Finally been forced to upgrade my 2012 computer (1 Viewer)

[Gromett]

I make a living off my computer so it may surprise a few that I am still working on an Intel i5-3570 thank to Linux.
Due to Intel having node issues they haven't made much more than incremental improvements each release so I have never bothered to upgrade as my computer does what it needs to do and the big prices for small gains meant I was never convinced.

However, AMD Ryzen CPU launched 3-4 years ago and improving each year by a big chunk have overtaken intel by a margin in productivity terms so I was considering an upgrade.

I was going to wait for their 4th generation 4000's series to launch and then do a full update of my system probably in 2021.

However my long suffering 2012 computer has finally decided my heat management system is not sufficient and it has started playing up. Not sure if it is the CPU, motherboard or ram so rather than ordering straight replacements for this ancient technology piece by piece I have decided to upgrade.

When it comes to technology I have become a bit of an old fart and don't go for the latest and greatest. So I have settled on a Ryzen 3600 which is dirt cheap relatively speaking but is at least 4 times faster than my current CPU and uses less power.

I really didn't want to spend the money at the moment with work being so slow but heat related issues like I am having don't get any better with time and I still need to earn a living.

I am now getting a little excited to be building my 1st PC in 8 years.

As I was going to be stripping it down I also decided to upgrade my ancient GTX 750Ti gfx card and have chosen a 1660 Super. This seems to be the sweet spot of performance, power efficiency and price at the moment.

It really is a value build.

Any PC builders/hobbiests/aficionados have any thoughts or comments?

 

[Gellyneck]

Funnily enough I'm in the process of specing out a new self-build to replace a 2011 one. AMD though.
Was also looking at Ryzen 3600 (not the 3600X as the performance increase doesn't seem to be worth the extra cost).

Bored rather than any major issues right enough. Windows will be coming off it and Mint 19 going on.

If it was a Windows machine you could have stuck Speccy on it and got the temps of the components. Do you know of any Linux alternative? I tried looking a while back but ......

Wonder if your heating issue is maybe just the cpu needing the thermal paste replaced?

 

[AndyPK]

Thermal paste efficiency was my initial thought too - I’ve had issues in the past with it become ‘tired’. Now I just use an iPad Pro as I’ve retired.......

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[Gellyneck]

Thermal paste efficiency was my initial thought too - I’ve had issues in the past with it become ‘tired’. Now I just use an iPad Pro as I’ve retired.......

Bl**dy h*ll!!!!! How did you get an iPad Pro to fit between the cpu and the cooler?

 

[BobtheBass]

I have no idea what I just read.

 

[Rob Hammond]

My son has the Ryzen thread ripper 1920x which according to him is good for gaming

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[Jev88]

Hope I am not teaching you to suck eggs but the biggest performance boost is typically swop to an SSD hard drive - hard drives are the biggest bottle neck in older computers. Sensible pricing now.

 

[AndyPK]

Bl**dy h*ll!!!!! How did you get an iPad Pro to fit between the cpu and the cooler?

With difficulty.........!!!

 

[Gerby]

The new 10th gen I9 10900K looks good it comes with 10 cores and 20 threads and (based on early test figures) it looks like Intel may finally have something to push AMD again, the price point looks well scary though and you are going to need a Z490 motherboard which will also set you back quite a bit

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[AndyPK]

The new 10th gen I9 10900K looks good it comes with 10 cores and 20 threads and (based on early test figures) it looks like Intel may finally have something to push AMD again, the price point looks well scary though and you are going to need a Z490 motherboard which will also set you back quite a bit

...and the cooling issue will be even more critical!

 

[Stealaway]

However my long suffering 2012 computer has finally decided my heat management system is not sufficient and it has started playing up. Not sure if it is the CPU, motherboard or ram so rather than ordering straight replacements for this ancient technology piece by piece I have decided to upgrade.

I've just had to repair my office desktop computer.
I couldn't decide which bit was playing up until I took the power supply out to clean it. You could not see a single component for the all the crap that was in there, it was jammed. Replaced that and wallah - back to its best.
SD hard drives are cheapest way of increasing performance

 

[Gerby]

...and the cooling issue will be even more critical!

Very true, though if you use the amount of cooling I currently run that shouldn't be an issue for anything other than the bank balance and electricity bill.

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[Gromett]

Funnily enough I'm in the process of specing out a new self-build to replace a 2011 one. AMD though.
Was also looking at Ryzen 3600 (not the 3600X as the performance increase doesn't seem to be worth the extra cost).

Bored rather than any major issues right enough. Windows will be coming off it and Mint 19 going on.

If it was a Windows machine you could have stuck Speccy on it and got the temps of the components. Do you know of any Linux alternative? I tried looking a while back but ......

Wonder if your heating issue is maybe just the cpu needing the thermal paste replaced?

I replaced the thermal paste. I suspect it is one of the capacitors on the VRM side of the motherboard. They do look toasty. But replacing an 8 year old motherboard by spending £50 seems like a false economy. If it then turns out to be the CPU that is going faulty I would have to spend even more. I would be chasing my tail.


I went with the 3600 not the 3600x for the same reason.

 

[Gromett]

Hope I am not teaching you to suck eggs but the biggest performance boost is typically swop to an SSD hard drive - hard drives are the biggest bottle neck in older computers. Sensible pricing now.

It is not performance that is the issue. The computer runs fine for an hour or two then starts stuttering and eventually freezes. Turn it off and leave it for 15 minutes with fan running and it starts working again.

I use 4 SSD's in my system

I am going to eventually move to NVMe drives.

 

[Gromett]

The new 10th gen I9 10900K looks good it comes with 10 cores and 20 threads and (based on early test figures) it looks like Intel may finally have something to push AMD again, the price point looks well scary though and you are going to need a Z490 motherboard which will also set you back quite a bit

They are only good if you want to play games and get every single last FPS out. You will also have a much higher electricity bill as this CPU is pulling in excess of 300 watts under full load. Heat management is an issue also due to this. The Ryzen 3900X is much better value at that end of the scale.

However, if you are buying this for games no doubt you have also bought an Nvidia RTX2080 and money is no object Have at it

Intel have come closer to Ryzen than expected this time round. Bearing in mind they are still running on the 14nm process node and AMD are on the 7nm process node it is really quite impressive what they have achieved. When intel finally get to the 7nm process node they will be kicking butt. But they have been working on it for 5+ years now and still whispers that it may not be till the end of 2021 before the get it working. AMD in the meantime have Zen 3 4000 series processors coming out this year that are a substantial improvement on this years Zen 2 series.

PS: Just so you know. I have been exclusively Intel since I started my company as I couldn't afford server instability so no did the opteron stuff. I had an enterprise support contract with Intel and Dell back then so it made no sense to buy anything but Intel for my home computer either. Back when I was buying this computer I did briefly look at AMD but they had just released their Bulldozer based CPU's and they were shockingly bad. So I stuck with Intel ever since. AMD provided no competition from then on until the Ryzen came out. 1st gen Ryzen were impressive but had memory issues etc etc. 2nd Gen fixed a lot but still had bios issues. Zen 2 based 3rd gen absolutely rock. Intel meanwhile have sat back on the haunches for many many years and relied on the fact that they were kicking AMD all over the place. This attitude of restricting features on CPU's to gouge money left a nasty taste in my mouth. So when I saw Ryzen supported PCIe on consumer grade CPU's. 8 cores (intel were only doing 4) and also supported ECC memory across the board I was convinced to move to team red.

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[Gromett]

I've just had to repair my office desktop computer.
I couldn't decide which bit was playing up until I took the power supply out to clean it. You could not see a single component for the all the crap that was in there, it was jammed. Replaced that and wallah - back to its best.
SD hard drives are cheapest way of increasing performance

Mine gets an annual clean out. I also have air filters in front of the fans and operate a positive pressure cooling system. Dust is not really a problem in my system thankfully. I learned that lesson early on in fulltiming.

 

[Gerby]

They are only good if you want to play games and get every single last FPS out. You will also have a much higher electricity bill as this CPU is pulling in excess of 300 watts under full load. Heat management is an issue also due to this. The Ryzen 3900X is much better value at that end of the scale.

However, if you are buying this for games no doubt you have also bought an Nvidia RTX2080 and money is no object Have at it

Intel have come closer to Ryzen than expected this time round. Bearing in mind they are still running on the 14nm process node and AMD are on the 7nm process node it is really quite impressive what they have achieved. When intel finally get to the 7nm process node they will be kicking butt. But they have been working on it for 5+ years now and still whispers that it may not be till the end of 2021 before the get it working. AMD in the meantime have Zen 3 4000 series processors coming out this year that are a substantial improvement on this years Zen 2 series.

PS: Just so you know. I have been exclusively Intel since I started my company as I couldn't afford server instability so no did the opteron stuff. I had an enterprise support contract with Intel and Dell back then so it made no sense to buy anything but Intel for my home computer either. Back when I was buying this computer I did briefly look at AMD but they had just released their Bulldozer based CPU's and they were shockingly bad. So I stuck with Intel ever since. AMD provided no competition from then on until the Ryzen came out. 1st gen Ryzen were impressive but had memory issues etc etc. 2nd Gen fixed a lot but still had bios issues. Zen 2 based 3rd gen absolutely rock. Intel meanwhile have sat back on the haunches for many many years and relied on the fact that they were kicking AMD all over the place. This attitude of restricting features on CPU's to gouge money left a nasty taste in my mouth. So when I saw Ryzen supported PCIe on consumer grade CPU's. 8 cores (intel were only doing 4) and also supported ECC memory across the board I was convinced to move to team red.

I know what you mean about the running costs and heat (though my current cooling system should cope OK if I choose to upgrade, not seriously thinking of it but I always keep an eye on the latest not needed tech just to wind the missus up), Like you I have remained loyal to intel since I made my first PC back in the 80's based on the then new 286sx, I have used intel ever since for my own machines though built and worked on quite a few AMD's for mates but always found intel had the edge till very recently.

Strangely though when you look at the standard gaming tests the i7 seems very similar to the i9 even with less cores and threads.

I have considered the RTX 2080 but I am currently running twin GTX1080's and they easily keep pace with multiple applications even when I run 3 screens and VR.

 

[Gellyneck]

I replaced the thermal paste. I suspect it is one of the capacitors on the VRM side of the motherboard. They do look toasty. But replacing an 8 year old motherboard by spending £50 seems like a false economy. If it then turns out to be the CPU that is going faulty I would have to spend even more. I would be chasing my tail.


I went with the 3600 not the 3600x for the same reason.

I guessed you would have tried the paste.
Totally agree on spending cash on the mobo \ cpu.
Seriously considering NVMe drive for the operating system (currently ssd). Still using mechanical SATA drives (2 \ 3Tbs) for the data though!

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[RandallC]

Bl**dy h*ll!!!!! How did you get an iPad Pro to fit between the cpu and the cooler?

Glad I'm not privy to your dreams!

 

[Gellyneck]

Glad I'm not privy to your dreams!

I can confirm that I do not dream in the privy!

 

[RandallC]

I can confirm that I do not dream in the privy!

OK lets clear this up ASAP.

There is NO intended mention of anyone on the Privy.

Was merely saying in reality T,G I don't have yours, if that the outcome
!

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[Gromett]

I know what you mean about the running costs and heat (though my current cooling system should cope OK if I choose to upgrade, not seriously thinking of it but I always keep an eye on the latest not needed tech just to wind the missus up), Like you I have remained loyal to intel since I made my first PC back in the 80's based on the then new 286sx, I have used intel ever since for my own machines though built and worked on quite a few AMD's for mates but always found intel had the edge till very recently.

Strangely though when you look at the standard gaming tests the i7 seems very similar to the i9 even with less cores and threads.

I have considered the RTX 2080 but I am currently running twin GTX1080's and they easily keep pace with multiple applications even when I run 3 screens and VR.

Heat and power are an important factor for me as I am a fulltimer.

In the early days I was a big Cyrix fan. I worked at a computer component wholesaler and system builder. I built over 6,000 computers for local people in my area and back then it was price that was everything so Cyrix, AMD and a few others beat intel in sales for us. But when I set my own company up doing hosting, reliability was everything and I needed enterprise level support so Intel became the favourite as cost took a back seat.

Twin GPU's are getting less and less necessary these days and games seems to be dropping support from what I read. The only game I play is World of warcraft occassionally so GFX is not too much of an issue for me. Needed to upgrade as my eyesite is getting worse so need a bigger screen and moving from 1080p to 1440p.

I stuck with the GTX rather than RTX as I wouldn't notice the ray tracing and my AI experiments are long gone

 

[Gromett]

I guessed you would have tried the paste.
Totally agree on spending cash on the mobo \ cpu.
Seriously considering NVMe drive for the operating system (currently ssd). Still using mechanical SATA drives (2 \ 3Tbs) for the data though!

I use 4 SSD's in my system and I have a bunch of very large mechanical drives for data backup.

I specced the new system with a single NVMe drive slot but not populating yet due to finances. At a later date I will buy one and re-install linux on it.
I will also probably buy a PCIe card to host a second and third NVMe drive and move my active data and windows (spit) partition onto them and remove the 4 SSD's currently in play.

Sadly with the virus killing work I am having to be careful with pennies at the moment but the failure appears to be imminent.

All parts arrived today except for the CPU. Motherboard and memory came from Italy and beat the CPU which is coming from the UK lol.

 

[BobtheBass]

I like myrtle jam. It's very tasty.

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[RandallC]

I like myrtle jam. It's very tasty.

OK, Please clarify what is it who makes it and is this a wind up?

 

[BobtheBass]

OK, Please clarify what is it who makes it and is this a wind up?

Not a wind up, I just dont understand a word of this genius/boffins post and cant contribute. If you can have a raspberry pi then I suppose you could have a myrtle jam!

 

[Gromett]

Damnit! Display port cable arrived today and HDMI to VGA adapter. So thought I would put the GFX card in and see what it was like.
It won't fit. Too tall for my 3U server case. The card sits proud of the top of the L bracket so I can't get the lid back on.

Looked at alternatives and the only one that will fit is £100 more... I checked the length but didn't think the height would be a problem DOH!!!

No place to put a normal case in my van... So back to the drawing board I think.

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[Kannon Fodda]

I doubt you will see that much difference between a good SSD and an NVMe in speed terms. The computer could no doubt measure it, but a human. General data storage HDD's are fine, but the SSD is more energy efficient.

You indicate primary use of the computer is work, with a little gaming. AMD, provided you get balanced RAM seems the current way to go on bang for buck, if you have need for multiple threads, popular with those who do a lot of encoding of video and stuff. Most games have yet to really use muti threading so for those the core speed of the CPU is better.

If you don't need ray tracing on the GPU then some of the AMD based GPUs may be better value than those of the green tea, just watch the power consumption, and thus heat. Half height GPU cards are available, but as you note may limit choice and cost a tad more. Most GPUs need some space just so they can be adequately cooled by fans.

 

[Neil Bedwin]

The last computer I 'built' had 32 octo core processors, two 3 phase power supplies and many, many terrabytes of disc. But that was six years ago so it's probably out of date now.

It sat in a computer room surrounded by $12million worth of other computers, tape robots and disc storage. Kept me busy.....

 

[Coolcats]

I make a living off my computer so it may surprise a few that I am still working on an Intel i5-3570 thank to Linux.
Due to Intel having node issues they haven't made much more than incremental improvements each release so I have never bothered to upgrade as my computer does what it needs to do and the big prices for small gains meant I was never convinced.

However, AMD Ryzen CPU launched 3-4 years ago and improving each year by a big chunk have overtaken intel by a margin in productivity terms so I was considering an upgrade.

I was going to wait for their 4th generation 4000's series to launch and then do a full update of my system probably in 2021.

However my long suffering 2012 computer has finally decided my heat management system is not sufficient and it has started playing up. Not sure if it is the CPU, motherboard or ram so rather than ordering straight replacements for this ancient technology piece by piece I have decided to upgrade.

When it comes to technology I have become a bit of an old fart and don't go for the latest and greatest. So I have settled on a Ryzen 3600 which is dirt cheap relatively speaking but is at least 4 times faster than my current CPU and uses less power.

I really didn't want to spend the money at the moment with work being so slow but heat related issues like I am having don't get any better with time and I still need to earn a living.

I am now getting a little excited to be building my 1st PC in 8 years.

As I was going to be stripping it down I also decided to upgrade my ancient GTX 750Ti gfx card and have chosen a 1660 Super. This seems to be the sweet spot of performance, power efficiency and price at the moment.

It really is a value build.

Any PC builders/hobbiests/aficionados have any thoughts or comments?

Just purchased a £55 Rasberry Pi it’s a cracking little computer my main machine is a 16in MAC Book Pro and is the dogs dangly bits my 2010 Mac book pro had to be replaced so whatever you get you can have fun with them

already have run Prolog on the rasberry and looking to run some neural net software on it for a bit of fun.

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