Fiat Ducato problem cold start. (1 Viewer)

[joner8888]

1997 Fiat Ducato 2.5 TDI, 35k miles.
When starting from cold ,it starts first go but smokes like a train for a about 60 seconds.
There seems to be no glow/pre start light and is fine on hot starts and when running.
It is almost as if there is a incorrectly adjusted automatic choke, because when revving up, it sounds choked and pumps out blue/black smoke.

I can live with is but---when leaving a calm, quiet, campsite on a clear morning, it is as if i am leaving behind me a trail from the flying scotsman and leave all chocking on their bacon butties!!
Is there a choke on it than can be fixed?

 

[Snowbird]

Sounds to me like one of 3 things. Firstly it could be an injector dripping overnight leaving unburnt fuel on top of the piston. If the smoke smells of diesel,that's your problem. Secondly a blocked fuel filter will cause the same symptoms. Thirdly get your heater plugs checked.

 

[simsy56]

Or it could be the valve seals.

Craig

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[joner8888]

OK, Thanks for that.
I have just tried it this morning---no problem--no smoke :thumb:!

It seems to be a intermittent problem-- and yes it does smell of half burnt diesel (black) and sounds like it`s choked .
As if on a old manuall choked petrol car , the choke was left pulled out.
It clears after a short while bur stinks out a campsite!

 

[Terry]

Sounds like the turbo is on the way out.Take off air intake to turbo and put your finger on the turbo fan pin,try wobbling it.If it wobbles that's your problem :thumb: Do not worry too much they go for yrs like that,once it clears it's throat it is normal until cold again
terry

 

[joner8888]

Sounds to me like one of 3 things. Firstly it could be an injector dripping overnight leaving unburnt fuel on top of the piston. If the smoke smells of diesel,that's your problem. Secondly a blocked fuel filter will cause the same symptoms. Thirdly get your heater plugs checked.

I will try a redex diesel fuel system cleaner first,run that through and see what happens,it may unstick the injector!:thumb:

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[Snowbird]

I had the same problem here with my Peugeot 2.5 turbo diesel and had the injectors reconditioned. This cured it till I was up in the mountains and it started doing it again. I checked the fuel filter and found it half full of water and crap. Changed that and its been fine since.

 

[jhorsf]

So if this has no glowplug lights how does it cold start?
does it have glowplugs?

 

[Terry]

Not sure on this model but some common rail engines have no glow plug lights and direct injection (trannys) do not have glow plugs
terry

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[jhorsf]

On some 2.5 fiats the diesel is preheated if this is not working it would give these symptoms its usually a BERU GF 974 ? plug in the inlet manifold
its called a flame start system It would seem the flame glow plug fitted in the inlet manifold firstly heats up to temperature. Then some seconds later when the plug is hot and you start the engine the solenoid next to it is activated to divert some diesel into the plug. This ignites creating the flame.
not certain yours will have this but I would like a pound on it

 

[jhorsf]

http://www.beru.com/products/diesel...plugs/glow-plug-for-flame-starting-systems-gf

 

[jaygee]

if this is the fiat engine then as far as im aware these do not have heater plugs but rely on a small fuel injector which is fitted into inlet manifold.these engines can tend to smoke after start up and on idle.
Make sure Starter motor is top notch as this can effect supply to start injector
HTH
Tony

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[jhorsf]

It is not a small injector please read my post above

Some companies that make them call them thermostarters

 

[joner8888]

So if this has no glowplug lights how does it cold start?
does it have glowplugs?

I suppose it must have some glowplugs--there is no light at all for it.
I know that there is a symbol as a curly wire that should light up - but i can`t see any!

 

[Hycon]

I have a 2.5 Ducato Hymer with the Thermostart system as jhorsf discribes in his post.Same staring characteristics .Heater only comes on at minus temperatures and flashes for a while even when engine has started.
Sid

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[Phill D]

As you probably know deisels require atomised fuel and high compression to fire... when its cold the fuel does not atomise well enough to aid clean start ups, so some form of heater / method of aiding improved atomisation is usaully incorporated. to further complicate things these days you have computerised engine management systems.
i would be looking at injector pressures and whatever aid to cold starting is fitted ( deisels do not technically have a choke.

 

[joner8888]

Problem solved--
Read a few links from you guys on here.
It seems that i am used to modern diesels where i start, rev, and go,
This type has a flame plug on the manifold and i would have started it and revved it full boot trying to clear it, it just made it worse.:Blush:
I added some injector cleaner to the fuel and ran a few miles yesterday.
Cold start this morning-- i left it on idle for 30 seconds or so and pulled away.
NO smoke or choking sound! :thumb:
I think revving it was too much of a surge for a small flame plug to keep up and blew out unburned diesel.
Thanks for advice :thumb:
oh,also--turned off fridge/wipers/heater motor so starter got all the power.

 

[Terry]

Problem solved--
Read a few links from you guys on here.
It seems that i am used to modern diesels where i start, rev, and go,
This type has a flame plug on the manifold and i would have started it and revved it full boot trying to clear it, it just made it worse.:Blush:
I added some injector cleaner to the fuel and ran a few miles yesterday.
Cold start this morning-- i left it on idle for 30 seconds or so and pulled away.
NO smoke or choking sound! :thumb:
I think revving it was too much of a surge for a small flame plug to keep up and blew out unburned diesel.
Thanks for advice :thumb:
oh,also--turned off fridge/wipers/heater motor so starter got all the power.

Hi joner8888,check the turbo as these are the symptoms that presented when my turbo was going years ago hence my first post.
terry

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[simsy56]

You should never give a cold engine a boot full of throttle! An engine is like me, it likes to wake up first, warm up, then get ready for work.
Never, ever, thrash an engine from cold. Let the oil find it's way around and let it warm up first.

Craig

 

[Snowbird]

You should never give a cold engine a boot full of throttle! An engine is like me, it likes to wake up first, warm up, then get ready for work.
Never, ever, thrash an engine from cold. Let the oil find it's way around and let it warm up first.

Craig

How many people I see doing exactly thatoh: Also flog the horse to death all day and stop and switch off immediately instead of letting it cool down for a few minutes.

 

[otis the staffy]

What a egcellent thread you know even at 60 you lern sumthing new everyday any idea were i mite fined a spelcheeker not that i nead one but lucked everywere and carnt find one.Stay Safe:thumb:

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[joner8888]

I recon if ee luked in wordmicro thingy, it be iin there so as to elp ee speel:thumb:

 

[joner8888]

My motorhome only smokes when out on site.!
I have found with this smoke, start up problem is ;
If i start it at home, no smoke,
When i drive to a campsite ,stay overnight, start it in the morning, black clouds appear and everyone running for cover.
When i drive back home on the same route,leave it parked overnight, then try a test start the next morning --NO smoke?
Why does my M/H only want to smoke when we are living in it or away from home.
A secret smoker??

 

[Popeye]

My motorhome only smokes when out on site.!
I have found with this smoke, start up problem is ;
If i start it at home, no smoke,
When i drive to a campsite ,stay overnight, start it in the morning, black clouds appear and everyone running for cover.
When i drive back home on the same route,leave it parked overnight, then try a test start the next morning --NO smoke?
[HI]Why does my M/H only want to smoke when we are living in it or away from home[/HI].
A secret smoker??

Your parents have put a curse on it.

.......You remember when your Dad purposely tried to embarrass you in front of your friends, well that is what is happening here. MH waits until you are on site surrounded by like minded folk then Gasses them just to embarrass you, tell it who's boss, give it a beating........:thumb:

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[joner8888]

Your parents have put a curse on it.

.......You remember when your Dad purposely tried to embarrass you in front of your friends, well that is what is happening here. MH waits until you are on site surrounded by like minded folk then Gasses them just to embarrass you, tell it who's boss, give it a beating........:thumb:

I can see i am going to have words with it and fit one of these new fangled ,help give up smoking gadgets into the air cleaner -------I`ll show him who`s boss ---:thumb:

 

[Hayleylulu]

give it a try now the weather's getting warmer

 

[Fulltiming Felines]

My 1991 Hymer 534 Fiat Ducato 280 1.9 Turbo Diesel has a choke valve. How long should I leave the choke valve pulled out when starting? A minute? Do I need to let it idle for a while, or can I start driving?

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[gus-lopez]

My 1991 Hymer 534 Fiat Ducato 280 1.9 Turbo Diesel has a choke valve. How long should I leave the choke valve pulled out when starting? A minute? Do I need to let it idle for a while, or can I start driving?

Tis an 7 year old thread but mine also has one. I try never to use it & can get away with it here due to the warmer temps.
In the Uk I would say that once you are on the move push it back in. Don't forget as it overfuels the engine so it would have a tendency to smoke.
It is easy to forget as the position of it on my left hand drive tucked away to the left of the steering wheel means that it cannot be seen
Another thing to check is that when you have pulled it out & then push it back in , that it actually returns the lever fully to the closed position.After some years & not being used many have a tendency to stick