Fiat X250 150 bhp vs 130bhp - timing belt replacement interval (1 Viewer)

[TheCaller]

I was talking timing belt (cam belt) replacement with my local independent garage. For most of us, it's age rather than mileage that dictates when these belts should be replaced.

General wisdom seems to be that they should be changed at 5 years, but the first question I was asked was "is your van 130 or 150bhp?" Their reference bible suggested 5 years for the 130bhp engine & 6 years for the 150bhp version.

Anyone else had similar advice?

 

[MikeD]

Not on a Fiat but changed the vw golf timing belt at around 13 years and around 65k and the caddy still going strong at 13 years and 50k.

The golf belt change at a vw dealer was about £190. I was at a volvo dealer and they quoted someone £700 for the belt change.

I do think it is a bit of a myth for five yearly change.

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

Just done my 150bhp at 6 years which is 1 year more than Fiat say. Water pump perfect so only belt kit done.
Old belt while perfectly serviceable it did have small cracks so was ready for change.
No way would I risk much longer as too much hassle and expense if it lets go.

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[Deneb]

Fiat state a maximum of 5 years or 192,000 km (if sooner) for 110, 130 and 150 multijet engines, and 5 years or 144,000 km (if sooner) for 115 multijet versions.

 

[TheCaller]

Just done my 150bhp at 6 years which is 1 year more than Fiat say.

Fiat state a maximum of 5 years or 192,000 km (if sooner) for 110, 130 and 150 multijet engines,

That's what I had thought too, but can anyone point to the source of that information?

This independent garage has a very good reputation locally. Like all independent garages, they subscribe to one of the industry database services that list information on service requirements (and much more) for most common vehicles. It was when they looked up Fiat X250 in that database that they were given different recommendations for the two different engines. The mileages at which to change were different too, but I didn't pay much attention to those as they were all way above anything my van is every likely to do.

 

[Geo]

Not on a Fiat but changed the vw golf timing belt at around 13 years and around 65k and the caddy still going strong at 13 years and 50k.

The golf belt change at a vw dealer was about £190. I was at a volvo dealer and they quoted someone £700 for the belt change.

I do think it is a bit of a myth for five yearly change.

I have repaired / replaced many many Engines of like minded thinkers
low mile users will do well to stick to the 5 Year Myth
Many workshops use a very expensive on line resource called AutoData for
up to the minuet servicing and repair information. circa £800 per year subscription
this resource is constantly updated with the latest manufactures recommendations
these can and do change on an almost daily basis cam belt change periods seem to change for a laugh believe me
many a court case is won and lost via AutoData "The Automotive Bible"
So dont be suprised if your Garage does offer variations to Gods Comedy Channel "Google"

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[Deneb]

That's what I had thought too, but can anyone point to the source of that information?

The Ducato owners handbook, Fiat technical repair information and Iveco New Daily repair manual for F1A multijet engine.

 

[MikeD]

I have repaired / replaced many many Engines of like minded thinkers
low mile users will do well to stick to the 5 Year Myth
Many workshops use a very expensive on line resource called AutoData for
up to the minuet servicing and repair information. circa £800 per year subscription
this resource is constantly updated with the latest manufactures recommendations
these can and do change on an almost daily basis cam belt change periods seem to change for a laugh believe me
many a court case is won and lost via AutoData "The Automotive Bible"
So dont be suprised if your Garage does offer variations to Gods Comedy Channel "Google"

I have the greatest respect for you @Geo even though we have never met.

We tend to keep our vehicles for a good while.

But I am 66 years old and never had a timing belt failure. Living on my luck maybe.

 

[joka250]

Other streams over recent weeks suggest strongly change belt at 5 years no later if not achieving high mileage plus i would never change a belt without changing water pump tensioner and rollers, if customers refused this i refused the job. Any part that fails high probability of destroyed engine. On modern, (last 20 years or so) engines almost a guarantee of destruction. Difference between 130 and 150 b h p engine, as far as I aware, is the turbo and engine mapping, pretty certain Same cam belt. Hate to say it but any body pushing their luck with cam belt changes is being foolish.

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[dave newell]

I have the greatest respect for you @Geo even though we have never met.

We tend to keep our vehicles for a good while.

But I am 66 years old and never had a timing belt failure. Living on my luck maybe.

Well I'm 56 and have had the wife's cars timing belt fail several years ago and currently have my son's Audi in bits after a timing chain failure. It's known in the motor trade as the "Dirty harry" question: do ya feel lucky punk? Well do ya?

D.

 

[Chris]

We have just had ours done at 5 years, 15k miles.

It’s a 130bhp.

Not worth the risk not to I don’t think

 

[MikeD]

Well I'm 56 and have had the wife's cars timing belt fail several years ago and currently have my son's Audi in bits after a timing chain failure. It's known in the motor trade as the "Dirty harry" question: do ya feel lucky punk? Well do ya?

D.

Been lucky so far Dave. But as u have lots of past experience fixing them you will definitely be on the top of my list to repair my van

Can i book it in for around 2030 pls?

Ps: on a more serious note will u do my hab check next year - my health permitting ?

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[hilldweller]

I do think it is a bit of a myth for five yearly change.

Our first change at 5 years, the belt looked like new. But the tensioner pulley was just about to collapse.

 

[Larby]

I bought low mileage MH, 2.8 JTD Ducato, only 19,000 miles but 8 years old, so belt almost certainly 10 years old.
When belt removed it looked new, but look what lack of use had done to pulley, the grease had also dried out so failure would have been due to pulley, not the belt.

 

[dave newell]

Been lucky so far Dave. But as u have lots of past experience fixing them you will definitely be on the top of my list to repair my van

Can i book it in for around 2030 pls?

Ps: on a more serious note will u do my hab check next year - my health permitting ?

Sure, just phone the office to book it in when you're ready. If it's between Feb and June be sure to give us plenty of notice as we're currently booked up for the next six weeks.

D.

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[Chris]

If I’m honest I don’t even know what a timing belt is or what it does.

Until I joined this forum I didn’t know there was such a thing.

 

[Larby]

If I’m honest I don’t even know what a timing belt is or what it does.

Until I joined this forum I didn’t know there was such a thing.

I am unsure what Solicitors are for.............

 

[TheCaller]

Many workshops use a very expensive on line resource called AutoData forup to the minuet servicing and repair information. circa £800 per year subscription
this resource is constantly updated with the latest manufactures recommendations

Now that you mention it, I think it was AutoData that they had used to look it up. So that's where the 6 years suggestion for the 150bhp engine probably came from. Certainly Auto something. Must pay more attention!

So dont be suprised if your Garage does offer variations to Gods Comedy Channel "Google"

It was partly the surprising relative silence of Google on the subject that led me to ask on here. In fact a good proportion of what Google did come up with was posts on here anyway.

I've only had the van for 4 1/2 years, but it sat around as factory stock for most of 2013, so it's over 5 years since the belt was installed. Sitting stationary tight round a pulley for months is not the best treatment for a belt either. We use the van all year round, so although the mileage is still low, at least it doesn't sit still all winter, as some vans do. 10 days without moving would be unusual for us, even when based at home (only vehicle, but work from home, supermarket 250 yds, town centre 350yds ).

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[TheCaller]

If I’m honest I don’t even know what a timing belt is or what it does.

Until I joined this forum I didn’t know there was such a thing.

It goes round your waist Chris & keeps time with your right arm (unless you are left handed).
When you have been sitting around drinking for 5 years without moving very much, it's inclined to snap & everything falls all over the place & is a major job to put everything back together.

If you are a high mileage drinker, it can fail earlier than that, so after several thousand kms (European abbreviation for cans), you have to change it earlier to avoid a terrible mess.

 

[Chris]

It goes round your waist Chris & keeps time with your right arm (unless you are left handed).
When you have been sitting around drinking for 5 years without moving very much, it's inclined to snap & everything falls all over the place & is a major job to put everything back together.

If you are a high mileage drinker, it can fail earlier than that, so after several thousand kms (European abbreviation for cans), you have to change it earlier to avoid a terrible mess.

I need to change mine then I think.

I have done my 10,000 steps today though

 

[TheCaller]

Done a bit more asking around & had some interesting suggestions - including one from a Fiat Professional dealer that 8 years was the recommended time.

I think I know what was behind that one. The Fiat service schedule in the owner's manual has three rows across the top, row 1 is '000s of miles, row 2 is '000s of km & row 3 is Months. Underneath that are rows for each job, with a black dot in the column under the appropriate number of miles.

So as the timing belt has to be changed at 120,000 miles, the dot appears under that column. But the 120,000 mile column is also the 96 month (8yrs) column. In the text, there is a little (*) mark that refers to a separate note saying that regardless of mileage, the belt must be changed every 4 years for particularly demanding use (cold climates, town driving, long periods of idling) or at least every 5 years. I can only assume that someone failed to spot the link to the note.

It's the same for both the 130 & 150 MultiJet engine, whereas the AutoData lookup suggested an extra year for the 150.

Now my owner's manual is Edition 1 from Sept 2012 & no doubt was written before that. So this would be Fiat's expectation for what was then a new engine type. I imagine they would err on the side of caution. So it's quite possible that the AutoData advice of 6 years for the 150 MultiJet is Fiat's amended advice in 2018. It doesn't follow that it's necessarliy wrong just because it's not the same as the owner's manual dished out with the vehicle when it left the factory. As @Geo pointed out, these recommendations do change over time.

My van is low mileage for a van, at 30,000 miles in 4 1/2 years. That's still more than a lot of motorhomes & it's never been subjected to any of the conditions listed as 'demanding'. It doesn't sit without moving for long periods either, although there was 6 months between the date on the CoC & the delivery date. So it's back to the question @dave newell lvs asked - do I feel lucky?

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[joka250]

I would reiterate to anybody hesitating over cam belt changes, your choice in my opinion is, shall I spend a few hundred today or wait a while and risk spending many thousands. If you won't take it from me then listen to @dave newell lvs and also take note of @Larby photo.

 

[PP Bear]

The millions of pounds spent on cam belt changes. Can't see why they just don't design the engine with a better system, gears spring to mind.

However, I'm with the majority and don't like to risk it.

 

[dave newell]

The millions of pounds spent on cam belt changes. Can't see why they just don't design the engine with a better system, gears spring to mind.

However, I'm with the majority and don't like to risk it.
View attachment 226239

Over the decades just about all options of cam drive have been tried, belt, chain, shafts and years even a shaft at 90 degrees to crank and cam with bevel gears at each end and some modern engines use a belt running in oil! Gears are expensive to make and noisy in operation, chains are generally more reliable than belts but can still fail and are more expensive to make and replace.

D.

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[dave newell]

I would reiterate to anybody hesitating over cam belt changes, your choice in my opinion is, shall I spend a few hundred today or wait a while and risk spending many thousands. If you won't take it from me then listen to @dave newell lvs and also take note of @Larby photo.

This is a very good point, my son's Audi has thus far cost just over £1900 in parts alone and that's at trade prices! If I was charging labour as well it would be half as much again but then it is a pig to work on. A 2.3 Ducato rebuild assuming no major piston damage could easily reach three figures, piston or bore damage could double that cost. How lucky do you feel?

D.