FLAT (and i mean Flat) Battery again.

MacroMad

MacroMad

Joined
Mar 16, 2017
Posts
272
Likes collected
453
Location
Telford
Funster No
47,773
MH
Carthago Malibu T460
Exp
Feb 2017
I have a 2008 Autotrail Cheyanne 634 with 20+ k on the clock, very happy with it, runs like a dream but, I put a New (correct spec) battery on (main Bat) about 2 months ago, due to covid it has been sitting at it's secure storage (Shrewsbury area) without moving, about 6 weeks ago i went and started the engine simply to turn things over, it started 1st flick as it should. Today i get to the van and the battery is so dead i cant even open the doors to get inside. I did get in by using the key manually.
What the hell is going wrong ?
I am not electrical savy and dont know how to read meters.
I can go and jump it but that's not the answer, something is flattening my battery ? anyone got any advice please. Thank's in advance.
 
had a 2008 fiat CI a while back and had exactly the same problem first year i put it in storage.
a guess would be that the 1st flick on the starter might just have pulled the last dregs from the battery and its unlikely you ran it long enough to put back what that start up took out of it, let alone what was already discharged.

also,the onboard systems have a parasitic drain that will cause your cab battery to drain over a period of time.
when you fitted the new battery was it fully, fully charged.

not sure if you have some sort of device that shuts the electrics down below a certain voltage to avoid / minimise damage to the battery and systems.
you would probably be better off externally charging the battery fully if you are able rather than a jump start. you would have to run it for a long while to charge the battery to an acceptable level. and modern vehicles depend on ram air through the grill as much as the fans to keep the air flowing over the engine. alternators dont tend to have cooling fins on these days.
 
if im reading that right its been stored for 12 weeks and started briefly once in that time then youve answered your own question ,radios alarms and even central locking will be drawing current 24 7 my work van will be flat if left much more than 3 weeks
 
As per the above, but can you advise if the van is stored inside or outside, if outside, do you have any solar. If you have solar do you have a battery master.?
 
I'm surprised it lasted that long. Modern vehicles have a constant drain on the battery. You need to charge it more regularly.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
ALL modern vehicles have some amount of what is called parasitic drain. The radio the ecu the alarm the immobiliser all take a little current constantly day and night. These add up to quite a bit and most vans without solar panels or being plugged in, the battery is low in 2 to 3 weeks. Then start the engine and not take it for a drive and thats another huge chunk of battery power gone

Do that once too often and it will kill a battery stone dead. Even doing it once damages the battery
 
If storing, you either need a source of power (solar or EHU), or a battery isolator fitted to the negative terminal to stop any drain. It will still need occassional charging, especially in winter. Charging a battery takes hours, not minutes. Alternatively, remove battery and keep in the house/garage, where it is easier to keep charged. Make sure you know the radio code, if it has one!
 
If it's stored outdoors fit a dual charge controller and solar panel.
Vans are being boost started at Dealerships all the time due to flat engine batteries or placed on EHU to prevent batteries going flat.
 
Same as others comments that it sounds normal to me. Two things to consider though. A new battery doesn’t necessarily mean it was fully charged on purchase. How long had retailer had it on their shelf? And the other being that once you started it a couple of weeks ago it would have needed to run at least 20 mins plus just to replace the power used to start it, let alone replace any of missing energy from being stationary.

Sounds just unfortunate timing with the pandemic, as normally you would have used it more.
 
We once had a 2006 Autotrail Tracker which had a reversing camera (standard equipment from manufacturer) which would drain battery if not switched off when vehicle not in use. The switch was in a cupboard by the Sargent box. If in (external) storage for long periods, do you have solar panel and battery master to keep cab battery topped up?

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Almost all motorhomes are converted from vans designed to be delivery vans, used daily, stop-start all day every day

we keep the same alternator and engine battery set up, add banks of leisure batteries, and a fridge freezer to also charge from the original alternator, and think 100 miles is a long way in one day😉

Then in Autumn, we park them up and wonder why the following Spring they won’t start? 🧐
 
OK, thank you all very much indeed, i appreciate it.
I listen to what you have all said.
Some of what you have said i know already but just need someone else to say it, so thank's for that.
So, It's going to go flat if standing, thats just the nature of the beast.
Starting it and running for 10 minutes every 6 - 8 weeks makes things worse.
Best solution, Fit a Solar panel to trickle charge the main battery.
Ok, i have read so may different views when it comes to Solar Panels and i am still not sure what to go for so i need best advice please.
What do you think, the cost is not an issue so i dont want a £50 jobby from ASDA but i am also not stupid, so should i be charging the main and leisure while i am at it ?
Suggestions please, again, thank's in anticipation.
 
Fit a big solar panel on the roof and a Votronic Duo controller, they are the better mppt type and keep both starter and leisure batteries charged 👍
 
There's a huge difference in the yield from a panel from midsummer to midwinter, obviously. A 100W panel will be enough to ensure the batteries stay topped up in storage on the darkest days, but will still give a useful boost when camping in summer. You could get away with a smaller panel, but it's as easy to fit a 100W as a smaller one.

Once you have the solar fitted, the starter battery should never need more than a trickle charge from it, so the rest can be used for your leisure battery needs.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
We recently survived 10 days away across 2 sites without EHU on a 130w panel coupled with B2B top up when driving from first to second site (we don’t run an inverter).

If you are in Telford, it could be worth having a chat with Dave Newell who is also based around there.

We use Vanbitz for alarms, solar, B2B etc.
 
Last edited:
MacroMad said:
OK, thank you all very much indeed, i appreciate it.
I listen to what you have all said.
Some of what you have said i know already but just need someone else to say it, so thank's for that.
So, It's going to go flat if standing, thats just the nature of the beast.
Starting it and running for 10 minutes every 6 - 8 weeks makes things worse.
Best solution, Fit a Solar panel to trickle charge the main battery.
Ok, i have read so may different views when it comes to Solar Panels and i am still not sure what to go for so i need best advice please.
What do you think, the cost is not an issue so i dont want a £50 jobby from ASDA but i am also not stupid, so should i be charging the main and leisure while i am at it ?
Suggestions please, again, thank's in anticipation.
Click to expand...

We have an Autotrail Apache so pretty much the same setup, Fitting a solar panel will keep both Habitation and Engine battery topped up in the summer, though you might have to fit one of Eddie Vanbitz's "Battery Master" https://www.vanbitz.com/product/battery-master/ to keep engine battery topped up.

During the winter months you will need to use a mains charger to keep both batteries charged, but keep an eye on the liquid levels, a suitable trickle charger will do the job.
 
Thank you to everybody for your comments and advice, when you are ignorant about something and have somewhere to go to ask those "silly" questions, It's a massive help and the reassurance it gives should not be underestimated.
I thank you all.
 
How often should I go mountaineering to clean my solar panels?
 
i think there is little difference between panels if you want to charge both batteries youll need a duo type controller

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
mitzimad said:
i think there is little difference between panels if you want to charge both batteries youll need a duo type controller
Click to expand...
not quite right, a basic solar panel is a basic solar panel but better quality costs more, although most folk would tell little difference for the extra cost
the duo controllers are considerably more money, especially the higher capacity ones than single panel. If it is much more than the £30ish cost of a battery master, it makes more sense financially to get a single controller and add a battery master to divert excess charge to the van battery

If you are planning weeks off grid, you need to spend more on the setup than if just keeping batteries topped up when parked
 
Ok, if i said i dont want these issues again just fit the best, what would you say ?
Bearing in mind that we never camp in the UK, usually only stay on camps with EHU, rarely we do park overnight without EHU, the van does get parked for say 6 months without use, has a main battery and 1 leisure battery, i have a BIG inverter sitting in my garage that i would also like fitted, cost is not an issue, what would fit to my van ?
 
If you are (almost) always on EHU do you really need the BIG inverter?
That sounds like it could need BIG solar & leisure battery capacity relative to actual size/demand/usage etc. But I’m a numpty when it comes to such matters, hence I will watch with interest as those who know respond...
 
Last edited:
MacroMad said:
Ok, if i said i dont want these issues again just fit the best, what would you say ?
Bearing in mind that we never camp in the UK, usually only stay on camps with EHU, rarely we do park overnight without EHU, the van does get parked for say 6 months without use, has a main battery and 1 leisure battery, i have a BIG inverter sitting in my garage that i would also like fitted, cost is not an issue, what would fit to my van ?
Click to expand...

Do you have access to electricity whilst stored? If so, just plug it in when stored, checking that your leisure battery charger is suitable for long term use. Either add a small (i.e. 2A) smart charger to your vehicle battery or fit something like a Battery Master to ensure the vehicle battery stays charged as well.

If you can't plug in, I'd stick a 100W to 150W panel on with a dual output MPPT controller (MPPT is important as it will work better in low light). Ideally, you want the highest voltage possible from the panel, so if money is no concern, it might be better to go for two panels and wire in series which will provide > 13V in much lower light (i.e. winter) than a single panel or parallel wired panel. It would be even better if you can tilt the panels south when stored.

I wouldn't bother with the inverter, as your usage patterns indicate it isn't needed as you normally have EHU when using the van. However, if you decide you do want to do a bit more camping at CL/CS/THS/aires etc and have some appliance that you MUST have, then make sure you mount it as close as possible to the leisure battery with thick cables.
 
Ok, thank you again,

The inverter, no we dont NEED it but i have it doing nothing at the moment and there may come a time when I or someone else may need it in an emergency so i thought it would be better sitting next to my leisure battery than on a shelf in the garage.

No we do not have access to power when parked up here in the UK, but i thought that when on EHU it DID NOT charge the starter battery ? or have i got that wrong ?

Solar Power Panel, yes i had in mind to “hinge” the panel/s orientation to South or even (if i was fitting it) to make the mounting so it could swivel.

Does anyone have any do’s or donts or tech suggestions ?

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
You need to add a battery master which will also top up your starter battery once your leisure batteries are charged. Not sure what built in charger you have on your van and if it charges up both batteries. The battery master's are only around £20 on e Bay and easy to fit. (y) (y)
 
MacroMad said:
Ok, thank you again,

The inverter, no we dont NEED it but i have it doing nothing at the moment and there may come a time when I or someone else may need it in an emergency so i thought it would be better sitting next to my leisure battery than on a shelf in the garage.

No we do not have access to power when parked up here in the UK, but i thought that when on EHU it DID NOT charge the starter battery ? or have i got that wrong ?

Solar Power Panel, yes i had in mind to “hinge” the panel/s orientation to South or even (if i was fitting it) to make the mounting so it could swivel.

Does anyone have any do’s or donts or tech suggestions ?
Click to expand...

Most installations won't charge the starter battery from the mains, but some will. However, this is not a concern for you as you don't have mains available in storage, and you won't have trouble when actually travelling, as you will be moving about, keeping the vehicle battery charged, just like a car does.

You do, however, need vehicle battery charging when in storage. What is best depends on your situation. If you literally just park from September until March, the best solution would be to remove your batteries and keep them at home in the warm and charge them every couple of months (helps with security too!). If you use it occasionally over winter, you'll be good with solar, provided your system does allow some sort of vehicle battery charging (i.e. dual output MPPT or a Battery Master). Perhaps a top up mains charge in January would be a good idea, though! It is best if you work out a system for isolating your batteries from any drainage. i.e. leave them charging on solar, but disconnected from all the alarms, radios and other various electronics to stop them from draining the batteries down.
 
Would a 100 watt solar plus mppt controller Feeding lesuire battery , keep everything topped up, if outside in winter with alarm on and a battery master to keep some juice going to engine battery) ?
 

Join us or log in to post a reply.

To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun

Join MotorhomeFun

Join us, it quick and easy!

Join us

Log in

Already a member? Log in here.

Latest journal entries

Back
Top