Glow plug replacement and difficult starting (1 Viewer)

[Hymerbell]

Having trouble starting...2004 Ducato 2.8 JTD ....have to keep key turned and foot on accelerator for it to start. tonyidle who seems to know a thing or two has suggested glow plugs....are these more likely to be at fault in the cold....I’m in Italy and 28 degrees...of course glow plugs could have nothing to do with ambient temperate but just thought I would show my ignorance. Been to a couple of garages but as Iah noa speako Italiano its a bit difficult...glowa pluga maybe...is it a big job ? Any help especially anyone who knows a good mechanic in Tuscany, Umbria Siena, Cortona or even Calabria or Puglia would be much a appreciated...

 

[pappajohn]

It's doubtful all the plugs will fail at the same time. More likely the relay/module has failed.
Glow plugs work on engine temperature so even in a warm climate they should still work but maybe only briefly.

 

[Beryl]

Found this link
Glow Plugs and Relay

Mentions poor starting on a Fiat X250 and the eventual fix.

Cheers,

Rob

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[wigster]

Or maybe slight air leak in fuel system meaning you have to crank the engine for a while to build fuel pressure ?

 

[gus-lopez]

Penso che i riscaldatori della spina di bagliore hanno fallito. Potete provarli?
" I think the glow plug heaters have failed .Can you test them ?

 

[Two on Tour]

The 2004 Ducato 244 2.8 JTD we had use a Flame Start system not glowplugs.

Ducato Cold Start / Flame Start system explained – Motor-Roam

motor-roam.co.uk

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[tonyidle]

The 2004 Ducato 244 2.8 JTD we had use a Flame Start system not glowplugs.

Ducato Cold Start / Flame Start system explained – Motor-Roam

motor-roam.co.uk

My 2008 did come to think of it. I hadn't realised he was somewhere warm although I'd still check the cold start system. Air leakage won't affect a common rail system unless it's pretty dramatic. Past experience with conventional heater plugs is that starting gets harder as they fail one by one until when only one or two are left at which point a lot of misfiring occurs as it starts.

 

[Hymerbell]

Found this link
Glow Plugs and Relay

Mentions poor starting on a Fiat X250 and the eventual fix.

Cheers,

Rob

Crikey...what a nightmare...

 

[Hymerbell]

Actually I’m not sure I have....his do I find out ?

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[Hymerbell]

Penso che i riscaldatori della spina di bagliore hanno fallito. Potete provarli?
" I think the glow plug heaters have failed .Can you test them ?

If I could find a garage in Italy that was interested I would learn fluent Italian but they just shrugg and suggest another garage....I’m almost tempted to call out emergency services who will presumably take me to a garage who will HAVE to sort it out...

 

[Two on Tour]

Actually I’m not sure I have....his do I find out ?

Have a look at this that I posted earlier in the thread, and if you have not got that then look for glow plugs in the head with a cable linked between the glowplug heads.

Ducato Cold Start / Flame Start system explained – Motor-Roam

motor-roam.co.uk

 

[Hymerbell]

Nope...no white smoke....the exhaust looks quite sooty though...have run for 2 mins at max revs in 3rd gear in case it’s the EGR or something....but didn’t help

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[Hymerbell]

Have a look at this that I posted earlier in the thread, and if you have not got that then look for glow plugs in the head with a cable linked between the glowplug heads.

Ducato Cold Start / Flame Start system explained – Motor-Roam

motor-roam.co.uk

I’ll have a look but all this seems to be to do with if it is cold....I’m in 28 degrees of heat !

 

[Figaro]

have run for 2 mins at max revs in 3rd gear in case it’s the EGR or something....but didn’t help

I'd doubt you have an EGR either

 

[danielf]

Hi

The flame start in a 2.8 jtd should only be triggered below about 3 degrees centigrade. So if it is 28 you can discount it.

If this is a new thing, will it only start will applied accelerarot ? That's odd.

One injector on these can have wiring issues , Also the Tdc sensor on The camshaft can move, and give simar syptoms.

Fuel pressure sounds a likely cause. Any sign of leaks ?

A plug in to a good code reader would help

Daniel.

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[Hymerbell]

I'd doubt you have an EGR either

No EGR ! I’m gonna pop open the bonnet....make sure there’s an engine in there !

 

[Hymerbell]

Hi

The flame start in a 2.8 jtd should only be triggered below about 3 degrees centigrade. So if it is 28 you can discount it.

If this is a new thing, will it only start will applied accelerarot ? That's odd.

One injector on these can have wiring issues , Also the Tdc sensor on The camshaft can move, and give simar syptoms.

Fuel pressure sounds a likely cause. Any sign of leaks ?

A plug in to a good code reader would help

Daniel.

Yes I’d give up my Banner Batteries for a garage with a good code reader....unfortunately most garages even though they have a great big FIAT specialist on their logo just look at me as though I had a Bugatti Veyron

 

[pappajohn]

And I would disagree......
The old mechanical injector pump and lift pump engine possibly would suffer fuel 'back' drainage but as the JTD engine is common rail injection it will have a high pressure electric pump and will be pressurised long before the key is turned to start.

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[Hymerbell]

So....to sum up...what is wrong with it and what should I do ?

 

[danielf]

I’ve just seen how many typos in my last post ....

Will it start without any throttle pedal at all ?

When you put the ignition on (lights up on the dash) without starting the engine can you hear the pump in the fuel tank running ? you should hear it humming down in front of left hand cab seat.

I would look at the camshaft sensor as it can cause your symptoms link here :https://www.picoauto.com/library/case-studies/2004-fiat-ducato-2-8-jtd-poor-starting

Hard to know without seeing / hearing it and Hands on , and assume it was a recent issue and has always been ok.

Daniel

 

[gus-lopez]

When I lost one glow plug here where I live you knew straight away. With a second not heating correctly it was a hell of a job to start.
If left overnight & even in the temperatures we have here , no glow plugs mean it will rarely ever start.
Flame start is different to glow plugs in that it is basically direct injection & all you are doing is warming the intake air to make starting easier.
Glow plugs mean the engine is indirect injection & will rarely start if they do not operate.

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[Neil Bedwin]

A couple of different experiences.....

My 300TDi Landrover will start in anything but the coldest weather without the glowplugs.

My Nissan Pathfinder has 4.7v glowplugs and for some reason when the battery gets flat all of them fail at the same time! Then the engine will not start no matter how warm the weather is.

Easy to meter the glowplugs when you find them. Open circuit from top of plug to earth means they are dead and need replacing. About £40 for a set.