Getting lithium batteries in Spain

[TobyQuest]

Hello all,

My van is down in Spain and I need to replace my leisure battery. Im in Malaga, but can travel. Where can I get good priced Lithium batteries either in a shop or delivered? Not interested in international postage because the size and the weight of the battery will jack up the price a lot I expect.

Thanks

 

[jumar]

Very difficult and very expensive.....I have in the past had batteries delivered here to Spain and have saved a packet.....why batteries, especially Leisure type are so expensive, I don't know.

 

[TobyQuest]

Very difficult and very expensive.....I have in the past had batteries delivered here to Spain and have saved a packet.....why batteries, especially Leisure type are so expensive, I don't know.

Ah i see. How much did it cost you to get a battery delivered to spain from the UK?

 

[Jim]

Don’t forget the Funster network. If you get lucky a courier fee could be as low as a handshake, a couple of beers and a new friend

 

[Littlewheels]

You need to go to Gibraltar, check out the Chandlers I got my Lithium Sterling’s there, price good and you don’t pay Vat so a good saving there alone.

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[TobyQuest]

You need to go to Gibraltar, check out the Chandlers I got my Lithium Sterling’s there, price good and you don’t pay Vat so a good saving there alone.

Great, do you have the contact details/name of which Chandler it was? Ive emailed several of them just now with an enquiry.

Jim - regarding the funster network, is there a kind of official way to make a request or should I just do a general post here and see if someone can help me out bringing one from England to Spain. I'd be more than happy with a couple of beers and can throw in some cash to boot. Heading over there 1 month from now, so would need it from anyone going then or before then.

 

[Littlewheels]

 

[bobandjanie]

You need to make sure your charging devices are compatible, or you could be wasting your time and money. ?
Same with other types of batteries ? they all need charging. ? Bob.

 

[jumar]

Ah i see. How much did it cost you to get a battery delivered to spain from the UK?

The last one was about £30, Tayna I believe, some have outlets here in Spain, well they did have...

 

[TobyQuest]

You need to make sure your charging devices are compatible, or you could be wasting your time and money. ?
Same with other types of batteries ? they all need charging. ? Bob.

Cant most of the mainstream lithium 12v batteries be charged from both solar and the alternator?

Thanks for that LittleWHeels, i am in discussion with Sheppards now

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[Lenny HB]

Cant most of the mainstream lithium 12v batteries be charged from both solar and the alternator?

You need a Solar Regulator with the correct charging profile, for the alternator charging you need a B2B with the correct charging profile.

 

[TobyQuest]

If im charging off the alternator its not b2b battery to battery, its alternator to battery. I dont want to be charging off the engine battery at all, that would risk me not being able to start the van. Its already got a split charge relay built in, albeit from the 90's. I wonder whether that would work or better to phase it out and replace with something more modern.

As far as i know all modern solar charge controllers are usable with lithium drop in replacements

 

[TheBig1]

is it mattery megastore or alpha batteris that has a branch and distribution hub in Spain?

 

[Lenny HB]

If im charging off the alternator its not b2b battery to battery, its alternator to battery. I dont want to be charging off the engine battery at all, that would risk me not being able to start the van. Its already got a split charge relay built in, albeit from the 90's. I wonder whether that would work or better to phase it out and replace with something more modern.

Modern B2B are set up to only charge when the alternator is running, you can't just charge a Lithium for a split charge relay you must use the correct charging profile.

As far as i know all modern solar charge controllers are usable with lithium drop in replacements

You need a solar regulator with the correct profiles like a Votronic or Victron you can't just any regulator.

I suggest you use the forum search facility there are several good threads about charging Lithiums.

 

[eddie]

If im charging off the alternator its not b2b battery to battery, its alternator to battery. I dont want to be charging off the engine battery at all, that would risk me not being able to start the van. Its already got a split charge relay built in, albeit from the 90's. I wonder whether that would work or better to phase it out and replace with something more modern.

As far as i know all modern solar charge controllers are usable with lithium drop in replacements

You will have to have a solar regulator that has either a Lithium selectable profile or a programmable regulator such as the Victron MPPT Bluetooth regulators. If you don't have a B2B charger the high charge capability of the Lithium will kill your alternator.

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[TobyQuest]

I am planning to go with a victron, something like their 150/35. The victrons are pretty easy to set up so it seems.
So the B2B charger is wired between the engine battery and the leisure battery?

Im a bit confused whether I need to take out the split charge relay completely ad fit a B2B charger, and if so whether I would lose some other functionality that currently exists with my appliances in the van, or whether this B2B charger is fitted in addition to the split charge relay.

Here's a picture. This is definitely only a relay right and will therefore be not the best for a lithium battery?

 

[eddie]

It’s not a relay, and it’s now a bit more complicated. It’s a diode splitter, and removal won’t loose any existing functionality at all.

In fact, you may not need to remove it at all, as what you have is infinitely better than what is fitted on most European vans.

You now need to establish the maximum voltage and amperage the diode pack is rated at

 

[Lenny HB]

That is not a split charge relay it is a high power diode, pretty useless for charging the leisure battery as you get at least 1.2 volt drop across them. I've not seen one of those used for charging for over 30 years. You need to take it out.

 

[autorouter]

If im charging off the alternator its not b2b battery to battery, its alternator to battery. I dont want to be charging off the engine battery at all, that would risk me not being able to start the van.

The engine battery has a voltage of over 14V when the alternator is charging it. When the engine is turned off and the alternator stops charging, the engine battery voltage goes down to about 12.8V, even if it is 100% charged. The B2B can sense this voltage, so it only charges the leisure battery if the engine battery voltage is above about 13.2V.

In addition, you can wire in the D+ signal from the alternator, so it definitely only works when the engine is running, and not for example when a solar panel is charging the engine battery.

It's called a B2B because its input voltage is in the range of a standard 12V battery. You can use it to charge the starter battery of a generator from a big storage bank in an off-grid solar/ generator system. In contrast to a solar charger, which won't charge unless the input voltage is at least 5V more than the battery voltage.

 

[autorouter]

Im a bit confused whether I need to take out the split charge relay completely ad fit a B2B charger, and if so whether I would lose some other functionality that currently exists with my appliances in the van, or whether this B2B charger is fitted in addition to the split charge relay.

The B2B replaces the diode splitter. You will need another wire, which is a simple ground connection. Only needs a thin wire for this, it just provides a ground path for the control electronics inside the B2B.

I don't think there will be any other functionality through the splitter. Sometimes split-charge relays are used to send mains charger current to the engine battery, but that won't work with a diode splitter.

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[eddie]

That is not a split charge relay it is a high power diode, pretty useless for charging the leisure battery as you get at least 1.2 volt drop across them. I've not seen one of those used for charging for over 30 years. You need to take it out.

They are still used and still available, we stock them still. The typical voltage drop is about 0.3 VDC

Having said that, the one pictured looks quite old and the wiring doesn't seem to have fared to well either

 

[autorouter]

As far as i know all modern solar charge controllers are usable with lithium drop in replacements

Lead-acid based batteries (including AGM and Gel) have two charging phases. Bulk, which is a fast charge to about 80%, then a slower absorption phase for the last 20%. Once charged, they are best stored at 100% charge, otherwise the lead sulphate crystals grow from normal tiny size to larger ones that do not react quickly and therefore reduce the overall capacity.

Lithium batteries can be charged quickly, with one single phase. They don't need a slow absorption phase. They do not degrade if stored when not fully charged. In fact for long-term storage it's recommended they are at 50% charge. It is no advantage to have a lithium battery absolutely 100% charged, and in fact trickle charging will degrade them. The best strategy for long life is to cycle them between 20% and 80%, in which case they can last decades.

Lithium batteries can be charged by lead-acid battery chargers, but long-term that's a recipe for early replacement. A charger with a Lithium charging profile is best for long battery life.