Fillsafe or calor gas bottle?

[The Baileys]

Apologies if this has been posted before?

As newbies we are about to purchase a propane bottle(s)

Have done a bit of googling and are torn between a 10kg Fillsafe bottle which can be topped up at any time/level or the standard 11kg Calor gas bottle which is exchanged when empty or required.

Big difference in price but I guess the long term you’d make your money back as you’d be doing top-ups rather than complete exchanges with possibly unused gas being returned.

Would appreciate your thoughts and experience.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Wildbill]

Gas low or gasit system all the way never had a problem in seven years
Bill

 

[Minxy]

Wouldn't buy a Safe-fill as personally I prefer my bottle to be fitted and not have to mess about with it, I just stick the pump 'gun' on the filler point when it needs topping up and don't have to worry about being 'told off' for trying to fill a 'removable' bottle.

As for Calor ... only if you've got money to literally burn!

 

[RowleyBirkinQC]

Alugas refillable due to considerable weight saving over Calor etc - http://www.autogasleisure.co.uk/

 

[peterc10]

I have not voted as I would not choose either. As others have said get a proper refillable system with external gas point. Gasit, Gaslow or Alugas, in ascending order of price. Otherwise you will often be stopped from filling on forecourts because they think you are unsafely filling a Calor type bottle.

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[vwalan]

you could just fit a fill point and connect to a calor or flogas or what ever bottle . many already do.
but in some countries changing a local bottle can be the cheap way.

 

[TerryL]

Please DON'T get a Fillsafe. Although I cannot point to a specific incident the whole method is so open to mistakes that IMO (there are those who will disagree) it should be banned - but I'm no expert.

Calor, as pointed out, can be very expensive but a lot depends on how you use your motorhome. If you must, buy a large AND a small bottle - assuming you've got room of course - so that you can use the small bottle as a reserve when the big one runs out, thus avoiding handing back unused gas.

I haven't voted because, as above, I wouldn't use either option. I know the initial outlay is quite high but the ease of filling, no handling heavy gas bottles and the cheapness of refill gas does it for me. You do get the cost back, all depends on how much you use of course. We've "won" four times the amount the system (2x6kg refillables) cost us. And you have no problems refilling if you're in Europe either, where you'd have to buy a different cylinder for each country.

You might consider an under-slung tank if you're a bit short of room.

 

[Minxy]

you could just fit a fill point and connect to a calor or flogas or what ever bottle . many already do.
but in some countries changing a local bottle can be the cheap way.

Can I suggest that you don't advise 'novices' to do very dangerous stuff like this unless you are willing to tell them the whole situation, including legality, carry out a risk assessment, and be responsible if it all goes 'bang'!

 

[Reallyretired]

Can't answer as I wouldn't do either. A proper refillable system is the only way fir me. Mine is alugas which saves weight as well. Last trip to Europe we used 60L of gas which would have cost a fortune in calor and calor not available outside the UK anyway

 

[Pausim]

you could just fit a fill point and connect to a calor or flogas or what ever bottle . many already do.
but in some countries changing a local bottle can be the cheap way.

Gasit, Gaslow and Alugas have 80% cut off when filling. Calor and Flogas do not. Filling above 80% is potentially dangerous, can stop the gas boiling off properly and may damage the regulator. Some people claim to be able to do this safely by weighing and/or measuring the gas but you would need to be very careful and know exactly what you are doing.

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[Popeye]

I must say that refillable is the way to go. I am currently touring with another couple who are constantly searching for sites with EHU as they are running low on Propane (even though he carries a third bottle for his CADAC). I have filled my two bottles twice in the last two months and they weren’t empty. Total cost so far in gas 11.00 Euros. I have also supplied gas for his Cadac on two occasions.
I went the Gaslow route purely because VanBitz were working on the alarm and tracker already and I prefer a proper firm carrying out such work.

 

[vwalan]

Gasit, Gaslow and Alugas have 80% cut off when filling. Calor and Flogas do not. Filling above 80% is potentially dangerous, can stop the gas boiling off properly and may damage the regulator. Some people claim to be able to do this safely by weighing and/or measuring the gas but you would need to be very careful and know exactly what you are doing.

the pumps are supposed to cut out at the correct pressure . but never mind weighing is easy. or just fill from empty is easy.
butalso like i said in spain its cheaper to swap bottles also morocco far cheaper , its up to you .

 

[Pausim]

the pumps are supposed to cut out at the correct pressure . but never mind weighing is easy. or just fill from empty is easy.
butalso like i said in spain its cheaper to swap bottles also morocco far cheaper , its up to you .

The pumps do not cut out at the 80% safe point. The pumping pressure can be double that of the propane pressure, with the proper bottles the valve shuts at 80% and the pressure quickly builds in the filler pipes to the cut off pressure. In a Calor or Flogas rental bottle the pressure will not build up to the cut off point until the bottle is overfilled and potentially dangerous.

 

[vwalan]

The pumps do not cut out at the 80% safe point. The pumping pressure can be double that of the propane pressure, with the proper bottles the valve shuts at 80% and the pressure quickly builds in the filler pipes to the cut off pressure. In a Calor or Flogas rental bottle the pressure will not build up to the cut off point until the bottle is overfilled and potentially dangerous.

i was told that the pumps actually cut off at 90%.
yes i know there is talk etc of 80%.
calor always used to say 90% was about the bottle pressure.
mind early refillable bottles and tanks had a leak off valve that leaked liquid off at the correct pressure .
many house gas tanks still have them . the gauge on the tanks show 80-90%. its all a bit roughly really.

 

[Pausim]

i was told that the pumps actually cut off at 90%.
yes i know there is talk etc of 80%.
calor always used to say 90% was about the bottle pressure.
mind early refillable bottles and tanks had a leak off valve that leaked liquid off at the correct pressure .
many house gas tanks still have them . the gauge on the tanks show 80-90%. its all a bit roughly really.

Pressure has very little to do with fill level. It is affected significantly by temperature and the ratio of propane to butane in the mix. A half full bottle will have the same pressure as a full one. The pressure only drops off significantly when the bottle is nearly empty. The filler pumps can be operating in the region of 200psi but the resting pressure of the propane in the bottle might well be half this, I see no way that you can safely rely on the pumps cut off pressure. Refillable bottles are designed for user refilling, rental bottles are designed differently.

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[vwalan]

Pressure has very little to do with fill level. It is affected significantly by temperature and the ratio of propane to butane in the mix. A half full bottle will have the same pressure as a full one. The pressure only drops off significantly when the bottle is nearly empty. The filler pumps can be operating in the region of 200psi but the resting pressure of the propane in the bottle might well be half this, I see no way that you can safely rely on the pumps cut off pressure. Refillable bottles are designed for user refilling, rental bottles are designed differently.

yes its not really the pressure but there is or should be a gadget in the pumps handle that a return of the liquid stop the pumps .
filling from empty is best.

 

[peterc10]

yes its not really the pressure but there is or should be a gadget in the pumps handle that a return of the liquid stop the pumps .
filling from empty is best.

But, if there is no 80% cut off in the bottle, that only works when the bottles are 100% full surely? And, as I understand it, that is the danger.

 

[Minxy]

yes its not really the pressure but there is or should be a gadget in the pumps handle that a return of the liquid stop the pumps .
filling from empty is best.

No, only using a purpose made 'user refillable' bottle is best.

 

[Pausim]

yes its not really the pressure but there is or should be a gadget in the pumps handle that a return of the liquid stop the pumps .
filling from empty is best.

There doesn’t need to be a gadget in the pump handle, the system was deigned with the cut off in the lpg tank or bottle. It is just a matter of having the right equipment installed. Anyway I can’t see how anything in the pump handle would know when the bottle reached the 80% full mark.

 

[Gellyneck]

OK, going against the flow here.
We don't use huge quantities of gas but are in the process of running out a Calor cylinder and when done will switch over to a Safefill cylinder currently sitting alongside it.

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[Lenny HB]

Can't vote on those options, Calor a pain in the butt, expensive & means lugging heavy bottles.
Safefill/fillsafe also a pain in the butt you have to disconnect the cylinders to fill them, very high chance of being refused when you go to fill them, not worth the hassle.

If you are going to have a re-fillable system fit a proper one with an external filler. We have 14 kg Alugas bottles, plenty of other systems, Gaslow, Stako, Gas-it, etc.

 

[Richard n Ann]

My vote goes to Gaslow ? right for the job ?

 

[Sus3v]

Blimey! This is one of those ‘simple’ choices that I simply don’t really understand. Less weight, no waste, and refillable sound grand but do the advantages tip the balance? I have questions but this may not be the thread. No vote, because I haven’t got a clue! Current system in van is calor

 

[Zigisla]

Blimey! This is one of those ‘simple’ choices that I simply don’t really understand. Less weight, no waste, and refillable sound grand but do the advantages tip the balance? I have questions but this may not be the thread. No vote, because I haven’t got a clue! Current system in van is calor

Just a quick reply on your question. Yes very much the advantages tip the balance. If you can ignore the cost reap back and focus on ease of use. I used to get Calor at much cheapness and am certainly young and fit enough to "Lug" around i.e. change calor bottles every so often as my useage is/was low. However, it was the looking around for a "Go Outdoors" store to get the right bottle size and then the waste of changing too early. So we went for Gaslow and haven't looked back. Going abroad was an absolute game changer. One of the top Co Re-Fillables is the way ahead
Still can't find thumbs up emoji!!

 

[Lenny HB]

.

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[The Wino]

I have not voted as I would not choose either. As others have said get a proper refillable system with external gas point. Gasit, Gaslow or Alugas, in ascending order of price. Otherwise you will often be stopped from filling on forecourts because they think you are unsafely filling a Calor type bottle.

Our filler is in the locker never been questioned or stopped has anyone else or is it a myth put about by people who sell external filler kit?

 

[The Wino]

Please DON'T get a Fillsafe. Although I cannot point to a specific incident the whole method is so open to mistakes that IMO (there are those who will disagree) it should be banned - but I'm no expert.

Calor, as pointed out, can be very expensive but a lot depends on how you use your motorhome. If you must, buy a large AND a small bottle - assuming you've got room of course - so that you can use the small bottle as a reserve when the big one runs out, thus avoiding handing back unused gas.

I haven't voted because, as above, I wouldn't use either option. I know the initial outlay is quite high but the ease of filling, no handling heavy gas bottles and the cheapness of refill gas does it for me. You do get the cost back, all depends on how much you use of course. We've "won" four times the amount the system (2x6kg refillables) cost us. And you have no problems refilling if you're in Europe either, where you'd have to buy a different cylinder for each country.

You might consider an under-slung tank if you're a bit short of room.

I see no difference between connecting a pump to a fillsafe or a gas refill point connected to a gasit or gaslow other than the second also involves a refill tube and several connections which could become dammaged/leak with age. I have a gasit cyl one of our better buys but cannot see how a fillsafe is any less safe as long as it has the 80% fill valve and if taken out to fill is put back in properly.

 

[Lenny HB]

Our filler is in the locker never been questioned or stopped has anyone else or is it a myth put about by people who sell external filler kit?

No myth, I have an external filler and I got refused in Portugal. Girl came out and said we don't fill bottles. I pointed at my filler & told her it was a tank and she was OK with that.

 

[TerryL]

OK, going against the flow here.
We don't use huge quantities of gas but are in the process of running out a Calor cylinder and when done will switch over to a Safefill cylinder currently sitting alongside it.

Your choice. You know how to do it safely; think the original sentiment was aimed at a complete newbie.

 

[Gellyneck]

You know how to do it safely;

Yip, it's called take it to the Safefill distributor less than half a mile from us for them to fill before a trip!
Agree with your point on "complete newbie" and it would be sensible if the OP @The Baileys had a look at the Safefill website to see if they could be in a similar situation to ourselves and where they could fill whilst travelling. Morrison's stores with LPG fuel should permit filling but whether the word has spread to them all???

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