Flat battery causes (1 Viewer)

[Andy Bramhall]

So... went to get th van today and it wouldn't start.

It almost turned over first time and then second time nothing. Assuming this must be flat battery.

We have had it for a few months with no battery problems.
I last drove it two weeks ago - although I went to see it one week ago and started the engine just to check it was ok (!) but didn't drive it.
I am guessing that was a bad move as starting it will have drained the battery and then not driving will not have replaced that charge.

Is this normal though - for battery to be flat after just that?

Only other thing I noticed was that I had left the electrical control panel on in the habitation area and there may have been one or two lights on in the hab area.
Aren't the habitation battery and the vehicle battery totally separate systems though?

Thanks so much for any help you can give.

Andy Bramhall

p.s. It is a 2007 N-B on an Iveco 3.0.

 

[WillH]

I have a 2008 van and have just changed my battery for the second time, they don't last forever.

 

[Zigisla]

There are many variables that can cause a flat battery. Do you have an alarm and / or a tracker as these are big battery drainers? Also Radio memory can be a drain as is the clock. You are correct with Hab and Cab batteries being separate systems, so leaving the hab on will only flatten that one. Do you have solar? Cab batteries will flatten over a few weeks and many others on here have either solar connected to cab as well as hab, or they have a battery master system - I have one, that uses the hab to trickle charge the cab when needed.

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[Andy Bramhall]

The seller told us that they had a new battery fitted a couple of months before we bought the van - so it supposed to be almost new.

Do you think a new battery should be holding its charge for longer than this?

 

[Andy Bramhall]

Also - once I get it started - how far do I need to drive to fully charge the battery again?

 

[Andy Bramhall]

There are many variables that can cause a flat battery. Do you have an alarm and / or a tracker as these are big battery drainers? Also Radio memory can be a drain as is the clock. You are correct with Hab and Cab batteries being separate systems, so leaving the hab on will only flatten that one. Do you have solar? Cab batteries will flatten over a few weeks and many others on here have either solar connected to cab as well as hab, or they have a battery master system - I have one, that uses the hab to trickle charge the cab when needed.

Yes - there is a Cat 1 Sigma alarm and immobiliser.

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[treetops1]

Sounds like a duff battery .Before replacing, take it off and top it up if nec ,give it a charge and see what you get .You may have to get your money out lol.

 

[Andy Bramhall]

Do you think this sounds like I have some kind of bigger problem or is everyone having to take their vehicle out every couple of weeks to keep the battery charged?

Also - the control panel was showing the cab battery as 11.0U. Does that mean 11 volts?

At what voltage do you need to take the van out for a recharge of cab battery?

 

[WillH]

My battery last only three or four weeks before needing a charge.

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[Zigisla]

Yes - there is a Cat 1 Sigma alarm and immobiliser.

Check with your handbook and see the current draw when armed. Even small draws add up over the weeks. 11 Volts is flat as a flat thing. You will need to give it a good charge - Via EHU or remove it ( no alarm set!! ), but may well have damaged it too far. Fully charge first in case it was new and can be saved. Do not leave it discharged too much longer.

 

[DavidG58]

I agree 11V is pretty much had it, might recharge but probably doubtful

Something I would wonder about, in its 10 year life has someone 'messed' with the wiring, connected something to what seemed a good / simple option, but connected to cab battery not hab maybe?

I found out the hard way that one of our cigar lighter sockets at the cab end of our Mercedes Hymer is live at all times, so plugging anything into that left it on all the time when parked

Hope you get sorted, might need properly testing though to check for any drain, although you could monitor the volts yourself when it has been started and charged. Does your controller show Amps being drawn on the cab battery? mine doesn't but these all seem different, I can see amps drawn on the leisure battery which is really useful

 

[Andy Bramhall]

Thanks for all the advice. Nice RAC man came and jump started and tested everything. All working fine and charging properly. He said it would be fine with a 24hour bench charge - which I have just done.

Can you guys tell me - how effective are solar panel trickle chargers in the winter? It would help if the van could be left for three or four weeks sometimes.

Also - we currently have a solar panel but it is connected to the leisure battery. Is it pretty easy to reroute that to the vehicle battery?

Thanks again!

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[funflair]

Hi Andy

Two weeks would be about the limit for our Flair without any solar (it's in a shed) we also have a Sigma alarm, as others have said your Leisure and starter should be completely separate so whatever you left on should not have drained the cab/starter battery, if you have the CBE control system you might find that it has a progressive shut down of various habitation electric functions in the event of low leisure battery voltage.

If you have solar on the Leisure batteries you could fit a Eddie Vanbitz Battery master, it connects between the leisure and cab battery and as soon as the cab battery gets 0.7 volts lower than the Leisure batteries it will send some charge to the cab battery ensuring that it always starts and saving your starter battery from damage by being discharged too low.

If you have the same CBE connection box as us fitting is dead easy as the two battery 12v+ are next to each other.

have a read here if you are interested.
http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/vanbitz-battery-master-fitted.143720/



Martin

 

[Lorryman100]

Thanks for all the advice.

Can you guys tell me - how effective are solar panel trickle chargers in the winter? It would help if the van could be left for three or four weeks sometimes.

Thanks again!

Did not run the engine on our van from the end of November until the beginning of February when it was in storage. 2 x 100w solar panels charging both the leisure and engine battery kept them both topped up. And the vans storage pitch is in sunny Scotland.

 

[Andy Bramhall]

Martin - thank you so much for that recommendation. Have been scratching my head all weekend trying to work out best solution - and that looks brilliant.

I don't want to fit this myself. Do you think it would be best to get this done by motorhome service centre or by an auto-electrician?
I'm just wondering if auto-electricians will have done many of these...

Thanks again

Andy

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[funflair]

Martin - thank you so much for that recommendation. Have been scratching my head all weekend trying to work out best solution - and that looks brilliant.

I don't want to fit this myself. Do you think it would be best to get this done by motorhome service centre or by an auto-electrician?
I'm just wondering if auto-electricians will have done many of these...

Thanks again

Andy

Hi Andy

An auto electrician should be able to do it easy peasy.

Martin

 

[Andy Bramhall]

Martin - I have also read different things about the rate of trickle that is optimal - and that different battery masters do this a bit differently - it seems to be between 1 and 3 amps. Do you have a view on this?
Our vehicle battery is 770ah

Also - we have two leisure batteries - but I assume this isn't going to complicate things?

I've attached a few pics of the vehicle battery, leisure batteries and the solar panel unit - in case this might be helpful!

Thanks so much

 

[Andy Bramhall]

Also - I don't know what power the solar panel is generating. It measures about 24inches by 12inches.
Is that likely to be about 100amps?

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[Hymie]

Another vote for the battery Master.

I lost 2 cab batteries in quick succession when we first started, illness meant unable to visit or use her for long periods, fitted a battery master after the 2nd one died, never had a starter battery problem since.

Hymie

 

[andy63]

Our vehicle battery is 770ah

Hi I think your battery is 85amp hr with a cold cranking rating of 770 amps...
There are a few trickle charge devices available .. that priorities charging in different ways... ie sterling ,Eddies battery master and the c2b off e bay.. you need to look at the different specifications and decide on your priority depending on your set up...

24inches by 12inches.

That's a small panel and not likely to be more than 30/40 watts maybe not even that which will only generate an amp or two.
Andy

 

[Andy Bramhall]

Thanks Andy

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[Andy Bramhall]

Hi I think your battery is 85amp hr with a cold cranking rating of 770 amps...
There are a few trickle charge devices available .. that priorities charging in different ways... ie sterling ,Eddies battery master and the c2b off e bay.. you need to look at the different specifications and decide on your priority depending on your set up...

Andy - I don't really know much about this - so can't make that kind of call. Who would be able to advise me about this sort of thing?

 

[andy63]

Andy - I don't really know much about this - so can't make that kind of call. Who would be able to advise me about this sort of thing?

Andy I'm no expert and most probably any device fitted will give your start battery a trickle charge..
I've got a Stirling device fitted on one van and to complicate matters and confuse you further a 120a voltage sensing relay linking my batteries on another self build.. both work well..
I'll look at the specs of a few of the devices and get back unless someone knows them off the top od their head and advises you...
Andy.

 

[andy63]

Here's a quick breakdown on the two devices that I've fitted.and both do a good job... the cbe unit is particularly good value for money imo. .
The Stirling unit will provide a charge of up to 2 amps to your start battery if the leisure battery voltage exceeds 13.3 v
It shuts off when the leisure battery voltage is 12. 8v

The cbe unit i's similar. .
Supplies up to 4 amps to the start battery as long as the leisure battery voltage exceeds 13.6v... it shuts down when the leisure voltage drops to 12.5v

The other popular device is the battery master as sold by van bitz. I think it supplies a current at a little over one amp but not sure about the voltages it works to... it's popular and plenty are happy with it... give Eddie a ring if you want the details...
Andy.

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[funflair]

Hi Andy

As @andy63 say engine battery is 85ah with 770amps CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) your habitation batteries are ESXIDE ES900 previously known as G80 they are a Gel battery so its worth making sure that the onboard charger is set to Gel, I think it will be as N+B would use these batteries as standard fit when your van was built, again as Andy says that size solar panel will not give many amps at all and even if it was not set to a Gel charging position it would barely have enough power to damage your batteries BUT if you were to increase the size of you solar set up you would need to check again on the suitability of the solar controller.

I use the Vanbitz battery master but I fitted a Votronic unit to a friends van, basically fit and forget, when it is operation it just monitors the difference in the two sets of battery voltages and connects around a couple of amps from the Leisure to the starter battery as and when required.

Martin

 

[funflair]

Here's a quick breakdown on the two devices that I've fitted.and both do a good job... the cbe unit is particularly good value for money imo. .
The Stirling unit will provide a charge of up to 2 amps to your start battery if the leisure battery voltage exceeds 13.3 v
It shuts off when the leisure battery voltage is 12. 8v
View attachment 162983

The cbe unit i's similar. .
Supplies up to 4 amps to the start battery as long as the leisure battery voltage exceeds 13.6v... it shuts down when the leisure voltage drops to 12.5v
View attachment 162985 View attachment 162986
The other popular device is the battery master as sold by van bitz. I think it supplies a current at a little over one amp but not sure about the voltages it works to... it's popular and plenty are happy with it... give Eddie a ring if you want the details...
Andy.

Ah BUT the CSB2 has to see 13.6 volts before it switches to charging the starter battery, OK with a strong solar charge but may not work as required with a weak solar input. Our van has the CSB2 fitted as standard and it hooks up to the starter battery when outside on solar or when on mains charging but when its in the shade (shed) the starter battery runs down faster than the habitation so I use the battery master as at about 12.3volts on the starter battery it will start to receive a couple of amps from the leisure batteries that will still be full.

I will add that the two systems CSB2 and battery master sit together quite happily and each one performs a slightly different task.

Martin

 

[andy63]

so I use the battery master as at about 12.3volts on the starter battery it will start to receive a couple of amps from the leisure batteries that will still be full.

I couldn't find the voltages for the battery master even though I'd seen them somewhere ... it obviously prioritises the start battery at the expense of the leisure .. what voltage on the leisure battery bank will it shut down at ??
It does say the battery master operates at 1.1 amp
Andy.

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[funflair]

I couldn't find the voltages for the battery master even though I'd seen them somewhere ... it obviously prioritises the start battery at the expense of the leisure .. what voltage on the leisure battery bank will it shut down at ??
It does say the battery master operates at 1.1 amp
Andy.

I think the battery master works on 0.65 or 0.7 volt difference but Gel holds fully charged about 13 volts, I am not sure about a shut down voltage Andy as part of my "master plan" the EFOY will come on before anything gets critical when I didn't have the battery master in my life the starter battery voltage could go too low to start while the leisure batteries were too high to start the EFOY on the automatic cycle, now the battery master pulls down the leisure batteries if it gets parked in the shed for long enough and then the EFOY comes on and charges it all up again.

Martin

 

[Andy Bramhall]

Andy - why do you have two devices that basically do the same job?

Also - who should I go to who can have a look at my setup and advise on best configuration.
I guess I want to check if current solar setup is adequate and upgrade if need be. And then also fit a battery master...

 

[andy63]

Andy - why do you have two devices that basically do the same job?

I don't Andy, at least not on the same van... Martin explained above that he runs two devices side by side without a problem...
His csb2 won't supply a charge to the start battery until the leisure batteries are at around 13 .6 volts which he might not get off his solar in poorer light...
The battery master on the other hand only needs a voltage difference between the banks to continue charging his start battery ie it prioritise's the start battery at the expense of the leisure... that's fine for Martin as he can afford an EFOY automatic charging system that kicks in when it senses his leisure battery voltage is low...
Hope that helps... or Martin will explain if ive got it wrong

If your only solar is what you refer to above its not enough..
If you are not happy to do a solar install yourself then get whoever does it to fit a battery master device at the same time.
Andy.