Fiat Ducato Dpf Sensor (1 Viewer)

OldAgeTravellers

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Hi @Deneb,
Thanks for the above.
As you say finding how to disassemble the connector in such a confined space is practically impossible so it would need to be cut off. So the vehicle is unusable until a replacement is found.

I suspect that it is a broken wire as by clamping it up so the weight of the loom is not hanging on the wires as they enter the plug it has made the connection, but for how long with the movement of the vehicle. Unfortunately this sensor cable combines with the other two CAT sensors into one bundle which then enters an ever increasing bundle towards the ECU and one very large plug as far as I can see.

The wires are all green but do have the faintest trace of a coloured line on them which is a bonus if I do have to cut it off.

I suspect that there is a repair kit as I am sure I am not the only person to experience this. Although the cost of a repair does not seem to be a deciding issue nowadays with labour charges as they are in dealerships. We have heard above that people have been charged £500 upwards for this problem. The sensor was an exorbitant €72 and with a pit or hoist the job would have taken a maximum of ten minutes which would include walking to the spares department so even €150 would be unreasonable.

Once I had bought the MultiEcuScan the diagnosis was just a few minutes and the fix would be a similar time with the correct spares or tools. My problem is an €80 round trip to get spares and always it would require being ordered in and that is if I know the part number. At the Fiat garage in Narbonne even having the part number was no use. There is a breakers i know of 80km round trip the other way in Carcassonne so I will try there on the off-chance they have a Ducato.

What I was really hoping for was that one of the Mechanics (Technicians now) on here, would look at my picture and say "Oh that is an XYZ plug you just push this little button and it opens up to change the wires". I am ever the optomist!

Vary many thanks to you and everybody else who has participated in this saga and given fantastic support.

Oh well better get back out to the van to do a few more mods while I can't use it for touring. But even with very bright sun it is still very cold here 14 deg but a biting North wind.

Steve
 

OldAgeTravellers

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Might be a Delphi connector of some sort - maybe one of?
Thanks for that, I seem to be useless at searching, I must ask the wrong questions. Was about to order one then the OH said we need to go shopping and I needed to get some more logs so it was worth the 80km round trip to Carcassonne.
I know of a breakers yard there but have never been in. It was similar to the UK ones with a counter. I took the old sensor and said I needed a plug to fit this and after looking under the counter where he had boxes of different sensors disappeared out to the yard for about fifteen minutes. Eventually he came back with the correct plug in very good condition with about a foot of wires attached obviously just cut off a vehicle. Yippee! And the best bit was "Gratuit" no charge! What a nice man.
Today's job is checking that the continuity is good then cutting the old plug off and soldering the cables together and insulating them while laying on the ground under the Camper. Hopefully that will be "job done" as while in Carcassonne I made an appointment for a re-test on Monday (hope it's not on other €115 :eek: ).
Thanks for all the fantastic help from everybody who contributed. I have learned a great deal about DPF's and also Bought the MultiEcuScan which I think will be of great help in future. It tells me that I need to buy a "yellow" plug though as my Bluetooth one will not allow me to reset the service indicator for some reason.
Next job is to learn about the EGR valve which I know absolutely nothing about except for reading @Techno 's write-up some time ago but he has a different engine. But MultiEcuScan says I have one, so I presume it is true. But the plug I do have has allowed me to re-calibrate for the new pressure sensor.
The most pleasing thing has been to find that the DPF has been regenerating OK and is not full as I feared even though this sensor cable problem has been causing the engine light to come on and go off for about a year now until it finally gave up when In Portugal occasionally putting the camper into semi limp-mode when going up hills, max speed 45kph. It has obviously connected for long enough to trigger a regen.
Great work guys, another success at least I hope so after today.
Steve

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SandraL

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So glad its all coming together for you.
Also thanks to all who posted, I have learnt from your experience, sure others have too.
 

Deneb

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Good to see you got lucky! Can I make one more suggestion, which will delay your repair a little but will hopefully make it more durable and less likely to reoccur.

Fiat's approved method of connecting cables when looms have to be cut, involves the use of heat shrink solder connectors to join the individual wires:

https://www.switchelectronics.co.uk...p-connectors-splices/solder-sleeves?limit=all

The link is just by way of an example. You can buy them on eBay, Amazon and elsewhere quite cheaply.

The cuts in the existing wiring and the corresponding wire lengths on your new plug should be staggered so that you don't end up with a bunch of the solder sleeves all in one place. When reconnected, cover the whole repair in another length of plain heat shrink tubing (which you have to put over the loom but slide out of the way before connecting the new plug, or you will never get it on).

I would then wrap the whole repair in self amalgamating tape for good measure.

You need a heat source for the solder connectors and heat shrink tubing, but it doesn't have to be expensive. My wife has a hobby type heat gun which cost less than £10. Alternatively, you may already have a paint stripper heat gun. Also a good idea to buy a glass fibre heat resistant mat to place behind the loom whilst completing the repair (about £5 or less) to prevent the risk of heat damage to any nearby components.

Hopefully, you will then have a durable repair which is unlikely to cause further problems bearing in mind the constant exposure to the elements beneath the van!
 

OldAgeTravellers

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Thanks once again Deneb. I had seen those connectors online and thought they would be useful in the toolbox but not enough time to get them now and because it is so tight in there without a pit I think a soldering iron would be safest. I have plenty of shrink sleeve to do the job, self amalgamating tape and a temperature controlled soldering iron and pretty good soldering skills.
I think the Fiat preferred method is because the average minimum wage grease monkey who would be given the job probably has no idea how to solder and those things look pretty foolproof. But thanks for pointing them out I will get some ordered when I come to the UK because I carry a mini blow-lamp/soldering-iron in the van and they would be great for a permanent cable repair on the road rather than Weico connectors.
Steve

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Deneb

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No problem Steve, sounds like you're sorted! I think the other benefit of those connect ford is that they also clamp the car either side of the solder, reducing stress on the joint.
 

jopim

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What should be the choice of multiecuscan that will make the calibration pressure difference between the sensor? i have multiecuscan 3.1
 

jopim

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It is right?

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jopim

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Korvattiin uusi anturi rikki. Haluaisin kalibroida anturin. se näyttää nyt 1000mbarilta
 

jopim

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I replaced the new sensor with a broken one. I'd like to calibrate the sensor. it now looks like 1000mbar

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jopim

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i try alfaobd "differential pressure sensor replacement" DPF but not work.this function resets the sensor pressure delta parameters stored in the ecu
 

Deneb

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You want the DPF pressure sensor recalibration function, same as the one you tried in AlfaOBD. It would be on the same page that you have uploaded an image of in MES.

It's either not listed because the function isn't available in your ECU (which could be why selecting it in AlfaOBD doesn't work) or you need a newer version of MES.

You can try downloading the current version of MES and see if the function is listed when connected to your van. If it isn't, it would confirm that your ECU doesn't support it.

If it is listed, I think you might have to buy a new licence for MES if yours has expired for updates, as I think the software has to be licensed to perform programming functions.
 

OldAgeTravellers

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Just to finalise the above saga. I soldered the new plug on with no bother except having cut the old cable none of the conductors seemed to be broken but one of the openings in the plug looked a little larger than the others so that may have caused the bad connection. So all fault codes cleared I took it for the retest yesterday which it passed so I now have a two year CT (MOT) as the law in France on heavyweight Camping Cars has now changed from every year to two years like below 3,500 kg. So apart from the €55 retest fee all is well.
So a further THANK YOU to all who contributed and sympathised with my problem. :thanks3:
Steve

:merci:

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thats the dpf end the sensor is at the other end of the 2 pipes you refer too. it will likely have 2 flexi pipes going into it with 2 clips on and 2 bolts holding it to the chassis .

if your chassis is a Ducato its right hand side on the chassis above the exhaust in front of the dpf. and look like this...

if its a Merc i dont know where it is but will look similar.

whatever you have you should not need to unscrew the pipes from the dpf unless you got an internal problem as they are just hollow pipes that transfer the air pressuire to the sensor.
fault code P2454 is related to dPF sensor readings so "probably" and most likely means your sensor is at fault. or its a partially blocked dpf.

View attachment 288680

you will not notice any normal regenation as its controlled by the ECU in simple terms it causes the engine to run hotter thus burning off the soot in the dpf.
the sensor controls when to tell the ecu to do this.

you will need to reset the codes after changing the sensor then the engine light should go out and hopefully stay out.

Thanks for that had the same issues with the code took off sensor and there was water in it read somewhere that can cause the issue. Drained it out and blew with air, seems to be working ok now with cleared fault codes.
If it persists or happens again may change it.
 

adrianlzt

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Hi!
I have found this thread looking for some info about dpf errors.

My history is similar as the others described here, but with a substantial difference.

I bought my second hand Fiat Ducati (x250) based motorhome 40 days ago.
We have to wait one week because it was at the workshop, waiting to replace the dpf pressure sensor.

24h after buying it, the engine led turned on because of p2452 (dpf sensor related).
Two days after I went to my local workshop, but the code was already gone.
They told me the dpf was 80% fill and they did a forced regeneration (I don't know the fill percentage after that regeneration).

They told us to make some km and come back in a couple of weeks.

After ~600km I came back, dpf was at 40% and they told us we are good to go.

Then I discovered the Fiat extension for Torque pro, that add some custom PIDs, between them, dpf temperature, dpf charge (%) and dpf regeneration (%).

So we started our trip with the phone in the dash showing those values.

Dpf charge has been increasing at a ~5% each 100km.
Dpf temperature varies, normally between 180-250°C and some times climbing to 300-450°C, normally at high speeds climbing some hill.

I was also talking a closer look to the instantaneous consumption. Many times, with the accelerator pedal released, it was showing a steady 2.0L/100km.

I have read that while regeneration is on course, it is expected to have that behavior.

So all the times that the temperature started to climb over 350°C I thought the regeneration was starting, but all the times the temperature stayed that high only for some seconds, maybe a couple of minutes, and then back to ~200ish range.

When the dpf charge reached ~75%, p2452 turned on again, just to disappear the next day.

Currently dpf charge is at 82% and no engine failure.

In 200km it will reach 100% (following my estimations).

If my problem is the dpf pressure sensor I will expect to have an engine error constantly on, or if works from time to time, regenerations could be run.

Dpf charge value should be ok, because the ECU checks that it's estimated value makes sense with the pressure sensor, if not, p1206 or p2002 should be reported (taken from a Fiat communication to workshops, found on the fiatforum).

So, to sum up, dpf is not doing regenerations and sooner it will be completely full.
Looks like it tries, but can't get hot enough.

Any ideas?

Monday going to a workshop, but my expectations are not very high.

(Excuse me for the looooong post)
 

Deneb

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Just a couple of observations.

What distance have you travelled since you left the workshop? Regenerations take place on average roughly every 1500km on Euro 5/5+ in my experience. The vehicle should raise the DPF temperature to around 600- 650C when performing a regeneration.

The percentage DPF mass value value as reported by diagnostics is misleading. The reported states are:
- between 0% and 30% (Particulate filter status: NOT CLOGGED)
- between 30% and 120% (NORMAL CLOGGING)
- between 120% and 200% (FILTER CLOGGED)
- > 200% (TO BE REGENERATED)

In other words, 100% clogged or even 120% clogged is considered a normal operating value and does not necessarily mean that a regeneration should have been initiated before that point.

Diagnostic equipment can report the average distance between regenerations, distance since the last complete regeneration and other data. If the vehicle has not yet travelled substantially further than the average recorded distance between previous regenerations it is probably too soon to be concerned that they are not happening.

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adrianlzt

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Thanks for the quick response Deneb.

Wow, I haven't thought for a second that DPF charge 100% could no mean, DPF full.

My reference for the time between regenerations was from Service News VERSIONS X250 MY2011 EuroV Main technical specifications, where they said Regeneration occurs in average every 800/1000 km. But the only regeneration I have done is forced in the workshop, so currently your numbers match better than those in the guide.

Since the last forced regeneration at the workshop, I have done 1423 km, and currently DPF charge is at 82.1%.

If the increase ratio is kept (5%/100km), I will have to do another 2358 km (3781 km in total) to reach 200%.

To reach 100% I have to do 358km more, being a total of 1781km since the last regeneration.

I have been trying to find that percentage level when the regeneration is triggered.
Here and here they said that regeneration is done when 45% is reached, but those are generic responses, nothing Fiat specific.

Then, my mechanic incorrectly forced the regeneration right? Because at that moment the DPF was at 80%.
Is this something Fiat specific?

Thanks again!
 

Deneb

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Distances between regenerations will be affected by various influences, so it's not possible to be exact. I don't think Torque has the ability, but MultiEcuScan or AlfaOBD can display ECU parameters including average distance between regenerations, mileage at last regeneration, current DPF state and numerous other readings. You can also track live values from the sensors which might indicate an inaccurate reading for example, and the conditions at the time a fault is generated.

I think you are overthinking this at the moment. If the fault clears itself it is intermittent, which makes it more difficult to diagnose unless the data is still stored when diagnostics are connected. A faulty pressure sensor is not uncommon and might be a relatively cheap fix. Otherwise you'd need to see what the ECU parameters are reporting for clues.
 

adrianlzt

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I have trying to connect with MultiEcuScan or AlfaOBD but looks like my cheap ELM327 is not compatible.

I will just keep an eye on the DPF charge reported by Torque and hopes it regenerates in the next few hundred kilometers.

The DPF pressure sensor was changed less than two months ago with this one from Hella. I guess that one is not considered a good one (looking at the price).
So I guess that could be the source of the intermitent ECU errors.

I will update when the regeneration finally takes place.

Thanks again Deneb

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adrianlzt

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Regeneration, finally!

I didn't see when the regeneration happened, but should be around 90% of DPF clogging and after 1600km since the last regeneration.

Still having some problems with the connectour though, two days ago it had, for a few hours, P2452, P2453 and P2454.

Thanks for the info!
 

adrianlzt

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Almost two months with P2452 always on I think it's time to try to fix it.
Yesterday, in one official Fiat garage, they connected the diagnosis (wiTECH Plus) and the code P2452-11 was active (short to ground).

I have been today under the van looking closely to the differential pressure sensor, trying to follow this troubleshooting guide (from Jeep).
Voltage and resistances are correct (just measured in the sensor connector).
Next step is to measure between the sensor connector and the ecu connector, but I cannot find the wiring schema for DPF.
The eLearn available in fiatforum.com is for older x250 without DPF.
I have tried to follow the wires but at some point it's impossible to follow.

Some guidance how to make the wiring testing will be much appreciated!
 

PeteH

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Fix It Again Tomorrow.!. But seriously, DPF regeneration is a Minefield, we first came across it on a Chevrolet Orlando Car we had. We where warned not to let it become clogged as replacement was over a Grand!. Recommendation was MIN 20min at anything above 2300rpm. My X250 Ducato did not have one (2007). But the current Mercedes has, so I am watching like a hawk!.

The Ducato EGR valves where changed, the originals got water damage due to their location/orientation. But the replacement needed an Expensive Loom conversion!.

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TheBig1

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Fix It Again Tomorrow.!. But seriously, DPF regeneration is a Minefield, we first came across it on a Chevrolet Orlando Car we had. We where warned not to let it become clogged as replacement was over a Grand!. Recommendation was MIN 20min at anything above 2300rpm. My X250 Ducato did not have one (2007). But the current Mercedes has, so I am watching like a hawk!.

The Ducato EGR valves where changed, the originals got water damage due to their location/orientation. But the replacement needed an Expensive Loom conversion!.
The same parts are much cheaper online, like the conversion loom for the new design EGR and throttle body under £20
 

adrianlzt

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I think we don't have problems directly with the DPF. It looks like it's doing its job correctly.
AFAIK motorhomes should not have problems with clogging the DPF as we don't normally make a lot of small stops (<20')

What I hate is not having the all the info to understand what's happening. I would love an open source car ::bigsmile:
 

adrianlzt

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Bought MES and DPF sensor most of the time returns 0 mbar. Just once, with the motor stopped it was showing around 30 mbar, but running it always shows 0 mbar.

I have removed it, it's a maXgear 210372. It had some water inside (saw it when trying to pump air to test it).
With the multimeter I saw a constant value of 4.3v, indifferent if I apply pressure or not.

I'm looking to buy a replacement (btw, this PDF has all the different types of DPF sensors, with its connectors, voltage and pressure ranges).
The original one is 55210304
1602575594603.png

But the one I currently have (the maxgear) have a different shape.
1602575669619.png

In some web pages (for example) it is said that its a replacement for 55210304.
Also, before in this thread OldAgeTravellers uploaded a photo showing a replacement for 55210304 with the same shape as the maxgear (bresch 413422).

That Bresch replacement shows compatibility with FIAT 9662143180. Looking for that code shows a lot of other brands with that exactly shape.

So, 55210304 is being replaced with 9662143180? How could it be a replacement with a different shape and different anchor system (just one bolt)?
Does anyone have a photo of the 55210304 in place? Because I cannot imagine how could I fit that one.

Since 2014 the new DPF sensor is 51908411, that looks similar to 9662143180, but it's completely different (different connector, different post-filter hose size and bolt in other place)
1602577073202.png



P.S.: the hoses are connected to the sensor with clic-r clamps, they are easy to open with a flat screwdrive, but hard to close without the appropiate tool. I was able to close it using a needle pliers and a washer

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adrianlzt

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Well, after replacing it with a Hella spare part, clearing the DTCs and use MES to tell the ECU about the change, everything is working fine.
We have done ~600km and the light hasn't appear.
Now we have the oil change light, but well, that's probably because of the many generations done in the last months.

Thanks for all the info!
 

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