Filling (internal) gas tanks on the Forecourt ? (1 Viewer)

C

Chockswahay

Deleted User
Has any one been refused gas at a petrol station forecourt (that also sells LPG obviously) ?

The UKLPG User Information Sheet No 26 does not fill me with confidence......

"It is the advice from UKLPG that user owned, portable LPG cylinders should not be refilled at self service autogas refuelling sites."

rest of it here....

.

I wish to fit 2x11kg refillable system (Gas-It or Gaslow) and the advice given by both companies is to fit the remote filling system to an internal locker saving the need to drill holes in the body work etc etc.

I know there is a thread elsewhere on the subject but my question is simply this.....

If you have a Fiat based van conversion (or similar) have you ever been refused gas when opening the backdoors to access your gas filling point?
 

haganap

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I'm an oldbie MH number 9
My LPG is Gaslow, It is filled by lifting the locker door and then filling. I have had it for nearly 8 years and never been refused here or abroad.

I am not aware of anyone that has been refused filling here in the UK, although some "rumours" abound of people in France being refused, but again, always someone who was told by someone else.

The fitting of Gaslow fillers was not reccomended for external fitting in locker doors BTW. I could not locate mine in a place suitable elsewhere, hence why it is mounted on a Gaslow fitting plate.
 
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OP
C

Chockswahay

Deleted User
My LPG is Gaslow, It is filled by lifting the locker door and then filling. I have had it for nearly 8 years and never been refused here or abroad.

I note you have a gas locker on your Bessacarr, my worry is that the forecourt 'attendant' might express concern when I open the van rear doors to fill up with gas :whatthe::Eeek:

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Jaws

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Why not put an external filler on your van ? Never ever any chance of an issue then :thumb:
 

Addie

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We went through 300+ liters of gas in our Adria Twin with a gas filler inside the locker behind the back door - never any issues filling up at all UK or abroad.
 

TheBig1

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Ive had one forcourt attendant check I wasnt filling gas bottles directly, and who said it was for automotive engine use only. He did ultimately authorise it though. as I had only opened the locker door to ensure the cylinders were turned off. got a filling point on the side of the van.

seriously, the filler point doesnt look too different to the water filler so it blends in well

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hilldweller

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If you have a Fiat based van conversion (or similar) have you ever been refused gas when opening the backdoors to access your gas filling point?

I saw the light and cut a hole in the side for an external filler. They can't tell what you are filling. Also, if you peel "Gaslow" off the filler cover it reads "Autogas".
 
Jan 27, 2009
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If you have a Fiat based van conversion (or similar) have you ever been refused gas when opening the backdoors to access your gas filling point?[/QUOTE]


I have been refused a refill at the Calorgas Centre at Penwortham, Preston.
The guy got quite nasty when I enquired for what reason. All he could keep repeating was 'It's not company policy'. No further explanation was forthcoming from their HQ either.
I have an external filler point, and make sure now that my internal tanks (Stako) are not on show,and up to now that was the only time I have had a problem in the UK.
I did have some problems in Poland where they actually came out to check what I wanted the LPG for, before refusing to switch the pump on.
 
Last edited:
Oct 29, 2008
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I keep my gas in a bucket as its heavier than air. For some reason they wont let me fill up on the forecourts. Its perfectly safe as the bucket is a fire bucket and has a lid :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

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Last edited:
Nov 6, 2008
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8 years with an RV
I asked at a place in Derbyshire if i could fill gas bottles (American white bottles), the attendant said, "sure, where are they", and filled then up in situ.

Craig
 

scotjimland

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I've highlighted the paragraph pertinent to the OP question ..


Filling LPG gas bottles on forecourts
Nick Brown made this Freedom of Information request to Health and Safety Executive.


Dear Sir,

Please provide the following information:

1 The guidance given by the Petroleum Enforcement Liaison Group on
the filling of gas bottles with LPG (a) in a bottle refilling plant
(b) using a properly constructed all-metal bayonet style vehicle
filling adaptor; and (c) in other respects

2 The guidance given by the Petroleum Enforcement Liaison Group to
petroleum forecourt operators, on the filling of gas bottles with
LPG

3 Whether the recipients of guidance Item 2 above includes
specifically BP retail, Shell and Asda Stores

4 The other recipients of the guidance Item 2 above

5 Guidance on the technical differences (embracing safety and other
technical aspects) differentiating the filling of a vehicle with
LPG using a bayonet filler and filling a gas bottle per Item 1(b)
above.

For the avoidance of doubt this is a requisition under the Freedom
of Information Act.

Yours faithfully
Nick Brown

Reply

Health and Safety Executive

19 July 2012

Dear Mr Brown

I provide the following responses to your questions submitted to HSE on 26
June 2012 under the Freedom of Information Act.

The Petroleum Enforcement Liaison Group (PELG) was originally formed and
met under the auspices of HSE. Since 2009 PELG has operated independently
of HSE and is now hosted by the Energy Institute, although HSE continues
to provide technical support for the group. The information provided is
therefore based on HSE's understanding of the guidance given by PELG on
the issues you have raised.

Question1. The guidance given by the Petroleum Enforcement Liaison Group
on the filling of gas bottles with LPG:

(a) in a bottle refilling plant

Petroleum Enforcement Liaison Group (PELG) has not issued any guidance
with respect to filling of gas bottles in a bottle refilling plant.

(b) using a properly constructed all-metal bayonet style vehicle filling
adaptor;

PELG has not issued guidance with respect to filling gas bottles with an
adaptor.

(c) in other respects

PELG has not issued guidance 'in other respects' aside from that detailed
under Question 2.

Question 2 The guidance given by the Petroleum Enforcement Liaison Group
to petroleum forecourt operators, on the filling of gas bottles with LPG.

PELG has given the following guidance in the publication 'Petrol Filling
Stations - Guidance on Managing the Risks of Fire & Explosion (The Red
Guide)' published by CFOA (The Chief Fire Officers' Association) (2010),
which is aimed at site operators and managers of petrol filling stations
to enable them to comply with the relevant health & safety law, in
particular their statutory duties under the Dangerous Substances and
Explosive Atmospheres Regulations 2002:

Portable LPG Cylinders
23) Customers or untrained attendants should not be allowed to fill
portable LPG cylinders from the autogas dispenser.

Note explaining the rationale for this restriction:
The filling of cylinders (pressure vessels) requires an appropriate level
of expertise and equipment to ensure that the filling is carried out
safely. Additionally, the person filling a cylinder needs to carefully
inspect all the external surfaces (including the base and the valve) for
evidence of damage; the markings need to be checked to ensure that the
cylinder is not overdue for periodic testing. After carrying out these
checks, care has to be taken to prevent overfilling; the percentage fill
varies with the size of cylinder, this can be 80 to 87%. The filling of
cylinders requires the use of an adaptor which gives rise to the
additional risks listed in paragraph 5.14.

[HI]LPG containers that are securely attached to a vehicle (e.g. camper van)
for heating or cooking purposes may be filled from the autogas dispenser
on the proviso that they: - remain in-situ for re-filling;
- are fitted with an internal device to physically prevent filling
beyond 80% of the full capacity; and
- are a fixed filling connector which is not part of the vessel.[/HI]

Question 3 Whether the recipients of guidance Item 2 above includes
specifically BP retail, Shell and Asda Stores

HSE has no information as to whether BP retail, Shell and Asda Stores have
received or accessed the guidance referred to in Item 2.

Question 4 The other recipients of the guidance Item 2 above

HSE has no information as to those who have received or accessed the
guidance referred to in Item 2.

Question 5 Guidance on the technical differences (embracing safety and
other technical aspects) differentiating the filling of a vehicle with LPG
using a bayonet filler and filling a gas bottle per Item 1(b) above.

The rationale for the guidance is included in the response to Question 2.

If you have any queries about this letter, please contact me. Please
remember to quote the reference number above in any future communications.

Yours sincerely

John Hazeldean

HM Principal Specialist Inspector

HSE technical representative on PELG

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/filling_lpg_gas_bottles_on_forec
 
Feb 1, 2011
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26 yrs
coldstreamer

Hi,
Why not put the 'Filler' in the skirt close by, I done this added a couple of brackets underneath for support and never had a problem all over europe in the last 10 yrs.
I will say I had some good advice if your using re-fillable bottles in Spain, just have one, because finding filling stations is a prob.
I have one refillable and one to suit the country I'm in, so at home I have gathered over the years.. One English..One French..One German
One Spanish and One Irish.. so what ever country I am visiting for any lenght of time I pop on. Seems to work.
Best Regards, Mac

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Stephen & Jeannie

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Aug 27, 2008
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9 years !!!!
My LPG is Gaslow, It is filled by lifting the locker door and then filling. I have had it for nearly 8 years and never been refused here or abroad.

I am not aware of anyone that has been refused filling here in the UK, although some[HI] "rumours[/HI]" abound of people in France being refused, but again, always someone who was told by someone else.

The fitting of Gaslow fillers was not reccomended for external fitting in locker doors BTW. I could not locate mine in a place suitable elsewhere, hence why it is mounted on a Gaslow fitting plate.

Fact dear Boy, fact !!!:Blush:

On the way through France on the border, called at a garage to fill up via an external socket. Started pumping and a French harridan came screaming and yelling from the kiosk shouting it's illegal !! :Doh:

Played dumb (easy peasy for moi !) and kept going ! she tore the filler from my hands and replaced it !

Too late, it was full !!:Cool::Cool::Cool:
 
May 21, 2008
4,244
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Oxford
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Since 2008
Difficult in Oxford

to fill up LPG tanks on motorhomes - there are only 2 stations, the Cowley one never seems to have any and the other, a big Shell station at well-known Pear Tree roundabout off the A34, keeps having dangerous leaks - see

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/10166366.LPG_leak_closes_station_again/

I have filled up once there and it was really difficult to lock on to the pump - even the station staff, who are actually told NOT to help customers with this, were initially unable to do it. It should be easier to do!

Catherine
 

MikeandCarolyn

Free Member
Mar 18, 2008
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Since 2009
OK-I've not had any problems in 3 yrs in UK or Europe. I have an underslung fixed tank with a filler on the coachwork.

I am aware of 2 regulations governing the sale of LPG on the forecourt both in UK and Europe.
1. LPG is sold for propulsion and not for domestic use.
2. The filling of Gas Bottles on a forecourt is not allowed.

Point 1 is the only one that could affect me so I always fill with LPG first to give the impression that it is for propulsion. My understanding is that this regulation is not often applied.

Point 2. If you come to a halt beside the LPG pump and open a locker door,what is the attendant going to assume if he sees you doing that ? If he is a 'Job's Worth' and in a bad mood he'll just refuse you gas.

If you are relying on someones good will to slightly bend the regs or not apply them when he/she thinks (rightly or wrongly) that you are trying to contravene those regs I feel it's best not go get into that situation in the first place. :thumb:

Mike

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Spacerunner

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Apr 7, 2008
607
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7
Had my Gaslow fitted for 4 years now and never been turned away when filling.
Even in France when, by mistake , I pressed the emergency shut off button, all I got was a 'look' and deep sigh from the French operator as she stomped across the forecourt to reset the pump.
In Scotland I was put to shame by a delicate young girl who had to assist me to connect the filler hose (stop giggling and wash your minds out) and no comment about the gas cylinders.
My advice just carry on if one forecourt refuses you just find another someone will want your money.
 

JeanLuc

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Nov 17, 2008
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Not so difficult near Oxford though

to fill up LPG tanks on motorhomes - there are only 2 stations, the Cowley one never seems to have any and the other, a big Shell station at well-known Pear Tree roundabout off the A34, keeps having dangerous leaks - see

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/10166366.LPG_leak_closes_station_again/

I have filled up once there and it was really difficult to lock on to the pump - even the station staff, who are actually told NOT to help customers with this, were initially unable to do it. It should be easier to do!

Catherine

I realise this does not give you an Oxford-based solution, but if you tend to travel west from the City, may I suggest you get an account with Countrywide Farmers.
http://www.countrywidefarmers.co.uk...EnergyAutogas&pgForward=businesscontentbasic#

They will provide you with an electronic key to their pump network and charge you by direct debit at the end of each month for whatever you have used. Also tell them it is for Motorhome cooking and heating and you will be charged 5% VAT. The nearest pumps to Oxford are at Witney, Chipping Norton and Banbury.
 

flatpackchicken

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to fill up LPG tanks on motorhomes - there are only 2 stations, the Cowley one never seems to have any and the other, a big Shell station at well-known Pear Tree roundabout off the A34, keeps having dangerous leaks - see

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/10166366.LPG_leak_closes_station_again/

I have filled up once there and it was really difficult to lock on to the pump - even the station staff, who are actually told NOT to help customers with this, were initially unable to do it. It should be easier to do!

Catherine

Hi Catherine, I to could not get the Peartree connection to work either, think they have a dodgy connector????,, There is also 2 other LPG sites for you to use and they both work ok as i have used both of them living in Bicester Nr you just ib case you dont know about them,, 1 is at the Homefarm BP gge on the n/b A34 just before the M40 and No 2 Is in Bicester on the London road Shell gge just past the old railwaylevel croosing station, both have very good access and both good to fill up with filler on the side on m/h and have had no problem in either. Regards Garry Flatpackchicken

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Spacerunner

Free Member
Apr 7, 2008
607
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7
I realise this does not give you an Oxford-based solution, but if you tend to travel west from the City, may I suggest you get an account with Countrywide Farmers.
http://www.countrywidefarmers.co.uk...EnergyAutogas&pgForward=businesscontentbasic#

They will provide you with an electronic key to their pump network and charge you by direct debit at the end of each month for whatever you have used. Also tell them it is for Motorhome cooking and heating and you will be charged 5% VAT. The nearest pumps to Oxford are at Witney, Chipping Norton and Banbury.

Countrywide are brilliant just wish they would set up more outlets.
 
OP
OP
C

Chockswahay

Deleted User
Thank you everyone for your replies :Smile:

I will probably go for the external filler just to make life easier :Smile:

Cheers
 
Mar 26, 2009
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Grahame, I've just bought the whole fitting kit from Gas-it and opted for the external filler simply to avoid potential hassle.:thumb:


PS Haven't fitted it yet though

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sedge

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Well FWIW we had Bessie new, she came home, Pete fitted the Gaslow cylinders and a filler that is fixed to the internal ceiling of the gas locker, so you open the gas locker door to fill them.

The only place we have had any hassle was 2 years ago at a Shell station on a motorway in France, blowed if I can recall where.

The minute he'd finished filling, a geezer from the 'shop' came over to give him some grief. Pete carried on replacing the hose on the pump, and locked up the locker whilst saying nothing and smiling. Guy had found a few words of English to add to the voluble French, telling us we were going to explode. Aparently. So we proceeded to the diesel pump and filled that up, then went and parked (in a designated parking spot) as close as poss to his building. Then we went in and the guy was behind the till.

Pete said presumably if I'm not allowed to do that, you won't be charging me for the gas then? However he didn't seem to think that was at all amusing. We paid.

Then went and had our lunch in their cafe. Utterly crap lunch, hence why I wish I could remember where it was.

That is literally the only time ever we've had any trouble anywhere so far!

Oh - and we haven't exploded, yet by the way .......
 
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C

Chockswahay

Deleted User
Decision made ....

Just to wrap this up I should add that the dealer we are buying the MH from has offered me an all in price including external filler at a price that keeps us both happy :Smile::Smile:

I have bought neither the cheapest nor the most expensive, just what makes me feel comfortable.

Thanks again guys for your valued input :Smile:

(these are those times when MHF is more than just fun :winky:)

Cheers :Cool:
 

ubuntu1

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gas

Safefill have done a good job of educating the industry. They have a web page that lists the LPG stations that understand our needs and allow proper refillable cylinders to be refilled. There is nothing unlawful in filling a properly designed and tested refillable cylinder.

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MikeandCarolyn

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Mar 18, 2008
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Safefill have done a good job of educating the industry. They have a web page that lists the LPG stations that understand our needs and allow proper refillable cylinders to be refilled. There is nothing unlawful in filling a properly designed and tested refillable cylinder.



I copied this from their website-I would want to know that I could fill anywhere before I considered that route.

"LPG is now available on many petrol station forecourts however as the industry has had concerns about people illegally filling rented cylinders, you may be refused in many of these until the Safefill message has been completely understood."

Mike.
 

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