Half the lights not working... find the fuses?!?

[Guigsy]

So I've had my 2020 Geist i585 for a couple of weeks now. It's a 6m a-class, so everything is 'compact'. And most of the internal lights have stopped working. The overhead LEDs around the roof light still works, as does the light over the kitchen. But the strip lights under the drop-down bed, the spotlights and the lights in the bathroom are all non-functional. Pump and heating are still OK.

I initially thought it was because the battery was low, so maybe LEDs didn't have enough juice to power up. There appears to be 0.3A of power drain somewhere in the system even when everything is off, so the battery was nearly dead after a week of sitting. I suspect it's the Truma iNet system which has loads of extra sensors attached... But when I plug into the mains and the battery charges back up, the lights still don't function. So I guess a fuse has blown.

Geist are a sub-brand of Hymer, so not surprisingly, the electricals are all controlled with an Schaudt Elektroblock EBL 630B and all the manuals are in German. The Elektroblock is under the passenger seat, there are only 6 fuses on the front panel and they are all 20A or more and they all appear to be fine (checked visually and with a multi-meter). So I assume there must be some fuses for sub-systems somewhere... Anyone want to take some guesses? The manual only appears to mention the Elektroblock.

So far I've looked:
-behind the Elektroblock, there's some distribution going on there, but I can't see any fuses
-under the driver's seat, that's just the hab battery
-in all the cupboards, only thing I've found is the 230v panel
-in the lockers, only thing is a panel under one is a rats nest that I think supplies all the tank sensor readings
-under the sink
-under the fridge
-in the 'services' locker, which only contains the frost valve, the boiler dump and the grey water release handle

Interestingly, I found a fuse puller in the bottom of a cup holder in the cab. I'm wondering if the dealership or previous owner also had an issue...?

Am I right in thinking there should be more fuses somewhere? Any clues where?

 

[Stealaway]

They should be in the Elektroblock like this

 

[Lenny HB]

I've never seen an Elektroblock like that before, & I would think there is likely to be another bank of fuses somewhere. When you checked the fuses did you do it with a meter as they often look OK to the eye when blown.

If you email :- Udo.LangATschaudt.gmbh, he will send you an English version of the EBL manual.

 

[Lenny HB]

They should be in the Elektroblock like this


View attachment 509537

The 630 is nothing like that.

 

[Stealaway]

The 630 is nothing like that.

Sorry Lenny -- I've never heard of a 630 Elektroblock


This one then - there should be some fuses in it

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[Lenny HB]

Sorry Lenny -- I've never heard of a 630 Elektroblock


This one then - there should be some fuses in it


View attachment 509540

Neither had I, had to look it up certainly a strange one, just the 5 distribution fuses.

 

[WynandJean]

On the subject of checking fuses I have replaced all mine (car and van) with LED versions of same. If one should blow it lights up and can be seen immediately without playing 'hunt the fuse'. They are available in Halfords etc. but cheaper on eBay.

 

[Guigsy]

Neither had I, had to look it up certainly a strange one, just the 5 distribution fuses.

I'm guessing that some of those fuses must link to another daughter fuse box? I just can't find it!

It appears the Geist I've got is a bit of a low volume/parts bin model. LMC (the parent brand) make lots of larger layouts for the European market, but none of them are as short as 6m. So I've got the bathroom from one model, the lounge and kitchen from another. The layout and use of space is really good, but I think it means that some of the wiring and pipework is in slightly odd places. E.g. the grey water outlet is on the right side of the van, but the handle to release it is in a services locker on the left side. And the Truma boiler is under one of the lounge seats and looks like an exploded octopus of pipework and wiring with a fair amount of wasted space around it.

 

[TheBig1]

Before you pull the van apart, use your meter and double check if power is getting to the failed LEDs. I have had a few strips of LEDs suddenly fail

 

[Guigsy]

Before you pull the van apart, use your meter and double check if power is getting to the failed LEDs. I have had a few strips of LEDs suddenly fail

I had thought that. There's one of those Dometic movable spotlight rails running along the overhead lockers on both sides. Moving one of the lights from one to the other proves it's not the lights that are faulty.

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[Guigsy]

Update: I called CamperUK again. Apparently all the lighting is controlled with modules. I guess that's how they manage to get dimmers working from several locations around the van. There are little blue boxes strewn with wires in several of the cubbies. My German is poor, so the only ones I've spotted so far were to do with tank levels. So a modules that's managing several sets of lights might have an issue. They are digging out some wiring diagrams to see if they can figure it out. I'm waiting for a call back.

 

[Guigsy]

Fixed: CamperUK called back. From the main control panel, select the on/off icon and press and hold the control wheel, it gives an error code of E102. Press and hold and it changes to DEL to delete and reset the error. Press and hold to confirm. Turn the power off and on again and the lights started working. Note that we also tried this when vehicle battery was selected and it didn't fix it... Maybe this will help someone in the future???

Apparently everything is controlled with modules using canbus signalling, much the same way as most of your car sends data and button switches around. Voltage spikes (or possibly the low battery voltage I had?) can make the modules error out.

 

[Lenny HB]

OTT for Motorhome

 

[Guigsy]

OTT for Motorhome

I think there are 7 different light areas in my 6 metre motorhome. Controlled from 5 different multi-way light switches, several of which can also be dimmed. As well as internal and external temperature sensors, controls for heating and ventilation, water levels, gas pressure, pump, 230v charger, battery voltage and current. There's a lot of wiring going on! So I guess they went to canbus. Also, I can get lots of that info via the Truma iNet app... but I suspect the complexity is also why I'm getting 0.3A of current pulled all the time.

My 2012 BMW motorbike (recently sold) had a single main fuse and that was it. Everything was canbus to reduce wiring.

 

[autorouter]

The EBL630 uses a distribution bus called SDT-BUS, and as you say several specialised modules distributed throughout the MH. There are manuals in English on the Schaudt website. There's a manual for the EBL630 and also separate manuals for the various modules. The modules seem to contain self-resetting polyfuses rather than standard melting-metal fuses. Disconnect power for a few minutes to allow the polyfuse to cool down and reset.

The Schaudt site is in German, which makes finding these manuals a bit of a problem. This post might give you a start: https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/problems-in-the-bedroom-department.243428/#post-4559484
The EBL630 is right down at the bottom of a very long list. The module manuals are apparently only available with the installation instructions, which I haven't found yet.

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[Lenny HB]

I suspect the complexity is also why I'm getting 0.3A of current pulled all the time.

0.3 to 0.5 amp drain is typical of any van these days.

 

[Guigsy]

0.3 to 0.5 amp drain is typical of any van these days.

Wow. 0.3A x 24 hours x 7 days = 50Ah.... which is the drain down capacity of a typical hab battery. So if you leave a modern van for more than a week without recharging it, it'll kill it's battery?

 

[autorouter]

The EBL630 is right down at the bottom of a very long list. The module manuals are apparently only available with the installation instructions, which I haven't found yet.

The module manuals are in a separate list, which also includes the EBL630 manual. In the first box, select 'Bussystem SDT-BUS' instead of 'Elektroblock EBL'. There's a list of EBLs and modules - I think you want the KM630, TM630, LM630 etc

 

[autorouter]

Wow. 0.3A x 24 hours x 7 days = 50Ah.... which is the drain down capacity of a typical hab battery. So if you leave a modern van for more than a week without recharging it, it'll kill it's battery?

Most electronic modules in a vehicle are never fully 'OFF', as in disconnected by a switch or relay, like a headlight bulb. They go into deep sleep mode, and are activated by for example the ignition switch or a command along the CAN bus. Manufacturers work very hard to ensure the deep sleep consumption is milliamps, and preferably microamps. If an ordinary car had a deep sleep consumption of 50mA you'd be looking for a fault.

Aftermarket manufacturers don't seem to be nearly so careful. So trackers, alarms, audio and other such motorhome add-ons are usually the culprits here. Apart from changing out these devices for low-consumption versions, the only answer seems to be feeding the beast with solar or hookup.

 

[Guigsy]

I accidentally found some more of the modules the other day. These are tucked up behind the Truma boiler...

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[Lenny HB]

And the Truma boiler is under one of the lounge seats and looks like an exploded octopus of pipework and wiring with a fair amount of wasted space around it.

All modern Hymers are like that, it does waste a lot of storage space but at least you can get at it for repairs without dismantling half the van.

 

[Bessy765]

When some lights in my 2019 Burstner stopped working I disconnected the negative lead from the hab batteries waited a couple of mins connected back up all good. It’s fitted with some little trips which reset if you disconnect the power. Worth a try before pulling anything apart. We have the 630 box in ours