Fiat, yes or no? (1 Viewer)

[Badknee]

Having never owned or driven a Fiat I don't know for myself but I have been reading some horror stories about juddering in reverse and losing 5th gear.

I have driven VW, Transit, Boxer, Citroen, Trafic and not had any such worries, is it worth me being put off buying one as there are some great Moho's out there built on their chassis?

Confused of Bolton.

 

[Phill D]

Yes I heard it wasn't possible too

i bow to your superior knowledge , but i would think that its not beyond your technical prowess

 

[Techno]

No need I don't have filter or filter housing issues

Also as you can obtain the complete unit £90 brand spanking then it is easier to change the whole thing yourself rather than pay a garage £50 plus labour to fit a new element.
Then you can give me your old ones to recycle

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[Phill D]

i'm lucky i have the new type fitted

 

[Badknee]

maybe i got the wrong end of the stick with the engines,

most that had any judder problems were sorted with 1 of 2 different modifications. ( wont go into what mods for now ) but i guess some could still be out there. a good test drive should sort out any concerns.

Over filling the gearbox with oil, changing the engine mounts were what I've seen.

 

[bigfoot]

I had a 2008 Autotrail on a £ litre 160 and the clutch went after less than 200 miles,the engine battery failed after 6 months,the entire dashboard display lit up like Blackpool illuminations whilst doing 68 mph on the M6!
Fiats breakdown assist was useless and always late. The representative from Fiat UK was very uncooperative when we complained about this and other issues,they even refused to let me see a report on a road test that their Fiat Professional service had done,saying it was 'in the system'? and they wouldn't let me sit in while doing the road test-IN MY OWN VEHICLE! It will be a cold day in hell before I buy another pile of this Italain junk!

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[B-well]

I have just been quoted £536.00 for the requisite bits to replace my 5th gear and synchro.
This quote was from Fiat for supply only!

Has anyone any other suggestions of where to obtain these parts.

Should I start a separate thread of answers to Fiat!!!
cydersyd, Oct 29, 2010 Report

Perhaps its only on the older end units?

 

[Forestboy]

I was worried about buying a Fiat as well, certainly wasn't my first choice but I couldn't find the layout I wanted within my budget on any other chasis and not a great Merc fan as I've had huge problems in the past with them.

Four years on I can honestly say that its been perfect and apart from replacing the clutch because I wasted money on a remap it hasn't missed a beat.

2004 2.8 JTD A class Hymer tag axle 25ft running at 4750kgs 25 mpg use all year round even for skiing in the Alps in winter.

Still wish it wasn't on a Fiat but there's no logic behind that, a bit like saying Skodas are still crap, we're on our third.

 

[landscaper]

Had ours from new in 2007 and almost frightened to say it in case it tempts fate - but absolutely no problem and very pleased with the way it pulls!

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[Flyingscotsman2]

Wat ever u bye ull have problems so it's best to get a good dealer who will stand bye u if it goes wonky

 

[Peter & Elaine]

We have a fiat 2.3 multy jet running just over 3.5 ton most of time
And some times with trike on tow at over 4 ton
And I can't really fault it it pulls ok up any hill we have been over and some hills most motorhomes owners would not look
in morocco and Scotland
Its returns anything between 25 and 30 to gallon
If we did change vans again I would consider another fiat

 

[Steve]

i dont think i would be for wrong to say that 75% of the mh's i see at rallies are of some Fiat type. Speaking from my experince again, are we all wrong? if you are looking for perfection? i wish you well.

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[Minxy]

The fiat juddergate fiasco went on for a long time and it was generally accepted that any Fiat base vehicle built from 2010 onwards would be okay but you do need to check this out as some MHs and campers are built well in advance of their registration date so you could buy a 2011 registered one and find the base was made in 2009 ... it does happen!

It took a long time before Fiat accepted anything was wrong and even longer to offer any sort of 'acceptable' refinement to alleviate the problem of judder as the earlier, and no doubt cheaper, ones didn't work in a lot of cases - and the later supposed 'fix' didn't actually fully work for some vehicles which still experienced some judder with no further recourse to Fiat.

We changed our Ford Mk 6 MH (Rimor) in 2010 for a Ford Mk 7 MH (Chausson) as we did NOT want to take the risk of the awful Fiat judder fiasco happening to us and were fortunate at the time to find a van on the Ford base that met our needs at the time. Then in 2012 we changed it again for our current June 2012 registered Fiat X250 based Autocruise being content that the juddergate fiasco had been resolved on later base vehicles as Fiat had redesigned the gear box and changed the rear gear ratio so it was lower ... but I did insist on checking when the base had been built by Fiat (late 2011).

We do find that it does occasionally have some very mild 'judder' in reverse but usually only if the surface isn't ideal or slippery, however hubby was treating it as he did our car when reversing and being quite gentle with it so advising him to put a little bit more power on has solved the problem.

Putting more power on in reverse was actually recommended by Fiat when the original juddergate issues came about but the reverse gear ratio in these earlier vans was much higher so you had to literally fly backwards which was very dangerous and not a realistic solution and even then didn't remove the judder in each case!

I think though that the problem lies a bit with the design of the X250 itself - it is VERY car like, much more so than any other of their offerings or those of some other manufacturers, so it does lull you into thinking you can treat it more like a car when driving, but you have to remember that these are designed as commercial vehicles first and foremost, and therefore they are not as refined as a car would be which you can usually reverse very, very slowly without any problem whatsoever. None of the base vehicles we've ever had, including previous incarnations of Fiat, have been as 'perfect' as a car in this regard, in fact when we got a new Rapido 709F in 2003 it didn't like going up low ramps at all with the clutch becoming very hot and smelly which was a much bigger problem when trying to level the van!

So, IMV, anything built on a chassis produced from 2010 onwards shouldn't have the horrendous juddergate issues that the earlier models experienced, but you MUST check the chassis build date and also do some extended test driving to ensure that whichever vehicle you are interested in getting doesn't suffer (assuming it's a used one of course!).

 

[Badknee]

We have seen some great vans both Fiat and none Fiat, at the moment we haven't found the layout that exactly fits our needs and wants. When we have got our layout sorted we will then decide if the engine/ chassis is going to do the job for us.
As far as Fiat post 2010 I don't think the bank account can stretch that far but thanks for the very interesting and informative post Minx.

 

[busby]

I have just been quoted £536.00 for the requisite bits to replace my 5th gear and synchro.
This quote was from Fiat for supply only!

Has anyone any other suggestions of where to obtain these parts.

Should I start a separate thread of answers to Fiat!!!
cydersyd, Oct 29, 2010 Report

Perhaps its only on the older end units?

Cost me less than £200 ,,he did it at the roadside in about an hour. This was on a 1996 van. BUSBY

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[busby]

The only real problem we've had with our bought-new '05 Ducato 2.3 was the driver's side front wheel bearing went way before its time and was replaced under warranty, but MH wheel bearings are under a heavy load anyway, so a faulty one will show quickly. The gear knob managed to work loose and needed replacing, and one of the hoses on the turbo needed a jubilee clip replacing quite early on - apparently that was a known issue.

No other problems to date, and no fifth gear or reverse judder issues. MPG has been consistent throughout and I've never seen the temperature gauge rise above halfway. I put fuel system cleaner through it regularly and am very happy with how it all works. I'd buy another Fiat if I needed to, and have a Fiat car too.

You only got the juddering on new shape early Fiats Peugeot and Citroens..the fifth gear problem was on 2.5 vans because fifth gear was an add on to the old four speed boxes and had lubrication issues. Cheap to repair...BUSBY.

 

[B-well]

5th gear replacement.
Okay done it myself, jacked n/s of van up, removed wheel for easy access but no need, and can be done on side of road.
Drain oil 2.7 litres, remove 5th gear cover on end of g/box exposing x2 cogs, one nut C type can be undone with sharp blow from blunt chisel. replaced 5th gear, kit costing £274 as several teeth were missing, swarth attached to magnet which i placed outside of cover when gear went, selectors were okay however i turned selector gear around as no 6th gear ,so teeth not worn on other edge side.
replaced oil £30.60 this has to done through reverse light switch found on top of G/box. Old Oil was clear and gold colour but did not want to chance returning to box. gear cover gasket is rubber and can be re used.

Be careful when removing selector gear as x3 springs and ball bearings likely to pop out, do check mechanism is moving properly though slight resistance felt as bearings seat. the whole cluster 5th gear and selector mechanism can be slid of the shaft as one piece, remember to remove selector fork nut though..
estimate that job could be undertaken in a couple of hours now i know what to do, awaited for Fiat parts 2 days
looked on e-bay for comparison ,however teeth numbers are different so this would alter the gearing ratio, and i did not want to chance it.
The citroen and peugeot gearbox do sometimes differ in gearing and locking nuts sizes used on gear shafts, If you replace the selector mechanism this is another £330 odd.
But be careful if you have difficulty with engaging other gears as this may require G/box overhaul.
to date only covered approx 50 miles but all working and no unusual noises. hope this is useful.

 

[Badknee]

As an update we are picking up our new to us 2003 Autocruise Wentworth and it's not on a Fiat chassis .

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[PP Bear]

Fiat!!! Hell Yes!!!

So far 3 very happy years

 

[DuxDeluxe]

As an update we are picking up our new to us 2003 Autocruise Wentworth and it's not on a Fiat chassis .

If it is on a Peugeot chassis then it is the same thing - built by Fiat at the Sevel production facility as a joint venture between Fiat and Peugeot/Citroen....... Not a bad thing at all.

 

[stcyr]

Just passed 4th. mot (in our ownership), once again without any advisories whatsoever.

She's cost us, so far, £2.90 for a steering gaiter and £40 for a recon alternator - original alternator was working ok but we changed it a couple of years ago 'just in case' - keep the old one as a spare ...

And she's a 1991 ... can't complain about Fiat reliability/running costs

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[Techno]

As an update we are picking up our new to us 2003 Autocruise Wentworth and it's not on a Fiat chassis .

What size engine?

 

[Badknee]

What size engine?

It's a 2.8

 

[Badknee]

If it is on a Peugeot chassis then it is the same thing - built by Fiat at the Sevel production facility as a joint venture between Fiat and Peugeot/Citroen....... Not a bad thing at all.

Do you know I'm just happy to have the Peugeot badge on the front right or wrong, personal choice that's all.

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[tambo]

Sounds like a 2.8 fiat engine to me ....same as mine

 

[Badknee]

Sounds like a 2.8 fiat engine to me ....same as mine

That's ok, no probs with that at all

 

[scotjimland]

Do you know I'm just happy to have the Peugeot badge on the front right or wrong, personal choice that's all.

Classic ..

I've been researching new PVCs and it's nigh on impossible to find any built on anything other than a Sevel chassis.
I'd be happier with Ford.. but I understand why most converters use Sevel ..

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[robnchris]

This old chestnut again, the facts about the Fiats reverse gear judder are simple, if you have a Euro 4 engine the gear box had reverse judder.
For the the smaller engines when Fiat finally accepted there was a fault they had a fix, a new gear box.
For the 3 ltr there wasn`t a fix, I know this as ours was tested by Fiat and they agreed there was a judder but nothing could be done about it.
I took the motorhome back to the dealers and short story is they gave me in writing an agreement that if they gearbox or clutch failed in the next 3 years they would pay all costs.

 

[Techno]

Mine is 2008 3.0 litre Auto is that euro 4? I have no reversing or clutch issues

 

[peterc10]

This old chestnut again, the facts about the Fiats reverse gear judder are simple, if you have a Euro 4 engine the gear box had reverse judder.
F

Not sure what you call a Euro 4 engine. I have a 2.3L 2008 Fiat based motorhome and I have never encountered any clutch judder in any gear. I have a difficult reversing manoeuvre to get it in the spot I park it at home, but it always behaves itself impeccably Same for all reversing.

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[rickwiggans]

Regarding the judder - yes it was a major problem on some vehicles. After many months in denial, Fiat eventually held their hand up and admitted to a design issue. There are a million threads about it elsewhere. We had it on a brand new 2008 plate X250 2.3 litre. It was fixed by having all three "interventions". As I recall it was only the 2.3 litre versions that had the problem. The problem went away. As far as I am aware, the design of newer X250's don't have the issue. Our 2014 plate certainly doesn't. We also experienced the fuel filter leak, twice. It was, or is primarily a design issue. I watched the filters being changed on both occasions, and on both occasions, it was done correctly. After the second replacement, it didn't reoccur. However, as stated in the previous reply, the design has now been changed. Odd really, why change the design, if as Fiat maintained, there wasn't a problem! So, if you are looking at a new, or couple of years old model, you shouldn't have an issue. If it's earlier, check it out very carefully. Most problems with motorhome base vehicles occur on Fiats. Statistically, this is to be expected since the vast majority of builds are on Fiats. As stated above, you drastically cut down your choice of vans if you discount them.