Hello, How are fellow motorhomes coping with the new EU regulations on the 90 day stays in Europe, it has certainly has messed up my plans. (1 Viewer)

[jongood]

Will there be limits on the duration of stay and will the Germans, Dutch etc turn them into long-term campsites? I'm guessing they're taking the French model to generate more income for local communities and giving alternatives to increasingly illegal wild camps. How would they benefit UK motorhomers 90/180?

It really depends on the local Authority, I would say the most common is 48hours, but there are also lots of unlimited ones. Normally people who want long term will go to campsites some of which will offer some really cheap off-season deals but there are of course people who over stay on aires and abuse them, there was a guy on the Biarritz one for years and gradually there was a van and I think even a bit of a shed, it was a right mess. He was supposed to be a guy who the mayor had taken pity on because he had nowhere to go but he soon found somewhere else when the barriers were installed!

AFAICS the biggest impact on your plans will be a bit more planning, the main people who will be affected by this are the ones that drive to Benidorm/ benicassim etc and stay for the whole winter, We prefer touring so don't tend to want to stay so long in one place, so we were already planning to go to Morocco more ( Morocco is big we did 2000 miles in 2019, 4th trip and still havent seen it all) and I'm thinking Balkans and maybe Turkey.

 

[jongood]

There are. But on the scale of rentals, how many are let to Brits and how many of those will now go elsewhere for Autumn to Easter? I'm guessing that some will continue to try and do it under the radar, some will go elsewhere (Morocco, South Africa, Cape Verde, India, Florida etc) and some will do 90 days instead of 180. There will be a hit to the economies but will it be enough to get Spain and Portugal to change their rules / membership of Schenegen or what ever they would need to do; I doubt it but am happy to be proved wrong.

In the winter some of these places seem to hav more brits than locals. Spain and Portugal have both been quoted that they want to extend the 90 days for the british, but don't hold your breath.

 

[MattR]

In the winter some of these places seem to hav more brits than locals. Spain and Portugal have both been quoted that they want to extend the 90 days for the british, but don't hold your breath.

I'm not saying that there aren't significant numbers of long-term visitors... I'm just not optimistic that the number of long-term Brits who will be impacted will have enough impact on the economy to get the Spanish Government to do anything worthwhile. They might want to extend it but the implications might be too significant in other areas.

It is possible that some of the slack will be taken up by more Europeans as their population reaches retirement age so we, as Brits, won't be missed as much as we need for a change in the rules. .

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[The Wino]

I'm not saying that there aren't significant numbers of long-term visitors... I'm just not optimistic that the number of long-term Brits who will be impacted will have enough impact on the economy to get the Spanish Government to do anything worthwhile. They might want to extend it but the implications might be too significant in other areas.

It is possible that some of the slack will be taken up by more Europeans as their population reaches retirement age so we, as Brits, won't be missed as much as we need for a change in the rules. .

What no one is considering from the point of view of another country is what the cost of leaving Schengen could be. I suspect way more than losing the spending of Brits who stay more than 90 days in 180. I think it's very much the case that we have made our bed and are now going to have to lie in it.
On the positive side at least we haven't gone back to standard duty free allowances!

 

[jongood]

I'm not saying that there aren't significant numbers of long-term visitors... I'm just not optimistic that the number of long-term Brits who will be impacted will have enough impact on the economy to get the Spanish Government to do anything worthwhile. They might want to extend it but the implications might be too significant in other areas.

It is possible that some of the slack will be taken up by more Europeans as their population reaches retirement age so we, as Brits, won't be missed as much as we need for a change in the rules. .

This is going to be a strange year, because a lot of the people we are talking about are in vulnerable groups so will probably not be leaving their own countries , sadly this is likely to heap even more misery on the economies of Spain and Portugal . Will they be more inclined to encourage vaccinated tourists?

 

[jongood]

What no one is considering from the point of view of another country is what the cost of leaving Schengen could be. I suspect way more than losing the spending of Brits who stay more than 90 days in 180. I think it's very much the case that we have made our bed and are now going to have to lie in it.
On the positive side at least we haven't gone back to standard duty free allowances!

We've also done a lot better on vaccinations and are not in the unenviable position of our nearest competitors.

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[spongebob]

There would have been some but there were also people on the remain side who were 'voting for things to stay the same' which was also unrealistic.

I didn’t vote because I couldn’t work out the truth from the lies, but what would have changed for the worse if we stayed in

 

[Jim]

We are where we are, let's not do the Brexit thing again.

 

[jongood]

deleted after Jim's post

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[MattR]

What no one is considering from the point of view of another country is what the cost of leaving Schengen could be. I suspect way more than losing the spending of Brits who stay more than 90 days in 180. I think it's very much the case that we have made our bed and are now going to have to lie in it.
On the positive side at least we haven't gone back to standard duty free allowances!

I alluded to that... But maybe not clear enough. Spain would have massive issues dealing with traffic from France queuing up and the French wouldn't help much as they would have less to gain and more to lose. The implications will be too significant in other areas.

 

[MattR]

This is going to be a strange year, because a lot of the people we are talking about are in vulnerable groups so will probably not be leaving their own countries , sadly this is likely to heap even more misery on the economies of Spain and Portugal . Will they be more inclined to encourage vaccinated tourists?

I don't think that they would make such a change that quickly. Realist, how many people would flock to Spain for more than 90 days when they've seen so little of their families over the last year?

I'd predict a small surge of peeps heading out in September with most expecting to spend Xmas in the UK with their families. Some would want to spend the next 3 months somewhere warm but not enough in Spain to warrant changing Schenegen.

 

[chaser]

I like the French but watching them eat out is hilarious, they are sooooo tight. Some Frenchmen can sit all night with a 25cl glass of Kronenbourg and his wife will drink the bottle of badoit she walked in with, possibly the same one they both took to the restaurant at lunchtime for the cheapest menu du jour that they could find - it probably took them an hour and a haggle before they sat down.

Last year was notable that two of the times we ate out they moved tables to accommodate us

Must have a bit of French in me

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[busby]

I don't think that they would make such a change that quickly. Realist, how many people would flock to Spain for more than 90 days when they've seen so little of their families over the last year?

I'd predict a small surge of peeps heading out in September with most expecting to spend Xmas in the UK with their families. Some would want to spend the next 3 months somewhere warm but not enough in Spain to warrant changing Schenegen.

There is one here that will be on the first legal ferry to Spain asap.BUSBY.

 

[MattR]

There is one here that will be on the first legal ferry to Spain asap.BUSBY.

Please let us know when that person has got Spain to change its rules

 

[Top Hat]

I alluded to that... But maybe not clear enough. Spain would have massive issues dealing with traffic from France queuing up and the French wouldn't help much as they would have less to gain and more to lose. The implications will be too significant in other areas.

My thought's are not along the lines of countries leaving Schengen, more that they are inventive in granting extensions of stay in their country which might involve a Plane or Ferry.

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[MattR]

It really depends on the local Authority, I would say the most common is 48hours, but there are also lots of unlimited ones. Normally people who want long term will go to campsites some of which will offer some really cheap off-season deals but there are of course people who over stay on aires and abuse them, there was a guy on the Biarritz one for years and gradually there was a van and I think even a bit of a shed, it was a right mess. He was supposed to be a guy who the mayor had taken pity on because he had nowhere to go but he soon found somewhere else when the barriers were installed!

AFAICS the biggest impact on your plans will be a bit more planning, the main people who will be affected by this are the ones that drive to Benidorm/ benicassim etc and stay for the whole winter, We prefer touring so don't tend to want to stay so long in one place, so we were already planning to go to Morocco more ( Morocco is big we did 2000 miles in 2019, 4th trip and still havent seen it all) and I'm thinking Balkans and maybe Turkey.

From what I've seen, The Balkans and Turkey are amazing - (Bosnia Herzegovina more so than Croatia IMHO) but they're not so amazing during the cooler months - they are colder than the Iberian peninsula - and many tourist facilities are closed for much of the off season.

We're looking forward to seeing more of Morocco... There are alternatives to EU countries and they are amazing but they require different approaches, offer different opportunities and mindsets.... And don't offer some of the things that some of us had planned to do.

 

[MattR]

My thought's are not along the lines of countries leaving Schengen, more that they are inventive in granting extensions of stay in their country which might involve a Plane or Ferry.

I don't think that would work within member States... But I'm not an expert on EU legislation. Hypothetically, are you suggesting that I could drive to Spain, stay for 79 days, go to Morocco for 6 hrs and return to Spain and get a boat arriving visa for 90 days or longer?

 

[jongood]

From what I've seen, The Balkans and Turkey are amazing - (Bosnia Herzegovina more so than Croatia IMHO) but they're not so amazing during the cooler months - they are colder than the Iberian peninsula - and many tourist facilities are closed for much of the off season.

We're looking forward to seeing more of Morocco... There are alternatives to EU countries and they are amazing but they require different approaches, offer different opportunities and mindsets.... And don't offer some of the things that some of us had planned to do.

Just be careful to check the limits on your vehicle insurance, not all companies offer full cover.

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[busby]

Please let us know when that person has got Spain to change its rules

Won't be very long,,,BUSBY.

 

[Top Hat]

I don't think that would work within member States... But I'm not an expert on EU legislation. Hypothetically, are you suggesting that I could drive to Spain, stay for 79 days, go to Morocco for 6 hrs and return to Spain and get a boat arriving visa for 90 days or longer?

No, hypothetically if say Spain granted a easy obtainable extension to the 90 days say to 180 you could go from and return to the uk by ferry or plane and not have to pass through another schengen country.

 

[Brains]

Just pointing out that Andorra is not a Schengen country.
It has a decent ski resort

So you could drive down to Andorra, do a couple of weeks skiing, which would not count in your 90 days, carry onto Spain for a couple of months, and then back via Andorra again.

As an FYI, not that you heard it here:
For those who are able to do self sustained multi day high alpine hikes, you can walk into Andorra over the mountains. Last time I did it a few years ago there was no passport check.
So in theory, you could public transport in via the conventional route, get your passport entry stamped, walk out via the mountains, go on holiday, walk back via the mountains and out via the conventional route and get your exit stamp and still have many days in Schengen land.
I have no idea what the legal limit of time you can spend in Andorra is.

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[busby]

From what I've seen, The Balkans and Turkey are amazing - (Bosnia Herzegovina more so than Croatia IMHO) but they're not so amazing during the cooler months - they are colder than the Iberian peninsula - and many tourist facilities are closed for much of the off season.

We're looking forward to seeing more of Morocco... There are alternatives to EU countries and they are amazing but they require different approaches, offer different opportunities and mindsets.... And don't offer some of the things that some of us had planned to do.

If you want to see lots of Turkey go on You Tube Tread the Globe. A couple in a motorhome have been there for over a year now..Beautiful country and people.Shame about their Government.BUSBY.

 

[Onemanandhisdog]

Just pointing out that Andorra is not a Schengen country.
It has a decent ski resort

So you could drive down to Andorra, do a couple of weeks skiing, which would not count in your 90 days, carry onto Spain for a couple of months, and then back via Andorra again.

As an FYI, not that you heard it here:
For those who are able to do self sustained multi day high alpine hikes, you can walk into Andorra over the mountains. Last time I did it a few years ago there was no passport check.
So in theory, you could public transport in via the conventional route, get your passport entry stamped, walk out via the mountains, go on holiday, walk back via the mountains and out via the conventional route and get your exit stamp and still have many days in Schengen land.
I have no idea what the legal limit of time you can spend in Andorra is.

I think you will find Andorra does count. I was looking at Andorra and Monaco and was shot down in flames long before we had even hit the exit.

 

[gus-lopez]

I alluded to that... But maybe not clear enough. Spain would have massive issues dealing with traffic from France queuing up and the French wouldn't help much as they would have less to gain and more to lose. The implications will be too significant in other areas.

They'd welcome the chance to get there own back & dish it out to anything French.The exporters are having nightmares getting stuff in to France especially perishables. I'm told the French are using any tactics to delay fruit& veg so as to maintain there own exports . Same happens to the spanish trucks at tunnel&ferries with all sorts of nonsense with " incorrect paperwork" etc dreamed up.

Just pointing out that Andorra is not a Schengen country.
It has a decent ski resort

It isn't a schengen country but ,like all landlocked by eu state countries ,i.e. Vatican city , San Marino, Switzerland ,etc, they either comply with schengen rules or the only way to enter / exit is by air.

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[P Jones]

Source?
This was done to death on a Facebook group and it seems its basically peoples wishful thinking, not an actual proposal by any EU nation (that would then need to be approved by the whole EU).
There is a possibility that individual countries could relax their vida rules but not sure if the big stick from Brussels would beat the idea out of them.

The only real option seems to be applying for residency or getting an EU passport.

Luckily my Grandad was born in Belfast so I can claim Irish citizenship which will give me an EU passport. It might take 18 months to 2 years to come through and cost £242.71 but I'm a good few years away from having the time to spend more than 90 days anywhere. It is just something to have in the 'back pocket' in case we decide to move/buy in the EU in the future.

i that is me, only thought that belfast. is no in the south, ? or correct me. lucky. .ok,pj.

 

[Northernraider]

Well I can't see any problems, what is wrong with 6 months away a year, how much more do you need?
If you want more than that, why not go and live there and just come here for 90 days, simples.

Not so easy to go live there now is it

3 month long trips are just not long enough.

 

[MattR]

They'd welcome the chance to get there own back & dish it out to anything French.The exporters are having nightmares getting stuff in to France especially perishables. I'm told the French are using any tactics to delay fruit& veg so as to maintain there own exports . Same happens to the spanish trucks at tunnel&ferries with all sorts of nonsense with " incorrect paperwork" etc dreamed up.

It isn't a schengen country but ,like all landlocked by eu state countries ,i.e. Vatican city , San Marino, Switzerland ,etc, they either comply with schengen rules or the only way to enter / exit is by air.

Are the issues with the French border since Covid or have they been going on for years? If the latter, why haven't the Spanish Gov kicked up a fuss with the EU? If the former, I wonder if they would want to prolong issues with the French for the sake of a long staying Brits; I doubt it.

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[jumar]

Are the issues with the French border since Covid or have they been going on for years? If the latter, why haven't the Spanish Gov kicked up a fuss with the EU? If the former, I wonder if they would want to prolong issues with the French for the sake of a long staying Brits; I doubt it.

How do you, or how does anyone know the Spanish Government hasn't, or are currently kicking up a fuss, how does anyone know about anything that Spain is, or wants to do about 90/180, and what plans are being taken to ban overnighting in Spain on a non official location, well perhaps its because you, and many others writing on this post, in general live in the UK, get information from UK based media source, which is normally third hand, believe me there is some openness here in Spain, but like many other places, a closely guarded secret...
There are many postings here on Fun, about what should happen, could happen, but, they just are not going to happen, I know its wishful thinking, what we all did in the past is not what going to happen in the future, just how many Hotel rooms are available in Benidorm, then compare this to how many campsite pitches there are, similar, a little more, no, not at all near, getting these Hotels filled with summer visitors, spending all they have in one fourteen bash is going to get the Spanish economy back on its feet.....remember, as I said before, its a travel restriction not a total ban of Third Country visitors...

 

[jongood]

Not so easy to go live there now is it

3 month long trips are just not long enough.

In many EU CountriesYou can apply for residency that then covers the Schengen area. If I applied and they didnt want to grant it to me then I would be looking at myself.

We ve all enjoyed the freedom of the Schengen area but its not without its problems: Is it right than anyone born in one EU country can just go to live in another without any vetting process? As the law and order side is not joined up and never will be its a great way to bury an unsavoury past. Its also paradise for criminals who can carry on their crimes across a huge area with very little fear of punishment, particularly the drugs trade. And would there be so many people invading the beaches of Kent if they had more borders to deal with?

 

[Spawn_e_git]

i that is me, only thought that belfast. is no in the south, ? or correct me. lucky. .ok,pj.

Covered in my other posts. See #128

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