Fine example won’t hang around for long. (1 Viewer)

[Littlewheels]

A seriously well look after Niesmann + Bishcoff absolutely brilliant condition for year and not at silly money.
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[funflair]

Nice van for sure but it's the less popular FWD 2.8 with belt not cam chain, garage door is on the wrong side and they work well with a rear garage door as well

 

[Garfields]

While I don't question the quality of a Flair
£33.000 is a lot for what are 18 year old mechanicals
Gearboxes are a bit of an issue and replacements are getting thin on the ground
May be the ideal van for someone though

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[lorger]

I know these are quality vans but I couldn’t look at that interior all day.

 

[funflair]

I know these are quality vans but I couldn’t look at that interior all day.

Change the curtains, have it reupholstered in leather some people have wrapped some of the doors to lighten them up

 

[funflair]

While I don't question the quality of a Flair
£33.000 is a lot for what are 18 year old mechanicals
Gearboxes are a bit of an issue and replacements are getting thin on the ground
May be the ideal van for someone though

Another reason to go for the 3 litre that replaced the old 2.8 in 2005

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[IanRJ]

I really love the new N+B vans - especially the Flair. If I had the spondoolicks I'd have one (or get on the waiting list) like a shot. BUT, I have to say these older vans are so dated in looks, both external and internal, I cant believe this van can really be worth £33k?

I know form experience that when individuals sell through a dealer the Dealer is looking for at least £3k commission, in some instances up to £7k, its even higher when Dealer buys and resells a van, they are looking for between £5k and £15k contribution as a minimum. So most likely this is a van that would sell privately for £23k to £28k. At £23k I could see it as a really nice buy for someone considering the N+B quality of fittings etc.

Just my humble opinion and not intended to irritate those with older vans - once you have it (even bought new) it will eventually become an older model!

 

[Scotch mist]

If you buy a new van of that quality you will loose 20k over night so it will be good for someone

 

[funflair]

If you buy a new van of that quality you will loose 20k over night so it will be good for someone

Thats the point though you can't buy a new van of that quality or certainly not the right side of £250k, we had a Flair of this era and replaced it with a MORELO costing considerably more OK the Palace is a nice van but I am not sure that it is as well thought out and put together as the old Flair.

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[EuroTrotters]

A seriously well look after Niesmann + Bishcoff absolutely brilliant condition for year and not at silly money.
<Broken link removed>

I had just seen that on eBay before you posted.

too many pedals, too many axles and wrong drive for me.

but very nice.

 

[funflair]

I really love the new N+B vans - especially the Flair. If I had the spondoolicks I'd have one (or get on the waiting list) like a shot. BUT, I have to say these older vans are so dated in looks, both external and internal, I cant believe this van can really be worth £33k?

I know form experience that when individuals sell through a dealer the Dealer is looking for at least £3k commission, in some instances up to £7k, its even higher when Dealer buys and resells a van, they are looking for between £5k and £15k contribution as a minimum. So most likely this is a van that would sell privately for £23k to £28k. At £23k I could see it as a really nice buy for someone considering the N+B quality of fittings etc.

Just my humble opinion and not intended to irritate those with older vans - once you have it (even bought new) it will eventually become an older model!

The new Flair is a nicely finished and good looking van but we never viewed it as a worthy replacement for our old Flair, it's all a bit bling inside and the kitchen is rubbish in comparison so that was us out at the first hurdle.

 

[Kilroy]

So when you say "old Flair"......up until which year is old?

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[peterc10]

Just smiffy

Any good for you Garry?

 

[supervario]

have a look at mot history

 

[jongood]

While I don't question the quality of a Flair
£33.000 is a lot for what are 18 year old mechanicals
Gearboxes are a bit of an issue and replacements are getting thin on the ground
May be the ideal van for someone though

Nothing wrong with an 18 year old Mh - if you have the correct base that is MAN.

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[funflair]

So when you say "old Flair"......up until which year is old?

When I said “old” I meant our last van which was 2005/2006 actually, if it had been 2010 it would still have been “our old Flair”

 

[funflair]

Nothing wrong with an 18 year old Mh - if you have the correct base that is MAN.

You are right in what you say Jon, the N+B bit will last forever so pick your chassis wisely as there is no point in a good van on crap chassis.

 

[Just smiffy]

Just smiffy

Any good for you Garry?

Thanks for looking out Peter, appreciated but it’s manual… I need an auto…

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[acropolis22]

Looks like only 3 belted seats, so will not suit some people.

 

[Kilroy]

When I said “old” I meant our last van which was 2005/2006 actually, if it had been 2010 it would still have been “our old Flair”

Thanks for that. I am just trying to clarify when the change in quality that you referred to happened with the Flair...as I am on the search for a MH and Flair is on the shortlist...

 

[jongood]

Thanks for that. I am just trying to clarify when the change in quality that you referred to happened with the Flair...as I am on the search for a MH and Flair is on the shortlist...

No the N&B bit of a Flair on top a Fiat is just as good as any other, its the chassis that never was quite man enough for the job under such a heavy body. IMO the best package needs to be on the 3 litre Iveco chassis ( no cambelt unlike the 2.8) and up to about 2008 had a decent kitchen in them, the later ones have a tiny angled affair that is hopeless and still used on most of the modern ones.

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[Itsmcb]

I'm not sure having a cam chain is the upgrade many people think it is. I have a Merc 3.7 V6 and the chain is worn and rattles on start up, its an old vehicle but only has 130000miles on it sadly it isn't worth the cost of replacing as it's not just the chain but the tensioner and the pulleys as everything gets worn. My daughter's Merc 2 litre kompressor has just reached 90k and it's recommended to change the chain and tensioner on that as it's a know fault. Way more expensive than having a cam belt changed so how is that an improvement

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

While I don't question the quality of a Flair
£33.000 is a lot for what are 18 year old mechanicals
Gearboxes are a bit of an issue and replacements are getting thin on the ground
May be the ideal van for someone though

Forgive my ignorance but how is an 05 plate at 18 years old.
I thought that was 16 years old assuming an 05 is 2005.
I only ask because my van is a W reg (Jan 2001) and that was 20 years old this Jan 2021.
By the recconning of 2005 being 18 years old, that would make my van 22 years old this year.
Just asking as if I decide to sell this year I need to be accurate in my description.
I am looking to re-purchase again though.

 

[Kilroy]

No the N&B bit of a Flair on top a Fiat is just as good as any other, its the chassis that never was quite man enough for the job under such a heavy body. IMO the best package needs to be on the 3 litre Iveco chassis ( no cambelt unlike the 2.8) and up to about 2008 had a decent kitchen in them, the later ones have a tiny angled affair that is hopeless and still used on most of the modern ones.

Thanks for that clarification.

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[jongood]

I'm not sure having a cam chain is the upgrade many people think it is. I have a Merc 3.7 V6 and the chain is worn and rattles on start up, its an old vehicle but only has 130000miles on it sadly it isn't worth the cost of replacing as it's not just the chain but the tensioner and the pulleys as everything gets worn. My daughter's Merc 2 litre kompressor has just reached 90k and it's recommended to change the chain and tensioner on that as it's a know fault. Way more expensive than having a cam belt changed so how is that an improvement

Generally they re more robust and less maintenance than an engine with belt drive cam. In this case the 3 litre is a Iveco unit that is renowned to be more powerful and more robust than the 2.3 litre choice.

Its all very well pushing outputs upwards from smaller engines but if you re to avoid a commensurate loss of torque then you need increasingly sophisticated electronics and turbochargers which bring their own problems.

 

[JockandRita]

When I said “old” I meant our last van which was 2005/2006 actually, if it had been 2010 it would still have been “our old Flair”

And now it's someone else's "old Flair".

So when you say "old Flair"......up until which year is old?

No the N&B bit of a Flair on top a Fiat is just as good as any other, its the chassis that never was quite man enough for the job under such a heavy body. IMO the best package needs to be on the 3 litre Iveco chassis ( no cambelt unlike the 2.8) and up to about 2008 had a decent kitchen in them, the later ones have a tiny angled affair that is hopeless and still used on most of the modern ones.

Kilroy, tonyandcarol have a 2004 Flair on the Fiat/ALKO tandem chassis. They are over the moon with the N&B build quality, and happy with the drive and performance of the 2.8 JTD.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[fesuvious]

In context though,

The next generation Flair on the MK4 Iveco with 3.0 would likely be £15-20k more.

MOT history on this one suggests owner skimped a bit and also that it's been stood for long periods of time unused.

Current advisories suggest there's £3-4k easily coming up. Sump corrosion isn't something I'd leave for too long!

Brake discs all being corroded means discs and pads all round. While you're there you'd refurb the handbrake.......

Assuming the tyres are shot.....

Discs and pads @£250 per corner fitted, set of boots @£600-800 and replacing the sump £250-400 fitted. Then you'd have to assume bushes can't be far behind.....and add on a full service and a remap.

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[fesuvious]

To add,
I bought my 2007 Flair in a similar condition. Interior was perfect. Underneath waxoiled. And only @25k miles.

The bare bones were good chassis, great build. Tyres were 10yrs old though.

All new boots, new brakes, new bushes and as a precaution all new cooling (rad/pump/stat etc) and it's pukka!

Unused and unloved or indeed 'minimal upkeep' doesn't always mean 'dont buy'. It can just mean 'buy wisely'

 

[Littlewheels]

Thats the point though you can't buy a new van of that quality or certainly not the right side of £250k, we had a Flair of this era and replaced it with a MORELO costing considerably more OK the Palace is a nice van but I am not sure that it is as well thought out and put together as the old Flair.

That’s the reason we moved from our 2012 Flair to Concorde.

 

[sallylillian]

That’s the reason we moved from our 2012 Flair to Concorde.

I had a 2015 Flair, the new era, unfairly criticised in my opinion, it has a price advantage on a Daily chassis over a C, M or P, however in my opinion still retains the exterior style advantage. But it is the overall package, when compared to the other 3 main players, that demonstrates where the price advantage is gleaned. I would not say that the N+B is less well constructed it just lacks finesse and a definitive lack of solidity in comparison which is reflected in the overall weights as well.

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