French Border Chaos Postponed Again (1 Viewer)

[Jim]

EU biometric border system faces more delays

A new border control system, which was pushed back to May, has been delayed to the end of the year.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[nicholsong]

EU biometric border system faces more delays

A new border control system, which was pushed back to May, has been delayed to the end of the year.

www.bbc.co.uk

Thanks Jim

There are two things that I do not understand about the system -

1 Why cannot the biometric registration be done at a spot prior to the port?

2 Will there be a separate line for vehicles only containing EU Citizens and EU Residents under the Withdrawal Agreement who are not subject to this process, or will they have to queue behind all the people who are subject to the process?

Geoff

 

[Jim]

1 Why cannot the biometric registration be done at a spot prior to the port?

2 Will there be a separate line for vehicles only containing EU Citizens and EU Residents under the Withdrawal Agreement who are not subject to this process, or will they have to queue behind all the people who are subject to the process?

Thats for the French to decide and apply, it is their system. Will they care about the queues, probably not.

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[Brains]

Thats for the French to decide and apply, it is their system. Will they care about the queues, probably not.

To be fair, it's an EU system (which is a copy of the existing US system).
It's not down to just the French, as the same system will apply on the ferries to Spain and Holland.

The difference on the Spanish and Holland ferries is they have the room to deal with the traffic the system causes by having the checks done at their ports as only one ship arrives at a time and it's several hours before the next one.

 

[jongood]

tbf its a big ask, lots of entry and exit points, a lot of different regimes and a commit ee of 27 who can vetoe it at any point

 

[Jim]

To be fair, it's an EU system (which is a copy of the existing US system).
It's not down to just the French, as the same system will apply on the ferries to Spain and Holland.

At Dover it's down to the French, it's their system not ours. We'll just have to get used to it and put up with the queues. It's no worry in a van, Ports are always "Hurry up and Wait" anyway. In a car or truck it will be a pain

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[Brains]

At Dover it's down to the French, it's their system not ours. We'll just have to get used to it and put up with the queues. It's no worry in a van, Ports are always "Hurry up and Wait" anyway. In a car or truck it will be a pain

True.

The problem is Dover has two French passport checking booths.
They need 20 more, but there is no room to build them, and even if they did, there is no space for the queues of vehicles.

The only solution is to spread the the problem:

Either open Shearness for freight, and Ramsgate and Folkstone for smaller vehicles, and subsidise companies to run the service until it breaks even. (After dredging the ports and paying to update the infrastructure).

or

Build massive parking/clearance area(s) somewhere close and then have a dedicated road into Dover port &/or the other local port.
There are three places that have been identified for this, Manston Airport near Ramsgate port, Westenhanger to the west of Folkestone port and Guston just to the north of Dover port. All are close to Dover.
Possibly all three will be needed. There is however currently zero budget to pay for all this.

Meantime the M20 will be used as a sticking plaster 'solution', and a nightmare for the residents of Kent and drivers stuck in queues where time is measured in days.

As you say, at least motorhomes are better off than everyone else, we have a loo, a bed and food.

 

[jongood]

True.

The problem is Dover has two French passport checking booths.
They need 20 more, but there is no room to build them, and even if they did, there is no space for the queues of vehicles.

The only solution is to spread the the problem:

Either open Shearness for freight, and Ramsgate and Folkstone for smaller vehicles, and subsidise companies to run the service until it breaks even. (After dredging the ports and paying to update the infrastructure).

or

Build massive parking/clearance area(s) somewhere close and then have a dedicated road into Dover port &/or the other local port.
There are three places that have been identified for this, Manston Airport near Ramsgate port, Westenhanger to the west of Folkestone port and Guston just to the north of Dover port. All are close to Dover.
Possibly all three will be needed. There is however currently zero budget to pay for all this.

Meantime the M20 will be used as a sticking plaster 'solution', and a nightmare for the residents of Kent and drivers stuck in queues where time is measured in days.

As you say, at least motorhomes are better off than everyone else, we have a loo, a bed and food.

I noticed all the concrete lego blocks have been taken away again last week.

 

[The Wino]

Having had the pleasure of several lengthy waits at UK airport passeport checks despite them knowing exactly how many people to expect I think we're hardly in a position to criticize!
At least they might have an idea who's in the country.

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[Coastal Cruiser.]

If they are as slow as American passport control when they get it up and running were all in the shit

 

[Brains]

If they are as slow as American passport control when they get it up and running were all in the shit

It's basically the same system as the US system, and will be no faster.

Dover passport control is working on 10 mins per car of 4 people.
Each ferry can take between 1,500 and 2,000 people.
Even if you got it down to 2 mins per person that is 66 hrs of passport time per sailing.
If you had 30 manned passport booths, then you could load one ship per hour, 24 ship sailing per day, if you operated 24hrs per day.

At high season there are 50 sailings per day. So realistically you need about 120 booths, manned 24hrs per day in high season. (That takes a minimum of 840 staff, and that is just Dover)

There are two booths .......
(and no room any more ...)

 

[nicholsong]

I for one will not be visiting UK until this is sorted out, because we are both exempt from this EES system and do not want to queue behind those who are subject to it.

I imagine that a lot of EU Citizens will feel the same and not visit UK because of potential queues.

I wonder what the UK tourism organizations are doing about it.

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[Chris]

I wonder what the UK tourism organizations are doing about it.

I think we will survive

 

[Jim]

At least they might have an idea who's in the country.

They have no idea who is in their country. IMO that's a massive downside of the Schenzen

 

[dash300]

They have no idea who is in their country. IMO that's a massive downside of the Schenzen

They know Brits are there and that is all that matters!

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[Brains]

They have no idea who is in their country. IMO that's a massive downside of the Schenzen

It does not matter that much.

Why do you think they all want to come to the UK (other than they may speak a smattering of English)

In Italy, France or Germany, you try to do anything 'official' such as getting a job, or renting a flat or opening a bank account, or paying a utility bill or getting a mobile phone.
No local ID, not possible.

In the UK we have no ID card.
So you can do all the above with a passport from any country, it just proves who you are, not whether you have the right to be in the UK.

Not that I'm suggesting it, but imagine a situation where you could not even buy a bus or train ticket without ID.
As China has found, it stops people doing very much at all. You can seal up entire sectors by blocking their ID's for travel.

 

[EuroTrotters]

as i have said many times on here

travel from amseterdam with a van full of Coke (not the pepsi cola). No Passport required, just ID and try and wing it.

Get a Dihngy to the UK from France and the French dont give a flying and wave aurevoir ±

Try n get an M&S sarnie past the french customs with cheddar init and your snookered.

I truly wish I could of taken french or Spanish residency during the transiton period and I wouldnt besta here moaning.

 

[denisejoe]

Either open Shearness for freight, and Ramsgate and Folkstone for smaller vehicles, and subsidise companies to run the service until it breaks even. (After dredging the ports and paying to update the infrastructure).

You obviously don't know Sheerness - the infrastructure is not in place to take loads of vehicles! It's bad enough with just the car transporters using the port.

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[The Wino]

They have no idea who is in their country. IMO that's a massive downside of the Schenzen

I suppose I should have said that they will know who's in the Schengen area rather than a particular country as they've decided that free movement is more important wheras we've decided we want out but until recently didn't bother keeping track of people coming and going ( we might still not keep records now). I think it would be a big improvement if we had a similar system at our borders ideally one integrated with the Schengen one and id cards here.

 

[Jim]

I suppose I should have said that they will know who's in the Schengen area rather than a particular country as they've decided that free movement is more important wheras we've decided we want out but until recently didn't bother keeping track of people coming and going ( we might still not keep records now). I think it would be a big improvement if we had a similar system at our borders ideally one integrated with the Schengen one and id cards here.

Didn't keep track? I've had my passport checked in and out of this country since I've had a passport. Never has it not been checked.

 

[The Wino]

Didn't keep track? I've had my passport checked in and out of this country since I've had a passport. Never has it not been checked.

Looks like they weren't until 2018 at least

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...rds-of-600000-people-missing-watchdog-reveals

Yes they do always look at your passeport and scan it how well the systems keep records of the information collected none of us know.

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[royandsharont]

You obviously don't know Sheerness - the infrastructure is not in place to take loads of vehicles! It's bad enough with just the car transporters using the port.

As an aside
After leaving home port of London Docks due to industrial problems I once berthed in Sheerness circa 1974/5 in a reasonably large cargo ship. We were in front of the ferries. Because if the rise & fall if the tide our mooring ropes could not be as tight as we would have liked and when the ferries came past us leaving the berth at speed we broke some of our mooring ropes on occasions. We moved to Southampton not long after.

 

[royandsharont]

I suppose I should have said that they will know who's in the Schengen area rather than a particular country as they've decided that free movement is more important wheras we've decided we want out but until recently didn't bother keeping track of people coming and going ( we might still not keep records now). I think it would be a big improvement if we had a similar system at our borders ideally one integrated with the Schengen one and id cards here.

Many years ago I was working alongside HM Immigration service and at the Hull ferry terminal their staff always checked every passenger’s passport in and out. Then they had staffing reductions so checked those arriving but depending on manpower did not always go to the port for departures, so there was no record of who was leaving and if within their visa allowance.

 

[Widge]

If they are as slow as American passport control when they get it up and running were all in the shit

Last time I went to the states 2016, i went from Dublin, brilliant, us customs and immigration have there own area at Dublin, we were all processed quickly and efficiantly, then landed at a domestic terminal in the US.

Normaly you are tired from the travelling then have to face immigration and panicking about catching onward transport.

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[The Wino]

Last time I went to the states 2016, i went from Dublin, brilliant, us customs and immigration have there own area at Dublin, we were all processed quickly and efficiantly, then landed at a domestic terminal in the US.

Normaly you are tired from the travelling then have to face immigration and panicking about catching onward transport.

If we have a true " special relationship" with the US how come they have that in Ireland and we don't here? I've always thought that the special relationship is more special for them than us.

 

[Widge]

If we have a true " special relationship" with the US how come they have that in Ireland and we don't here? I've always thought that the special relationship is more special for them than us.

Didn't you know, there are at least 55 million irish in the US

 

[The Wino]

Didn't you know, there are at least 55 million irish in the US

Are they Irish nationals or of Irish descent?. I know there are a lot of people of Irish descent in the US and thats the reason why they largely funded the IRA. What I am questioning is whether the much quoted special relationship between the US and UK is special both ways and if we do have a US trade deal at some point will it be equally beneficial.
I suspect a bit of a drift from the op although of course one reason why we could face border chaos with France is because we have decided we want a border rather than free movement partly in order to have freer trade with other countries.

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[Widge]

Obviously an airport facility is easy than land, but probably, Dublin airport and the Irish government invested properly to provide the facilities.

I know space is an issue at Dover but government only provided a small percentage of the requested funding.

But of course it isn't needed, as leaving was going to give us everything we had before, without any of the restrictions.

 

[stevee2]

EU still having problems with the introduction of the Etias system, Saves us 6 euros each this year , more to spend on a few drinks

 

[nicholsong]

Sorry to rain on your parade, but as ETIAS will last for 3 years it only saves you €2 each this year.

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