Gemini Alarm (1 Viewer)

[Chrisy]

We have a Gemini alarm installed in our Elddis MH. It works well except for one unusual thing. It goes off every other Monday at the same time 11.37 and then every 3 hours for the rest of the day.

It goes off regardless of where we are. The manufacturers have replaced the unit but the new one still goes off.

Can anyone think of anything causing this. Perhaps something to do with the Peugeot Boxer?

Nobody can seem to figure it out

Thanks.

 

[pyro]

Could be condensation, gradually evaporating as the day wears on. Best bet is to mask off the sensor and eliminate that

Also if on EHU, unplug to eliminate mains interference

 

[Steve N Tracy]

I have a Gemini on my Ducato, it did last year start false triggering it was just a low 9 volt battery in the wireless pir detector.

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[Chrisy]

Thanks all so far. Not on ehu, doesn't use batteries and goes off at exactly the same time so not condensation

 

[eddie]

We have a Gemini alarm installed in our Elddis MH. It works well except for one unusual thing. It goes off every other Monday at the same time 11.37 and then every 3 hours for the rest of the day.

It goes off regardless of where we are. The manufacturers have replaced the unit but the new one still goes off.

Can anyone think of anything causing this. Perhaps something to do with the Peugeot Boxer?

Nobody can seem to figure it out

Thanks.

Which sensors trigger? You should have some diagnostic facility telling you which circuit: Cab doors, Lockers, bonnet, internal, caravan door, external bike accessory loop for example

Once you know that, it will help to narrow it down

 

[barsteward]

please ignore if this sounds stupid, cos i know nothing really! but logic tells me that if the unit has been replaced and it's still going off at the same Day/Time it must be something to do the van........have you tried altering the Date/Time on the van clock to see if it then goes off at a different time?

Just a thought

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[Chrisy]

It is the ultrasonic detector, apologies I omitted that but they are wired in with no batteries. The mystery is why does it go off always at the same times but also why every other week?

 

[eddie]

Ah OK Sorry can't help there as we never use them. They must detect something that makes a noise or blows air around on a timer.

 

[Chrisy]

Will try changing the clock/date as I agree it looks as though it might be a vehicle problem. Can't believe though that I am the only Boxer owner with a Gemini alarm. The manufacturer of the alarm and two different installers have never come across this problem.

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[Chrisy]

Thanks Eddie just grateful for any input.

 

[eddie]

Have you tried sitting in the motorhome at 11.37 on a 2nd Monday and see what happens?

 

[Chrisy]

No, but I will now Eddie. Just that its stored 25 miles away but certainly worthwhile. Will do so in 4 weeks time as I'm away in 2 weeks time. As I said any input helpful it's easy to miss the obvious.

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[eddie]

It would be funny if it were something like a Cuckoo Clock

 

[Ex-caravantugger]

I had a similar problem with the caravan (different alarm) and it turned out to be the sensor battery. No mention of batteries in manual, found it by trial and error. Downloaded a manual for replacement procedure once battery changed as caravan write-up presumed hard-wired to control unit, and no trouble since. A long shot I know but I thought I'd mention it. Good luck. Mike

 

[pyro]

I am stabbing in the dark a bit here, but ultrasonic detectors can be triggered by condensation, as the van heats up or whatever.

Try wrapping some bubblewrap around it, and see if that stops the triggering

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[138go]

The alarm system will be connected to the Fiat CanBus so it may have something to do with that. Only Fiat know what is happening on their CanBus System. Nothing else is going to keep tripping the alarm on a strict time cycle. It cannot be something near by as it happens in different places. I don't think a PIR is going to have an inbuilt clock whats the point. The diagnostic software that the service dept use may be able to give you a clue especially it it's some sort of fault code.

 

[pyro]

The alarm system will be connected to the Fiat CanBus

Not necessarily. The fault is almost certainly within the sensor itself

 

[eddie]

The alarm system will be connected to the Fiat CanBus so it may have something to do with that. Only Fiat know what is happening on their CanBus System. Nothing else is going to keep tripping the alarm on a strict time cycle. It cannot be something near by as it happens in different places. I don't think a PIR is going to have an inbuilt clock whats the point. The diagnostic software that the service dept use may be able to give you a clue especially it it's some sort of fault code.

How would anything on the CAN affect an ultra sonic module?

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[PeteH]

The only similar occurrence I had was with Garage door openers. What happened, was on a quite regular occasion the door would open for no apparent reason, even in the middle of the night!. The "Fault" eventually, after a lot of head scratching, turned out to be the RAF rescue Helicopters from Leconfield. If they over flew our House low on the way to the coast, which happened quite frequently, the Avionics where triggering the door mechanism. Called "co-channel" interference apparently. The door fitting company changed the Openers and "zappers" and no more problem (different frequency). You could try moving the van to another location temporarily? and see if there is some similar happening local to the vans storage, every second week?.

 

[FM02MZO]

The alarm system will be connected to the Fiat CanBus so it may have something to do with that. Only Fiat know what is happening on their CanBus System. Nothing else is going to keep tripping the alarm on a strict time cycle. It cannot be something near by as it happens in different places. I don't think a PIR is going to have an inbuilt clock whats the point. The diagnostic software that the service dept use may be able to give you a clue especially it it's some sort of fault code.

The Gemini is a Modular Alarm not CanBus

 

[138go]

We have a Gemini alarm installed in our Elddis MH. It works well except for one unusual thing. It goes off every other Monday at the same time 11.37 and then every 3 hours for the rest of the day.

It goes off regardless of where we are. The manufacturers have replaced the unit but the new one still goes off.

Can anyone think of anything causing this. Perhaps something to do with the Peugeot Boxer?

Nobody can seem to figure it out

Thanks.

Peugeot and Fiat are from the same stable but there are some differences. Both come from the same factory.

If the vehicle has central locking and the alarm locks the doors then it is connected to the CanBus. Considering the connection is only two wires CanH and CanL why would you do anything else. The CanBus also signals door opening and is monitored by the alarm. As the original OP says it can happen anywhere which rules out something local triggering it. The unit has been changed and the alarm still goes off at the same time which would indicate it's not the alarm module. Only other option would be something electronic in the MH that is set to go off on a regular basis. An ultrasonic unit would not have a clock in it for that sort of timing why would it. Even if it did it must have been unplugged from the system at some point if a new unit has been fitted and as they don't have a battery it would have no idea what time it was.

Has the vehicle got a tracker fitted ..

Does it go off if the habitation electrics are switched off ..

or it's this guy ( The Electrical Gremlin ) .. In which case it may be advisable to move on to something else ..

..

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[Langtoftlad]

....turned out to be the RAF rescue Helicopters from Leconfield.

Concorde used to set off loads of car alarms at Heathrow long stay carparks twice a day .

 

[Chrisy]

It is definitely CanBus I have checked with manufacturer.

 

[Lenny HB]

Concorde used to set off loads of car alarms at Heathrow long stay carparks twice a day .

Funny you should say that I was just wondering if where it's stored was under a flight path but it if it was that it would happen every day.
However it could be some activity outside that is making the van sway. Ultrasonic detectors can be a bit finicky our alarm has gone off a few times when we have popped out for a few mins and heating was on (OK if you disable internal sensors). I think you need to get down there and observe what's going on in the environment but in the meantime why not set the alarm with the internal sensors disabled.

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[eddie]

If the vehicle has central locking and the alarm locks the doors then it is connected to the CanBus. As the original OP says it can happen anywhere which rules out something local triggering it. Only other option would be something electronic in the MH that is set to go off on a regular basis. An ultra sonic unit would not have a clock in it for that sort of timing why would it.

The OP has said that it is the Ultra Sonic unit causing the trigger.

Useless in a motorhome anyway in my opinion

 

[Chrisy]

Yes Lenny will disable internal sensors. The whole thing is so bizarre in that it goes off at the same time but only fortnightly. Eliminated all external sources as it happens wherever the vehicle is.

 

[pyro]

The cheapest and most exposed components by far in the alarm system are the sensors. The length of cabling to them could be inducing interference (as any radio amateur about that) and perhaps a ferrite bead choke (a block that clips over the sensor leads) might do the trick, otherwise gradual elimination of each trigger.

This process of elimination should (in my view) start with the most probably vulnerable sensors. For example, bonnet and hab door, just in case a heavy delivery lorry (dustcart?) is causing vibrations and setting off one of them through vibration. The ultrasonic transducers are prone to condensation problems, easily popped into a jiffy bag to keep it warm, etc. I respect Eddie's preferences, but ultrasonic detectors are used by most car manufacturers, and there has to be a reason for that preference

Not sure why the alarm would be interconnected with the CAN bus save a possible interface with central locking. But we are told this is a sensor issue. Anyway, those are my thoughts, progressive isolation is far more likely to reveal the cause of the problem. Probably just a 50p microswitch under the bonnet or a misplaced magnet on the hab door causing the problem

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[Langtoftlad]

Funny you should say that I was just wondering if where it's stored was under a flight path but it if it was that it would happen every day.

Unless it was a particular flight - perhaps a heavy cargo flying lower, that only was scheduled every fortnight...

 

[Lenny HB]

Yes Lenny will disable internal sensors. The whole thing is so bizarre in that it goes off at the same time but only fortnightly. Eliminated all external sources as it happens wherever the vehicle is.

Forgot you said wherever it is. So got be something in the van.

 

[pappajohn]

The Gemini is a Modular Alarm not CanBus

Agreed, the gemini website includes a list of vehicles it can be fitted to but it states 'except canbus models'
My first thought was the EMU/ECU, which will contain some kind of clock.

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