Greater Manchester Clean Air Zone charges and Motorhomes (1 Viewer)

[AnnieB]

Consultation has started on the inclusion of Motorhome classed M1/2 in the charges for all of the GMCR area.
The initial plan excluded some (but not all) Motorhomes from the £10 per day charge but now (supposedly for the sake of parity) the proposal is to make all non-compliant Motorhomes subject to the daily charge, albeit delayed until June 2023).

This zone isn’t just the city centre areas but rural as well and includes all roads except motorways and trunk roads.

The effect on me personally living just with GM (although 2 miles from the next county) will mean a charge of £10 to take the motorhome off my drive, and another £10 to get back on after a short trip away while a Joe Bloggs round the corner can drive his diesel car, towing a caravan as often as he likes - surely that’s unfair.

If anyone else would be affected the link to the consultation exercise is below (I think)

https://assets.ctfassets.net/tlpgbvy1k6h2/3W7gau9Y3hH3RURweHKV8M/6e0e591a5179396798ee79b528c5c804/21-0401_GM_Clean_Air_Plan_Consultation_Document_on_Motorhomes_and_Worsley_Boundary_Sept_2021_FINAL.pdf

 

[Ian-n-Suzy]

I bet there will be an influx of Vans moving onto storage facilities just outside the zone.

 

[GJH]

surely that’s unfair.

Looking at the consultation document, the intention is to treat all motor caravans (whatever the vehicle category) the same. From that point of view, and from the point of view of government policy, it is fair.
From the point of view of owners caught like yourself, it is certainly unwelcome. It was the same in London, though, so there is a precedent. I think I have seen that GM Council (as did London) have said that the temporary exemption gives many owners time to change to a compliant vehicle so it is unlikely that (again as London) they will change their stance
The surprise is that (unlike London) cars have not been included and that does bring with it an element of unfairness. Perhaps the answer to the unfairness argument is to press for diesel cars to be included as in London.

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[Simon Meadwell]

So i now have to buy a new work van and a Motorhome. Or pay thousands of pounds a year for what. I live around Greater Manchester it is the usual tax an easy option.

 

[Simon Meadwell]

And when these vehicles are forced off the road off to third world countries for them to keep poluting the planet. Cant tax them people they havent any money.

 

[Ivory55]

Good old Andy, haha. He is after doing big statement because he is in competition with sadiq for the top job.

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[Puddleduck]

I've responded to the survey on the basis of disability discrimination.

 

[Guigsy]

I think this Clean Air Zone is looking to charge everything non-compliant except cars and motorbikes? Taxis, vans, etc. will all be charged if they don't meet the emissions standards. So it does seem odd that motorhomes would be excluded. Counter argument is... do they make enough difference to bother with? And as with other CAZs, if your van is Euro6, you wouldn't be charged either.

The odd thing about this Clean Air Zone is it talks about reducing NO2. Other CAZs have the aim of reducing particulates. Nitrogen Oxides are produced by engines under sustained load, which is normally on high speed roads. Urban streets don't produce a lot of NOxes.

I bet there will be an influx of Vans moving onto storage facilities just outside the zone.

Depends on how often you move the van. It still might be cheaper to pay the charge than paying someone else for storage and also take an insurance bump. Plus the inconvenience.

I've responded to the survey on the basis of disability discrimination.

It also says that if your vehicle has been adapted for use by a disabled user, you'd be able to apply for an exception. Their argument is motorhomes are large polluting vehicles. If a vehicle hasn't been specifically adapted, I think you'd face an uphill battle that a disability should mean that you can effectively drive anything you like when there are compliant options that would support your needs.

 

[GAVLAD]

Same for Bradford council.
They've been given millions £ by the government in grants to introduce a clean air zone.
Unfortunately, the clean air zone runs along the route that I take to work.
Looking at the map, they've shaped it like a cock & balls (excuse my French!) and everyone thought it was some kind of joke.
For me to take my motorhome along part of the Air valley towards the city centre, I'll have to pay £12 per day - unless I upgrade to a Euro6 diesel engine. This comes into affect from Jan'22 I believe.
Fortunately, I never plan on holidaying in or around Bradford city centre, but may have to plan my route when wanting to join the motorway as the 'balls' is the city ring road which links to the motorway.
This will include private vans, taxis, lorries & bus/coaches.
Cars are not included YET.

What infuriates me is that there are a few companies near my place of work that pump all sorts of smelly fumes out which stinks the inner city out - but these won't be money making schemes for the council/government will they?

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[Wack]

It's not about pollution it's about money , if it was about pollution you wouldn't be able to drive them at all

You think a plumber/ builder is going to spend 15k on a euro 6 van or is he adding £10 a day to his quote , per customer per day

I read somewhere one of the bus companies said they have no plans to change their buses which aren't euro 6, they'll just add the £60 a day on the fares so it'll be the guy trying to get to work who's paying it.

Businesses will suffer, no nipping to Costco on Trafford park for diesel in my work van , I've no intention of changing it, if I get a job in the zone the £10 will go on the bill so pollution = the same, £10 in their bank account

Just been to Burrs Country Park CAMC site in Bury , lovely site but I'd be paying £20 more for a single night and £10 for every extra day than the guy with the V8 Range Rover towing a caravan.

The M60 isn't in the zone so those millions of non compliant cars vans and trucks can carry on as they were

For most a motorhome will be the second biggest purchase they've ever made, Euro 6 came in 2016, how much is a Euro 6 motorhome £50k+, I'll just pull 25k out of my arse pocket and PX to a compliant van then shall I when there's absolutely nothing wrong with my non compliant MH

 

[Guigsy]

It's not about pollution it's about money , if it was about pollution you wouldn't be able to drive them at all

You think a plumber/ builder is going to spend 15k on a euro 6 van or is he adding £10 a day to his quote , per customer per day

I read somewhere one of the bus companies said they have no plans to change their buses which aren't euro 6, they'll just add the £60 a day on the fares so it'll be the guy trying to get to work who's paying it.

Businesses will suffer, no nipping to Costco on Trafford park for diesel in my work van , I've no intention of changing it, if I get a job in the zone the £10 will go on the bill so pollution = the same, £10 in their bank account

Just been to Burrs Country Park CAMC site in Bury , lovely site but I'd be paying £20 more for a single night and £10 for every extra day than the guy with the V8 Range Rover towing a caravan.

The M60 isn't in the zone so those millions of non compliant cars vans and trucks can carry on as they were

For most a motorhome will be the second biggest purchase they've ever made, Euro 6 came in 2016, how much is a Euro 6 motorhome £50k+, I'll just pull 25k out of my arse pocket and PX to a compliant van then shall I when there's absolutely nothing wrong with my non compliant MH

If it was about money, then they'd have charged the cars too. Birmingham have.

£20 is only 100 miles of fuel. Campsites cost at least £20 per night. If you are taking the motorhome out for a few days, it's hardly a massive addition to the expense.

 

[Wack]

If it was about money, then they'd have charged the cars too. Birmingham have.

£20 is only 100 miles of fuel. Campsites cost at least £20 per night. If you are taking the motorhome out for a few days, it's hardly a massive addition to the expense.

You think they won't, give it a year , if it's not about money how come I can still drive it , £20 doesn't lower the pollution

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[Guigsy]

You think they won't, give it a year , if it's not about money how come I can still drive it , £20 doesn't lower the pollution

I think you've proved it will.

 

[Simon Meadwell]

£15 pound a day going on my invoices to cover admin . We can all play silly games the problem is average joe gets the bill. People like my mates boss on about £200k a year gets a nice electric car with the job with no road tax to pay and no tax to pay out of his salary. No chance of that deal for average joe again.

 

[dunnah01]

Euro 6 will need to pay in 2023 so no point changing vehicles

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[GJH]

Good old Andy, haha. He is after doing big statement because he is in competition with sadiq for the top job.

The odd thing about this Clean Air Zone is it talks about reducing NO2. Other CAZs have the aim of reducing particulates. Nitrogen Oxides are produced by engines under sustained load, which is normally on high speed roads. Urban streets don't produce a lot of NOxes.

Look at page 5 of the document referenced in the OP: "The ten GM local authorities have been issued with a Government direction to introduce a Clean Air Plan to bring nitrogen dioxide (NO2) levels within legal limits in “the shortest possible time”."

 

[Wack]

I think you've proved it will.

Not if I can still drive it on the M60 right through the middle of it for free, it's blatantly unfair to include leisure vehicles when cars towing caravans are exempt

 

[Wack]

Look at page 5 of the document referenced in the OP: "The ten GM local authorities have been issued with a Government direction to introduce a Clean Air Plan to bring nitrogen dioxide (NO2) levels within legal limits in “the shortest possible time”."

Drive in greater manchester and have a look how many non compilant cars there are , tens of thousands, charging vans and trucks is a drop in a bucket

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[EuroTrotters]

Our Motorhome is classed as Private HGV

There is nothing in the field "J"

 

[Wack]

There is nothing in the field "J"

nothing in mine , the online checker they refer to has no information either which is helpful

 

[Neil S]

Euro 6 will need to pay in 2023 so no point changing vehicles

Where did you read that ?
Must have missed that part

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[EuroTrotters]

might be looking at caravans!

 

[Wack]

might be looking at caravans!

I wouldn't hold your breath unless you've got a euro 6 car to tow it with , it's looking like they're out to get diesels

I know a guy in wigan that uses a VW camper as his daily driver , he's furious , spent the last 5 years getting it exactly how he wants it now it's got to go unless he wants to pay £60 a week to get to work

 

[EuroTrotters]

I wouldn't hold your breath unless you've got a euro 6 car to tow it with , it's looking like they're out to get diesels

I know a guy in wigan that uses a VW camper as his daily driver , he's furious , spent the last 5 years getting it exactly how he wants it now it's got to go unless he wants to pay £60 a week to get to work

absolute disgrace

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[EuroTrotters]

Meanwhile in Poole Harbour. My Mates just bought a Fairline 45 with two walking great big Volvo Penta IPS engines splurging away. Where is the justice ?

 

[EuroTrotters]

nothing in mine , the online checker they refer to has no information either which is helpful

SO reading this, ours is

Euro III
Private Heavy Goods.

The cost will be £60 per day, but you can apply for reduction to £10 per day.

 

[EuroTrotters]

Here is the answer

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[nicholsong]

When I was living at my house(still owned) in London I was caught by the introduction of the LEZ.

I was keeping the MH away from my road because of parking restrictions, which would not grant a Resident's Permit for vehicles over 2.5m.

I got my MH classed as compliant - don't ask how - otherwise it would have cost me £200 to drive to my house for a night to load up to disappear to other countries.

What I consider iniquitous about these schemes is that they do not take account of occasional use of a leisure vehicle to leave the area. Nobody spends their time driving around a city in a MH.

They could make existing residents, who had been paying Council Tax before the scheme, exempt for say two journeys a year. Pollution would be minimal. The technology must be there to facilitate this. I suggest that should be included in submissions in the consultation.

Had I not achieved compliance I has sussed out a route to my house to avoid ANPR cameras. I knew a couple with a MH who lived just inside the LEZ and sold the house, but I knew a route for them to get in and out.

Geoff (Chairman of the MH 'Ways and Means Committee')

 

[GJH]

Drive in greater manchester and have a look how many non compilant cars there are , tens of thousands, charging vans and trucks is a drop in a bucket

Hence my point in my previous post:

The surprise is that (unlike London) cars have not been included and that does bring with it an element of unfairness. Perhaps the answer to the unfairness argument is to press for diesel cars to be included as in London.

 

[GJH]

They could make existing residents, who had been paying Council Tax before the scheme, exempt for say two journeys a year. Pollution would be minimal. The technology must be there to facilitate this. I suggest that should be included in submissions in the consultation.

That point was made by several people, including me, to both Livingstone and Johnson prior to the LEZ being introduced.

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