Flat Battery/Removal Problem (1 Viewer)

[Kool Kroozer]

Peugeot Boxer cab 2013 Autocruise Rythm model - went to the van last week at the storage place and the battery didn't have enough juice in it to turn the motor over, a little like another thread regarding the battery going flat - I rang Peugeot to ask if it was ok to remove the battery so i could put it on charge, they said "NO as it could cause damage" - "try to jump it off the points under the bonnet" ...Now i remember very well when we purchased this van from Spinney they advised us "NOT TO JUMP IT FROM THESE POINTS AS IT CAN DAMAGE THE ECU" - So i rang Spinney and asked them if removing the battery was ok - "YES" came the reply, we do it all the time to about 30 MH otherwise they would all go flat... at this point i no matter what i did it was going to be wrong lol... so i decided to remove the engine battery, bring it home and charge it - took it back yesterday and fitted/started the van no problem - until i noticed a warning light on the dash display "EDB Failure" "ABS" "Engine management light on - speedo not working, Airbag light on Grrr - drove it home really pissed off as we planned to have a day out over the Peaks, got in it to go out and all the warning lights had gone an all working again... Got to castleton an had a bite to eat - got back in the van an all the lights back on again - Grrr - as luck would have it i stopped for some fuel right opposite a Peugeot Dealer - what the heck i gonna be a cheaky chap and go over - they looked at it FOC with the diagnostic computer and deleted all the faults and reset it all - all was ok again - went out to the van again this morning and all the warning lights back on again ! May i just say i have not revealed to Peugeot that i removed the battery, i just told them it was really low in power and only just turned over and started... Has anyone else had this problem ? If jump starting and removing the Battery is not an option how the hell you supposed to charge the battery if you have no 240v at a storage place ?

 

[DanielFord]

Silly question, is the earth terminal correctly seated on the battery, or did you damage it when refitting?

 

[pappajohn]

NO as it could cause damage" - "try to jump it off the points under the bonnet" ...Now i remember very well when we purchased this van from Spinney they advised us "NOT TO JUMP IT FROM THESE POINTS AS IT CAN DAMAGE THE ECU

And how do you replace the battery if it causes damage by removing it?

The battery point under the bonnet is there for that very purpose.

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[Techno]

Yes indeed the jump points were deliberately put under the bonnet because of the difficulty of accessing the battery.

 

[Kool Kroozer]

Silly question, is the earth terminal correctly seated on the battery, or did you damage it when refitting?

Yes the earth lead is seated correctly, I am just wondering now if it has damaged the ECU... The battery in question is a new one and was replaced by Peugeot a few months ago - It is booked in for Wednesday with the dealership but i have a feeling if they reset the ECU it will just keep doing this.

 

[Kool Kroozer]

And how do you replace the battery if it causes damage by removing it?

The battery point under the bonnet is there for that very purpose.

Exactly my point PJ, wish i would have jumped it now - but even so would there not come a time when i would have to remove the battery myself - so if this is the case the outcome is inevitable

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[DanielFord]

I have to say it is sounding like a wiring issue, rather than an ECU fault. As has been stated, it simply cannot be true that removing the battery damages the ECU. The fact that the faults can be cleared, and randomly come and go leads me to this conclusion. Are the fault codes sensible, or seemingly nonsense?
I'd be inclined to test the earth integrity from the battery to the chassis using a multi meter.

 

[pappajohn]

In my experience, When jump starting do ot try to start immediately after connecting the leads and with the donor engine running.
There's a chance the high voltage could spike the ECU.
Instead, connect the jump leads with ignition off on dead van, start doner engine and run for 10/15 minutes to put some charge into the dead battery.
This has the effect of smoothing out the available power once a start is attempted.

never connect or disconnect a battery, flat or not, with the ignition turned on.

 

[andy63]

hi sorry to hear your problems after removing the battery.. heard similar tales and had the odd thing happen with a car I had after removing the battery , but nothing like yours with fault codes.
did you have the ignition on just before disconnecting the battery..only asking because on the transit I have now it takes a min or so for the bcm to shut down and i always leave it 5 min before disconnecting and the same again before trying to start.. don't know for sure it matters but never had to do anything other than re code the radio, and sometimes the door locks cycle a time or two..
sometimes it takes a certain number of drive cycles for faults to clear.... hope it all gets sorted
ta andy

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[Badknee]

Ok, let's think about this. Would a manufacturer spend money on fitting jump points if it was going to damage the vehicle in any way? I think not.
What Pappajohn says is true, let the doner vehicle pass some charge into the flat battery for a while with the doner running about 1500 to 2000 rpm.

 

[Techno]

I would be checking the battery voltage, new or not if it's been overdischarged it could be damaged. Check it before starting and again an hour after a run.

 

[Neckender]

I Don't know if this works but on another forum someone said when battery is disconnected touch together the battery positive and negative together, and this removes codes from ecu, then reconnect battery as normal.

John.

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[chatteris]

I Don't know if this works but on another forum someone said when battery is disconnected touch together the battery positive and negative together, and this removes codes from ecu, then reconnect battery as normal.

I think thats called a hard reset. I have a mate that works at a jag specialist and they often do it

 

[Kool Kroozer]

When the battery was removed the ignition key was on my trouser belt, the battery was about 12.8v when i fit it and went up to around 13.8v when the engine was running, strange thing was when all this happened was the time on the dash display and the time on the stereo was correct ! which was a little surprising as i thought i would have had to reset them.

 

[Techno]

12.8 was after you charged it yes and the 13.8 is the alternator voltage. Have you checked the voltage since?
As said in another thread you can measure the voltage at the fag lighter socket with ignition on. Or at the jump terminal

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[Kool Kroozer]

voltage right now (just checked) 12.6v

 

[GWAYGWAY]

This is a problem with most modern cars, You need a battery saver that plugs into the permanent live accessory socket (cigarette lighter) and it keeps the voltage across the system whilst the battery is out.
It also keeps the radio code alive as well as the ECU. I have not heard of problems jumping the vehicle as they even give me a special jump point to attach the leads to on my Transit, It is just a good easy access point to get to under the bonnet.

 

[irnbru]

Exactly my point PJ, wish i would have jumped it now - but even so would there not come a time when i would have to remove the battery myself - so if this is the case the outcome is inevitable

Well I wish we HADNT had the AA jump ours now. Our control panel regarding battery status no longer works

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[Kool Kroozer]

Yes Andy, 12.8 was the reading i took before i reconnected the battery and 13.8 was with the engine running, as said above its now 12.6v without engine running.

 

[gus-lopez]

In my experience, When jump starting do ot try to start immediately after connecting the leads and with the donor engine running.
There's a chance the high voltage could spike the ECU.
Instead, connect the jump leads with ignition off on dead van, start doner engine and run for 10/15 minutes to put some charge into the dead battery.
This has the effect of smoothing out the available power once a start is attempted.

never connect or disconnect a battery, flat or not, with the ignition turned on.

Quite correct. In Citroen manuals it specifically states that the leads should be connected to the car . The slave vehicle started & left running for at least 15 minutes before attempting to start to prevent ecu damage.
Additionally there is also a specific way of disconnecting & removing /replacing the battery. Can't remember all of it but to remove you put keys in ignition , turn on , drop drivers window. ( What you do if the battery is completely dead I've no idea ?) then turn off ignition, shut drivers door. On no account must drivers door be opened whilst battery is being changed.
Then remove & replace battery. Then there is some process , which I cannot remember in full, where you lean in through drivers window, turn on ignition & press this, flick that , etc; Apparently this resets the ecu. Then once all this is correct as per handbook , you then turn off ignition & can open door.All this was in the handbooks in both Spanish & the English manual.
I have no doubt that all the other manufacturers have similar systems.I couldn't believe it.

 

[pappajohn]

I Don't know if this works but on another forum someone said when battery is disconnected touch together the battery positive and negative together, and this removes codes from ecu, then reconnect battery as normal.

John.

No it won't work

The ECU uses non-volatile memory.
It retains its memory even when removed from all power.
ie removed from vehicle.
If it didn't it would need to relearn all parameters after every start up.

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[irnbru]

No it won't work

The ECU uses non-volatile memory.
It retains its memory even when removed from all power.
ie removed from vehicle.
If it didn't it would need to relearn all parameters after every start up.

What does ECU stand for and how do you fix it, think this might be our problem

 

[Techno]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_control_unit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_control_unit