Getting cold outside ....

MattR

MattR

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We are expecting our first frost this evening, down to around -2. We've drained the water heater and pipes but I haven't drained the loo cistern yet. How cold does it normally need to be outside before it gets down to freezing / cold enough to cause freeze damage inside a mh?
 
BreweryDave said:
0 degrees usually:whistle:
Click to expand...
Sarcy, I also would like to know how cold it gets OUTSIDE before it starts to freeze INSIDE, bearing in mind that the van has quite good insulation. I have emptied my boiler, although I could have put the hot water on and it holds the heat for yonks.
 
Heaters on low on EHU.. I know that's not the answer.. Its my alternative.
 
I wouldn't think -2 will hurt it tonight but I would drain it down as soon as you can. We had a problem with this when we had our caravan.

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The only thing I like about the Whale blown air heating is that it has a frost setting, so I have left it on that. I'm lucky that I can have it on hook up on the drive.
 
Insulation does not stop the inside of the van from getting as cold as outside.

It just slows the effect.

It is not a question of temperature, but time. If it is 0 degrees outside, your van interior will also become 0 degrees. the only difference insulation makes is the time needed to achieve this temperature balance.

The ONLY way to prevent your van becoming as cold as the ambient temperature is to heat it.

That applies to everything from a VW splitty to a Niesman and Bischoff!
 
GWAYGWAY said:
Sarcy, I also would like to know how cold it gets OUTSIDE before it starts to freeze INSIDE, bearing in mind that the van has quite good insulation. I have emptied my boiler, although I could have put the hot water on and it holds the heat for yonks.
Click to expand...

I admit - it was sarcy - sorry:p ....couldn't resist!

The question you ask is more complicated than you think, and various laws of thermodynamics and heat retention come in to play - and Brian Cox I aint!

That said - I would guestimate that if the ambient temperature stayed at 0 for any length of time - that would - over time - reduce the interior temp to the same. its the rate at which it drops inside which is the variable, dependant on other factors such as wind chill and how well insulated the van is. I would endeavour to keep it on EHU on the drive where possible and leave a low wattage oil rad or similar on inside, if for no other reason than to keep everything from freezing - not just water in pipes, but moisture in the air and furnishings etc.


.....blimey - almost a sensible answer - moi:eek:
 
BreweryDave said:
I admit - it was sarcy - sorry:p ....couldn't resist!

The question you ask is more complicated than you think, and various laws of thermodynamics and heat retention come in to play - and Brian Cox I aint!

That said - I would guestimate that if the ambient temperature stayed at 0 for any length of time - that would - over time - reduce the interior temp to the same. its the rate at which it drops inside which is the variable, dependant on other factors such as wind chill and how well insulated the van is. I would endeavour to keep it on EHU on the drive where possible and leave a low wattage oil rad or similar on inside, if for no other reason than to keep everything from freezing - not just water in pipes, but moisture in the air and furnishings etc.


.....blimey - almost a sensible answer - moi:eek:
Click to expand...
quit while you're ahead
 
BreweryDave said:
I admit - it was sarcy - sorry:p ....couldn't resist!

The question you ask is more complicated than you think, and various laws of thermodynamics and heat retention come in to play - and Brian Cox I aint!

That said - I would guestimate that if the ambient temperature stayed at 0 for any length of time - that would - over time - reduce the interior temp to the same. its the rate at which it drops inside which is the variable, dependant on other factors such as wind chill and how well insulated the van is. I would endeavour to keep it on EHU on the drive where possible and leave a low wattage oil rad or similar on inside, if for no other reason than to keep everything from freezing - not just water in pipes, but moisture in the air and furnishings etc.


.....blimey - almost a sensible answer - moi:eek:
Click to expand...
No drinking today then?

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Thanks so much for this post. Just sent Martin out to drain it all down etc and put the heater on frost setting.

We didn't have one night of frost last year, but I can feel a harsh winter coming, I can feel it in my bones!

Also don't forget Funsters to unscrew that dome filter thing on the boiler (no doubt somebody will come along in a mo and give it the correct name!)
 
Not worried about things freezing in the van, but put the heating and systems on today as van hasn't been used for a couple of weeks. Must put some water in sometime....

And supplies.....
 
BreweryDave said:
0 degrees usually:whistle:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the informative reply ;)


Adding to this, as water expands by up to 9% as it freezes, I'm working on the basis that it does not have to be 0c before expansion causes damage and guess that any ice could further restrict water expansion, increasing the likelihood of damage.
 
Mousy said:
Thanks so much for this post. Just sent Martin out to drain it all down etc and put the heater on frost setting.

We didn't have one night of frost last year, but I can feel a harsh winter coming, I can feel it in my bones!

Also don't forget Funsters to unscrew that dome filter thing on the boiler (no doubt somebody will come along in a mo and give it the correct name!)
Click to expand...
So what's this please? Eek bit worried now - on the caravan we had drain taps we used to open every time but not on this version of the truma combi.
The dealer told us there's an auto dump? But should we be doing something else??
 
jonandshell said:
Insulation does not stop the inside of the van from getting as cold as outside.

It just slows the effect.

It is not a question of temperature, but time. If it is 0 degrees outside, your van interior will also become 0 degrees. the only difference insulation makes is the time needed to achieve this temperature balance.

The ONLY way to prevent your van becoming as cold as the ambient temperature is to heat it.

That applies to everything from a VW splitty to a Niesman and Bischoff!
Click to expand...

This is so true. Ours is fully winterised. We have no problems camping out -17 the lowest so far. Never once been cold in the van . Especially with Webasto heating.
BUT we left it in storage a couple of weeks when we had really cold weather. When we went to get her for a trip , a can of coke had exploded in the fridge. It was in the salad box too. It went with such force it made a hole in it!
We always keep the Fridge door open. Also a can had nearly exploded. By that , I mean the bottom had become bowed out instead of in !
It was -10 outside AND -10 inside.:Eeek:

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Last edited:
images

Serious additional question warning (Sorry to spoil the chatty bits)

We're going to Yorkshire over Christmas, planning to visit places on the way there & back, but won't be able to EHU for a week or so. Should we go by train instead, & leave the MH on EHU at home? (It's all drained down apart from the loo flush tank - should this be emptied?)
 
I think the problem is all MHs are so different from each other there is no single answer to a good question like this. The different heating systems, insulation levels and the way the plumbing is routed all makes a big difference.

I can only suggest put a max/min thermometer as close to the cistern as you can and have another one outside it might help to give you some idea of how the temperature inside lags behind changes outside and how turning on the heating changes.

Unfortunately, get it wrong and allowing something to freeze could be an expensive mistake!

An option might be to add some screen washer to the cistern to act as an antifreeze if that is possible. But don't forget the cassette - things in there will freeze as well if you don't add an antifreeze.
 
Mattyjwr said:
Adding to this, as water expands by up to 9% as it freezes, I'm working on the basis that it does not have to be 0c before expansion causes damage and guess that any ice could further restrict water expansion, increasing the likelihood of damage.
Click to expand...

The freezing point of water increases with a decrease in the pressure applied to it. Hence the freezing point of water will be less at high altitude and low pressure - so be carefull if you're up a mountain;)
 
Hmm... What about in use.

The heat exchanger on a carved cascade 2 is close enough to the outside that I wonder if there's a chance of it freezing even with the van in use.. ours doesn't work on gas only why..but it is full of water (waiting for me to get round to fixing it) last time I looked the predicted overnight temp when we are at the Christmas markets is -2... Should I be worried as we haven't planned to use hookup

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Debs said:
So what's this please? Eek bit worried now - on the caravan we had drain taps we used to open every time but not on this version of the truma combi.
The dealer told us there's an auto dump? But should we be doing something else??
Click to expand...

image.jpg
image.jpg


You may be able to see, there is a small amount of water in the plastic dome. Our dealer told us to unscrew this, wipe the inside and leave it in a prominent place so we don't forget to put it back when we use the van. Unscrew it if we weren't using the van and it's freezing. Hope this helps
 
Mousy said:
View attachment 48025 View attachment 48026

You may be able to see, there is a small amount of water in the plastic dome. Our dealer told us to unscrew this, wipe the inside and leave it in a prominent place so we don't forget to put it back when we use the van. Unscrew it if we weren't using the van and it's freezing. Hope this helps
Click to expand...
Thanks so much for doing this - I'm just going to have a look - doesn't look familiar
 
Ours in behind the fire above the water boiler.
 
Mousy said:
Ours in behind the fire above the water boiler.
Click to expand...
Found it thanks - it's in the double floor so easy-ish to get to. It hasn't got a dome thingy but the auto dump hadn't triggered so we've done it manually and just watched the system drain down(y)
Cheers m'dear:)

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