Article 45​

"1. Every citizen of the Union has the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States."

Judgment of the ECJ in Grzelczyk (2001)​

"31. Union citizenship is destined to be the fundamental status of nationals of the Member States, enabling those who find themselves in the same situation to enjoy the same treatment in law irrespective of their nationality, subject to such exceptions as are expressly provided for."

Steve

 

[acropolis22]

There is such a thing as an EU citizen; one of the points that Sir David made during his summary:

Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union, Article 45​

"1. Every citizen of the Union has the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States."

Judgment of the ECJ in Grzelczyk (2001)​

"31. Union citizenship is destined to be the fundamental status of nationals of the Member States, enabling those who find themselves in the same situation to enjoy the same treatment in law irrespective of their nationality, subject to such exceptions as are expressly provided for."

Steve

Already covered in posts 213 and 214.

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[EuroTrotters]

Looking at the number of catering establishments that have opened very close to the big campsites I think the loss would be substantial for them..Brits are far the biggest spenders on food and drink ..Very seldom do you find a French camper in a bar or restaurant in Spain. BUSBY.

Its the same for our villa renters.

Brits tend to eat out. Some, morning noon and night.

Spanish tend to stay by the pool, BBQ and cook in the house.

I am not saying you do not see Spaniards in bars and restaurants. I am merely making a point that, for the 18+ weeks we rent our villa. That usually led to british families eating out. That could be as many as 378 days of meals and bars. or 1,134 family meals. Times that by the average of 6 Guests, 6,804 settings. In just a few months.

 

[acropolis22]

Its the same for our villa renters.

Brits tend to eat out. Some, morning noon and night.

Spanish tend to stay by the pool, BBQ and cook in the house.

I am not saying you do not see Spaniards in bars and restaurants. I am merely making a point that, for the 18+ weeks we rent our villa. That usually led to british families eating out. That could be as many as 378 days of meals and bars. or 1,134 family meals. Times that by the average of 6 Guests, 6,804 settings. In just a few months.

Surely the 90 day rule isn't going to affect villa renters?

 

[marchie]

Already covered in posts 213 and 214.

Your point being? I answered a question that you posed in relation to my previous post.You also replied to another poster that the issue of EU citizens did not alter your previous point that there is no such thing as EU citizens ...

Never mind. On the Ignore List.

Steve

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[MattR]

Its the same for our villa renters.

Brits tend to eat out. Some, morning noon and night.

Spanish tend to stay by the pool, BBQ and cook in the house.

I am not saying you do not see Spaniards in bars and restaurants. I am merely making a point that, for the 18+ weeks we rent our villa. That usually led to british families eating out. That could be as many as 378 days of meals and bars. or 1,134 family meals. Times that by the average of 6 Guests, 6,804 settings. In just a few months.

They're not the tourists who would be there for more than 90 days ..... how much difference do you think it will make to the local economy if Brits only spend 90 days.... I'm guessing some will go to Morocco or return to UK for 3 months and head back to Spain if they really want to or blow their budget in 90 days rather than 180 .... I really don't think the hit to Spain will be big enough to make any change to laws etc.

 

[Littlewheels]

Its the same for our villa renters.

Brits tend to eat out. Some, morning noon and night.

Spanish tend to stay by the pool, BBQ and cook in the house.

I am not saying you do not see Spaniards in bars and restaurants. I am merely making a point that, for the 18+ weeks we rent our villa. That usually led to british families eating out. That could be as many as 378 days of meals and bars. or 1,134 family meals. Times that by the average of 6 Guests, 6,804 settings. In just a few months.

Pretty well spot on local restaurants to us state on menu no Pizzas to be shared between adults etc, a family group of 6/8 would order a couple salads to start and then share Pizza almond with one bottle of wine and water and take 2 hours over it when the owner is desperate to get the table back. Similar experiences in Bars a Spanish couple take 2 hours over a couple cokes whilst we and others are 3/3 rounds in. Love the Spanish and their Culture but spenders in general they are not.

 

[Ivory55]

They're not the tourists who would be there for more than 90 days ..... how much difference do you think it will make to the local economy if Brits only spend 90 days.... I'm guessing some will go to Morocco or return to UK for 3 months and head back to Spain if they really want to or blow their budget in 90 days rather than 180 .... I really don't think the hit to Spain will be big enough to make any change to laws etc.

Brittany ferries used to advertise winter packages with villas and apartments in Spain

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[MattR]

Brittany ferries used to advertise winter packages with villas and apartments in Spain

They will continue to do so. Just for 90 days for Non-EU Brits.

Morocco will pick up some of those who want to be away for longer.

 

[Littlewheels]

Speak for your self , 90/180 days I think would have been in the very very small print ! In the grand scheme of things a minor point how many punters have second homes ?? I am not the least embarrassed to say I voted to leave thank you .

It is acknowledged that about 0.8 - 1.0 million brits have a Spanish holiday home plus possibly the same in France a not insignificant number.

 

[Ivory55]

It is acknowledged that about 0.8 - 1.0 million brits have a Spanish holiday home plus possibly the same in France a not insignificant number.

Blimey there is some money about somewhere

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