Garage door damaged - going to Cornwall this coming Sat...HELP! (1 Viewer)

[The_Kraken]

Hi all,

This morning, I managed to damage my large garage door on my Autotrail Cheyenne 696 se (2004). Its not the Thetford door, its the large door.

In my infinite wisdom, I decided to take the door off. Taking the door off led to stripping the outer Aluminium frame off which led to completely dismantling the door.

It's made up of:
Aluminium frame
A core of composite / sandwich / foam panel (one side is Aluminium the other is thin plastic, the core is foam.

The door was knackered and had been bodge repaired before I got it. There was plenty of silicon in there and the foam had broken and this was causing the door to leak. I had planned to 're skin' it at some point but I got a bit too keen.

Has anyone done this job before and could point me in the right direction?

I have two sheets of thin Aluminium (pre painted White) which will do well for the outer skins but I'm stuck as to what to do about the foam? There were a couple of plugs in the Aluminium frame which has led me to think it may have been constructed using expanding foam?

We leave to go to Cornwall on Saturday!

Any help would really be appreciated especially from anyone that's done this job before.

TiA

 

[MR. FUSION]

Hi all,

This morning, I managed to damage my large garage door on my Autotrail Cheyenne 696 se (2004). Its not the Thetford door, its the large door.

In my infinite wisdom, I decided to take the door off. Taking the door off led to stripping the outer Aluminium frame off which led to completely dismantling the door.

It's made up of:
Aluminium frame
A core of composite / sandwich / foam panel (one side is Aluminium the other is thin plastic, the core is foam.

The door was knackered and had been bodge repaired before I got it. There was plenty of silicon in there and the foam had broken and this was causing the door to leak. I had planned to 're skin' it at some point but I got a bit too keen.

Has anyone done this job before and could point me in the right direction?

I have two sheets of thin Aluminium (pre painted White) which will do well for the outer skins but I'm stuck as to what to do about the foam? There were a couple of plugs in the Aluminium frame which has led me to think it may have been constructed using expanding foam?

We leave to go to Cornwall on Saturday!

Any help would really be appreciated especially from anyone that's done this job before.

TiA

A picture speaks a thousand words

 

[TheBig1]

it is not injected on construction. the sandwich is made up and bonded using a sheet of foam the same as celotex or kingspan. this is cut to size the the frame screwed and bonded on using a mastic strip. when reconstructing locker doors before, i have glued up the sandwich and then used sikaflex for assembly and waterproofing. fit the door before the sikaflex sets though to ensure its held square

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[gus-lopez]

What @campa cola said. You can get variuos thickness of styrene , the dense solid board at many builders or insulation sytockists . 3/4" (19mm) would be a guess as to thickness but photo's would be a great help

 

[DaveandJen]

Agree with our campa cola above, a photo is helpful to discuss how best to get over this problem quickly.

 

[TheBig1]

What @campa cola said. You can get variuos thickness of styrene , the dense solid board at many builders or insulation sytockists . 3/4" (19mm) would be a guess as to thickness but photo's would be a great help

they stopped using styrene several years back and now use polyurethane foam board. this has a higher structural strength and better insulation properties

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[ianthebuilder]

I have lined the inside of my bathroom with 100 ml celotex!! It muffles the screams!!! Xx

 

[DBK]

My suggestion would be to make a temporary door out of plywood. This will get you to Cornwall. Make the permanent door in slower time.

 

[TheBig1]

My suggestion would be to make a temporary door out of plywood. This will get you to Cornwall. Make the permanent door in slower time.

the old door infill is a perfect template, should be an easy job even taking time will see it done in 2 hours

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[GWAYGWAY]

Go to the builders supplies and get the pink polyurethane foam probably 25 mm as that is the nearest you will get. It needs bonding to the alloy sheet, a good gun-grade grab adhesive will do it go the toolcentre or screwfix. A good evenly laid layer of adequate thickness. Compressed between two sheets of ply or whatever you have that is flat and strong enough. place weights in all the corners and wherever else you can put them, concrete hollow blocks or similar and a good solid hard FLAT surface, whe it is gone off turn over and do 'tother side repeat performances. To trim use a router with a work top cutter 2" or so and use a guide (IMPERATIVE). Put the old edging around it and finish it like the original door. The orinal door was thwe bit cut out of the flat body panel, hence the sizes and clearances around the edges filled with bits of plastic tat.
Best of luck but you might need someone else to help or punch if it goes wrong.

 

[The_Kraken]

You are all right, I shouldve taken photos. I'm at home now so I will take some photos of whats left of the door tomorrow. However Gwaygway's suggestion sounds pretty spot on and TheBig1's confidence is inspiring!.

The foam core is indeed 25mm so I will nip to Wicks in the morning and see what I can get hold of.

The pre painted Ali sheet I have fits nicely into the channelled aluminium frame so it should be a case of cutting the foam slightly inset.

Thank you all for putting my mind at ease. As DBK says, I can always make a ply door if I really get into trouble!

 

[The_Kraken]

.

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[The_Kraken]

Go to the builders supplies and get the pink polyurethane foam probably 25 mm as that is the nearest you will get. It needs bonding to the alloy sheet, a good gun-grade grab adhesive will do it go the toolcentre or screwfix. A good evenly laid layer of adequate thickness. Compressed between two sheets of ply or whatever you have that is flat and strong enough. place weights in all the corners and wherever else you can put them, concrete hollow blocks or similar and a good solid hard FLAT surface, whe it is gone off turn over and do 'tother side repeat performances. To trim use a router with a work top cutter 2" or so and use a guide (IMPERATIVE). Put the old edging around it and finish it like the original door. The orinal door was thwe bit cut out of the flat body panel, hence the sizes and clearances around the edges filled with bits of plastic tat.
Best of luck but you might need someone else to help or punch if it goes wrong.

Can I use Celotex? But peel off the silver foil?

 

[B-well]

Found this under Celotex blog

Mik Baines September 1, 2015 at 6:19 pm

I wonder if you can help me?

I’m rebuilding a 1974 Winnebago from the ground up. It’s a big job as it seems to have been designed as an oversize sponge, soaking water into its siding material since new I reckon.

The siding consists of a hard foam/fibre membrane 36mm thick with a 5 layer ply bonded to the face. This is then bonded to the inside of the outer alumium skin, giving foam bonded between ply one side and aluminium the other. The inner ply face is then covered in a vinyl fabric skin.

This sandwich is known as Luan in the U.S. I call it inefficient crap in the UK!

I was hoping you could suggest a ply bonded fibre/foam insulation material that I could use to build back the siding. I’d want to bond it too the outer aluminium skin as before?



Reply

1. Lizzie Seaton September 22, 2015 at 8:16 pm
   Thank you for your comment.
   
   It does sound like an interesting project, though as it is something we are not familiar with it is difficult to offer you advice. We do not currently offer any ply bonded products that would be suitable but you could potentially incorporate some insulation between the aluminium outer skin and your own inner plywood inner face.
   
   The products are designed to be used in buildings where they are mechanically fixed so I cannot recommend any adhesives to you. But if you were to experiment with a non solvent based neutral contact adhesive I would imagine this would be successful. There would be an element of trial and error on your part.
   
   Our standard thinner product is called Celotex TB4000 and this comes in thicknesses from 12mm to 40mm.
   
   Kind regards,
   

 

[The_Kraken]

Thabks B-Well. The on;y reason I ask about usung Celotex is that the local builders merchants only seem to stock that type of stuff. I'm having trouble finding amy polyurethane.

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[GWAYGWAY]

Can I use Celotex? But peel off the silver foil?

The foil face will give you a good glue surface but the pink stuff is good as well, pulling the foil off makes for a big mess as is stuck well with a foam friendly glue,'itself'.

 

[TheBig1]

no problem using celotex with foil. it works perfectly as I said, I have replaced a few locker doors this way before. the garage door is just an oversized locker

 

[Stretto Boy]

I can't be of any help because I'm useless with my hands. I just wanted to say that it never ceases to amaze me how many real experts we have on here. There are some really talented Funsters. If all motorhomes were built by Funsters, we surely wouldn't experience damp or other problems!

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[Speve]

The foil will act as an extra insulator so leave it on to help stop condensation etc.

 

[The_Kraken]

Just a little update.

I used 25mm celotex and kept the foil on as advised. I used contact adhesive to bond it to the pre painted aluminium on the outside and for the inside I found a sheet of thin plastic which I covered in mat black vinyl.

I was pretty happy with the result although the Celotex seemed to absorb a lot of the adhesive that I used to bond the frame around the edges.

Ive kept the original foam core as well as the skins as I might make a spare sandwich panel just incase. In hindsight, I should've re used the original foam core as it had grooves around its edge that fitted the channels in the frame. The new Celotex panel resisted the frame a bit because it had no grooves. The original foam core was damaged but I think it would've glued back together ok. It showed signs of water ingress and felt damp so maybe it was better that I didnt use it? The hell if I know!

Any way, the door is back on and looks good. I ran a bead of sealer around the edge pf the frame to help prevent water from sneaking in. The frame is clamped around the sandwich pamel and although I dont think its bonded 100% it feels pretty solid. However, the frame moves a mm or 2 in places. The outer and inner skins sit in a channel in the frame so I doubt theyre going to get away from me.

Ill keep an eye on it.

Thanks for eveyones help an suggestions.

Edited for typos

 

[jockaneezer]

@The_Kraken, can I ask where you got the painted aluminium sheet from ?

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[MikeD]

@The_Kraken, can I ask where you got the painted aluminium sheet from ?

Maybe this

 

[The_Kraken]

@The_Kraken, can I ask where you got the painted aluminium sheet from ?

Blimey, It's some I had in stock left over from a job. I think I got it from a company called Blackburns Metals. It was 1.5mm thick and painted Gloss White.

 

[The_Kraken]

Maybe this

No, that's Aluminium composite. I have loads of that but I used 1.5mm Ali

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[GWAYGWAY]

I can't be of any help because I'm useless with my hands. I just wanted to say that it never ceases to amaze me how many real experts we have on here. There are some really talented Funsters. If all motorhomes were built by Funsters, we surely wouldn't experience damp or other problems!

I used to get plenty of practice fixing leaks on my old van until I did the whole lot in one go.

 

[The_Kraken]

I used to get plenty of practice fixing leaks on my old van until I did the whole lot in one go.

Some jobs will seem daunting to anyone without experience. So, having such a helpful bunch on this site is invaluable and gives you a lot of confidence to have a go yourself.

I did get a quote for a new door and door frame from Autotrail, £295 + carriage + vat.

Oh, and the thin plastic I used was a sheet of PetG (I couldn't remember the name of the stuff the other day)

 

[tonyidle]

Aluminium fabricators use plenty of coated aluminium. It isn't painted as such - the process is more like powder coating and very tough. It is produced in huge rolls and probably explains the popularity of white caravans before the introduction of composite panels.

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